Doubts and Discussions from the Ramayan II

First Previous

Page

Next Last

Frequent Posters

Khalrika

@Khalrika

Voyager

Posted: 15 years ago

#701

Originally posted by: Vibhishna
This week the episodes of Indrajeet's funeral and Sage Aghasthya teaching Ram the Aditya Hrudaya Stotra. When I read the Valmiki Ramayana and the Kambaramayana, both the versions mention Indrajeet was brave and courageous and fought well. Does any version idolise this Demon Prince? Does any version mention that he met his father before plunging into his last battle? I was wondering if Ihad missed reading anything.

Vibs, I remember (vaguely) seeing something like that in a Tamil Ramayan movie or play or something like that. I will check.

Quote

Vibhishna

@Vibhishna

Dazzler

+ 3

Posted: 15 years ago

#702

Originally posted by: Khalrika

Vibs, I remember (vaguely) seeing something like that in a Tamil Ramayan movie or play or something like that. I will check.

Thank you.

Almost all movie, drama or folk tale has that bit. But I was wondering if there was any written version that speaks of this incident be it a novel or drama.

When I was small I heard a story in which Indrajeet hides underwater and Lakshman goes in search of him - very similar to Bheem - Duryodhan last battle. I was wondering where that came up from till I heard the stroy of Mahabharat.

Quote

Looks like you are new here. Register for free, learn and contribute.

Khalrika

@Khalrika

Voyager

Posted: 15 years ago

#703

Originally posted by: Vibhishna
This week the episodes of Indrajeet's funeral and Sage Aghasthya teaching Ram the Aditya Hrudaya Stotra.

When I read the Valmiki Ramayana and the Kambaramayana, both the versions mention Indrajeet was brave and courageous and fought well. Does any version idolise this Demon Prince? Does any version mention that he met his father before plunging into his last battle?

I was wondering if Ihad missed reading anything.

Vibs, All the versions that I checked do not have Indrajit visiting his father before he dies in battle. I have seen this scene in other Ramayan movies though.

The Valmiki Ramyan does wax eloquent on the fighting prowess of Indrajit.

U know in Valmiki Ramayan, Lakshman falls to the ground dead after Ravan's arrows pierce him and not Indrajit's. Then Hanuman brings the sunjeevani. Why are all the movie versions showing it as Indrajit hitting Lakshman.

I hope this helps Vibs.

Quote

Vrish

@Vr15h

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 15 years ago

#704

Originally posted by: Khalrika

The Valmiki Ramyan does wax eloquent on the fighting prowess of Indrajit.

U know in Valmiki Ramayan, Lakshman falls to the ground dead after Ravan's arrows pierce him and not Indrajit's. Then Hanuman brings the sunjeevani. Why are all the movie versions showing it as Indrajit hitting Lakshman.

I hope this helps Vibs.

Khalrika

All movie versions seem to go by Tulsidas, which has Indrajit downing Lakshman w/ the Shakti, and that too pretty early in the war, b4 even Kumbhakarna is killed. His attack on Rama & Lakshman w/ the Naagaash comes later, followed by the interruption of his yagna. I wonder whether Adhyatma has the same account, since Tulsidas sources from there, not Valmiki.

Another titbit was that in that final battle that resulted in Indrajit's death, Vibhishan was actually a combatant, not a mere spectator. In 6:89, he kills several rakshashas (verses 1-6) and in 6:90, he kills Indrajit's horses (verse 42). One thing I don't admire about Vibhishan here - he was one of several warriors combatting Indrajit, instead of a mano-a-mano battle w/ him. When Indrajit hurled a javelin @ Vibhishan, it was Lakshman who broke it, but Vibhishan managed to pierce Meghnad w/ 5 arrows. It was in response to that that Indrajit hurled the Yamastra @ Vibhishan, and Lakshman intercepted it w/ an arrow given to him by Kubera (Agniastra is not mentioned). Both neutralized each other in flight.

So Vibhishan was very much a combatant, but reading about how he fought, seemingly not much of a warrior. This flies in the face of depictions that have him mourning Indrajit's death. He did mourn Ravan's death, but he's not reported to have mourned anyone else. I can believe he mourned Kumbhakarna, but not Indrajit.

Edited by Vrisha - 15 years ago

Quote

Khalrika

@Khalrika

Voyager

Posted: 15 years ago

#705

Thnx Vrisha. When researching for Vibs I was shocked to read that Lakshman fell like dead because of Ravan's javelin and not because of Indrajit according to Valmiki. After reading your post I now know that Vibishan did fight even if he wasn't very effective.

I have the Tulsi Ramayan but I haven't opened it yet. Need to start looking at it sometime! 😃
😆

Quote

Janaki

@RamKiSeeta

Achiever

+ 6

Posted: 15 years ago

#706

Thanks for the information Vrisha. I too remember reading in Valmiki Ramayana that Lakshman fell down because of Ravan's javelin and not Meghnad's Shakti.

But for some reason I feel that Indrajit and Lakshman's final battle in Valmiki Ramayana is interpolated in some way, because if Indrajit was really only replying to Vibhishan's five arrows and not fighting unethically, then it would be considered wrong for Lakshman to intervene between the two warriors, wouldn't it? He should have let Vibhishan answer to Indrajit's weapon himself.

This interference of Lakshman would be considered wrong by the War Ethics Lord Krishna drew out in the Kurukshetra War, and since I do not believe either Ramji or Lakshmanji fought unethically even once in Ramayan, I cannot believe this event happened how it is written in Valmiki Ramayan. Tulsidasji's version makes more sense.

Quote

Vrish

@Vr15h

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 15 years ago

#707

It would not be considered unethical in war for one warrior to save another warrior on his same side from getting killed - like in the Kurukshetra war, Bhima intervening to save Dhrishtadyumna from being killed by Drona, or Arjun cutting off Bhurishrava's hand before he's about to kill Satyaki w/ his sword.

Lakshman would have been unethical had he taken advantage of Indrajit's preoccupation w/ Vibhishan to kill him or wound him. But intercepting a weapon that Lakshman knew that Vibhishan had no answer to was not unethical - under the rules of warfare, it was always okay for warriors of one side to save other warriors on their own side from being killed. Also, since Indrajit launched his battle against not just Lakshman but all the major warriors, including Vibhishan, this assault on him wasn't exactly equivalent to, say, the Kauravas surrounding Abhimanyu and killing him, since Abhimanyu was engaged in single warrior combat, while Indrajit wasn't.

Quote

Vibhishna

@Vibhishna

Dazzler

+ 3

Posted: 15 years ago

#708

Thanks Vrisha, Khalrika for the information.

I knew Lakshman swooned in the field hit by Ravan's Shakthi which was intended for Vibhishan actually. I read that Vibhishan killed Ravan's horses and this triggered Ravan to unleash the Shakthi upon his brother. Even I was shocked when I first read the translation that it was Ravan who wounded Lakshman so grievously.

Also, in the Kambaramayanam, more importance is given to Indrajeet hitting Lakshman with the Brahmastra than Lakshman being hit with the Shakthi. Even in the Nagapasha episode, it is only Lakshman who is hit and faints in the field. In all the three instances, (Lakshman being hit with the Nagapaasha, the Brahmastra and the Shakthi) Ram was not in the battlefield. Pages are devoted to how much Ram cares for his brother and how much devastated he was when Lakshman was hit. But when Lakshman was hit by the Shakthi, Hanuman brings the herbs by himself on the counsel of Jambavan and all of them revive Lakshman and return to Ram with him.

Even in Valmiki Ramayan, I remember reading Hanuman going after the herbs twice - Vishalyakarani in the Gandhamadhan or Gandhamana Mountains and Sanjeevani in the Dronagiri.

In the Kambaramayanam, Vibhishan as far as I know does not take part in the fighting.

I wonder in which version does Indrajeet meet his father before his death and advice him . . .

Quote

Khalrika

@Khalrika

Voyager

Posted: 15 years ago

#709

Originally posted by: Vibhishna
Thanks Vrisha, Khalrika for the information.

I knew Lakshman swooned in the field hit by Ravan's Shakthi which was intended for Vibhishan actually. I read that Vibhishan killed Ravan's horses and this triggered Ravan to unleash the Shakthi upon his brother. Even I was shocked when I first read the translation that it was Ravan who wounded Lakshman so grievously.

Also, in the Kambaramayanam, more importance is given to Indrajeet hitting Lakshman with the Brahmastra than Lakshman being hit with the Shakthi. Even in the Nagapasha episode, it is only Lakshman who is hit and faints in the field. In all the three instances, (Lakshman being hit with the Nagapaasha, the Brahmastra and the Shakthi) Ram was not in the battlefield. Pages are devoted to how much Ram cares for his brother and how much devastated he was when Lakshman was hit. But when Lakshman was hit by the Shakthi, Hanuman brings the herbs by himself on the counsel of Jambavan and all of them revive Lakshman and return to Ram with him.

Even in Valmiki Ramayan, I remember reading Hanuman going after the herbs twice - Vishalyakarani in the Gandhamadhan or Gandhamana Mountains and Sanjeevani in the Dronagiri.

In the Kambaramayanam, Vibhishan as far as I know does not take part in the fighting.

I wonder in which version does Indrajeet meet his father before his death and advice him . . .

Yes Vibs, I just read in the Valmiki Ramayan too that Hanuman goes twice to get the herbs. I also found that Susena is a monkey and not Ravan's Rajavaidh as shown by the Sagars. I wonder which version has Susena as Ravan's doctor?

As far as Indrajeet meeting his dad before his death...it was not mentioned in the Adhyatma or even Ananda. Is this version found in Tulsi Ramayan?

Quote

Vibhishna

@Vibhishna

Dazzler

+ 3

Posted: 15 years ago

#710

Originally posted by: Khalrika

Yes Vibs, I just read in the Valmiki Ramayan too that Hanuman goes twice to get the herbs. I also found that Susena is a monkey and not Ravan's Rajavaidh as shown by the Sagars. I wonder which version has Susena as Ravan's doctor?

As far as Indrajeet meeting his dad before his death...it was not mentioned in the Adhyatma or even Ananda. Is this version found in Tulsi Ramayan?

Yes, and Sushen had been by Lakshman's side when he had been hurt and Hanuman did not have to fetch him from anywhere. I too wondered where that bit came from.

I remember reading somewhere that Sushen was Tara's father (that makes him Vali's father-in-law) but I don't know how true it is.

Also Hanuman's father Kesari aided this campaign with his own army and he too participated in the war. I think Kesari was the king of a province called Sumer - not sure about this.

In Jai Hanuman, they showed a different story from what we have seen in NDTVI Ramayan. Here they showed that Vali was the reason for the death of Mayavi's wife. In Jai Hanuman Mayavi seeks Vali for killing his brother Dhundubi. And as per this story, it was Ravan who sent Dhundubi to kill Vali.

The story of Jai Hanuman is so different. 😕

Edited by Vibhishna - 15 years ago

Quote

1 ... 69 70 71 72 73 ... 83

Doubts and Discussions from the Ramayan II - Page 71

Related Topics

Explore Topics