Weekly Analysys Thread: Shaadi Saptah Week - Page 4

Hi Shyamala Aunty,

i know you won't have time to respond, but just thought I would give my two bits, since I'm one of those who doesn't believe Jodha owes anything to Jalal at the moment...There will come a time when she will, but for now...my responses are in italics.

Enjoy your weekend...

Sonya

Originally posted by: sashashyam

No, Mansi, it is not a flaw in perception, for once a story is out in the public domain, each reader/viewer has the right to make it his/her own. But when commenting on the plausibility of a period film, the period is relevant. You cannot insert a 21st century feminist attitude into Jodha Akbar. This, I add, is NOT about you, but about a trend in the forum.

But, are we not just in the mere fact of producing and making a show in the 21st century putting a twist into the actual reality of events as they were 500 ish years ago. I do not think that we want to see what the reality was actually like, because then it would have been as you said "marching her into the shaadi" , forcing to get married without her Sharta, and then her submitting to Jalal in whatever way he wants. We can't have it both ways .. where we want Jodha to be this amazing girl who is strong, respectful, courageous and then have her be dutiful with Jalal when he's the worst person in the world to her. I think its way too much to ask of her at this stage, and Aunty, haven't you seen enough arranged marriages in your day in age where the woman is passive, submissive and doesn't really show too much emotion during the wedding celebrations and yet the male is strutting around like a ...(I can't find any suitable words that aren't R rated...lol). Why was her behavior so uncalled for. She fed him, albeit I see your point that she could have at least looked at him, but still she did everything properly. Jalal used the singing tactic, and i'm not entirely convinced that he wasn't going to do it to begin with...did you see the look he gave her when he first walked in.

I am not a romantic, but in my far off youth, I would any day have liked a Rhett Butler or a Jalal to tame better than a soft chap blindly in love with me. And I would have managed it too. A woman should know how to handle any man, no matter how tough he seems.

But Jodha doesn't want anything to do with him. Its one thing if you are living in a house and don't have the freedom to be too far away from your husband for prolonged periods of time, however; in this case, Jodha has her own room, she lives far enough way from Jalal where she doesn't have to see him too often unless he chooses to see her and she is content with that. She doesn't want him sharing her bed, she doesn't wnat him near her, and in fact, everything that she has heard about his Harem and seen has just added more disgust for him to her.

Jodha seems to me singularly lacking in any feminine finesse in the way she handles sticky situations. Burning that shaadi ka joda was more like a fishwife than like a dignified princess. Now she behaves like an ice maiden in public. It was atrocious of him to drag her into the middle of the halla and force her to sing, but she provokes it to some extent, and provides the fertile soil in which Ruqaiya plants her poisonous seeds.

The burning of the lengha...a little too much IMO, but the way she behaved as hte ICE Maiden as you so eloquently put it...I LOVED IT. I have to disagree with you on this point...she was fabulous, and this demeanor of hers, is going to cause troubles for her for sure, but the wayshe comes out of them each adn every time is going to ultimately gain her jalal's respect. She has to have his respect first, before anything can happen, because its only once HE respects her that she will see him as a good ruler and good human being and then she can respect him. out of that Respect - we will start to see glimpses of passion and love.

The problem with Jodha is that, when it comes to Jalal, she insists on behaving like a martyr, and not on trying to handle the situation she has been landed with practically. She does just fine with everyone else, from Hamida Banu to Ruqaiya.

But when it comes to Jalal, she inexplicably loses all that finesse. Why is this so? Even if she hates Jalal's guts. need she show it so openly? What possible purpose can it serve? She seems to think she owes him nothing, not even a modicum of good behaviour in public. It is most emphatically not so.

Where was the bad behavior though? He started the game with grabbing her hand and forcing her to sing...she finished it.

All she seems to know is to prate about getting his kataa hua sar, and yet when she sees that pile of dead soldiers whom Jalal has killed in combat, she acts as though she has never seen a dead body in her life!

And what is it about people saying that she owes this is marriage nothing? She damn well owes it an awful lot, starting with lives of her 3 brothers and going on the survival of Amer as a whole. That Jalal does if for his own reasons changes nothing about what the Amer royals owe him. Talk of ingratitude!

Why do her actions have anything to do with the survival of Amer. Jalal gave his WORD to Raja Bharmal that he could have and rule over Amer if he gave his daughter to him. Nothing in that agreement stated that Jodha has to be respectful towards him, to act nice to him...she will honor her duty to him, but IMO her duty doesnt' supercede her feelings. She should not be forced, no one should be forced, to put aside their disgust of the situation adn just make the best of it, when the situation is so grotesque to begin with. And this situation, whether we want to believe it or not, is evil incarnate. Jodha being given to Jalal...a devils bargain. And now Jalal as well as Jodha must live with teh cards they have been dealt with. If Jodha has to make due, then Jalal also has to make do...and that means dealing with an unhappy, unwilling wife. Its goes both ways. And the survival of Amer was for her to marry him...nothing after that. I do not think there is anyway that Jodha's behavior now will force Jalal's hand in attacking Amer...would go against his own principles IMO when he gave his word.

Look, while you are working out the Six Stages on the Way to Love for Jalal, why don't you try your hand at the same thing for Jodha? Methinks she needs a good primer even more than Jalal!😉 Or else an asture female adviser, and not Motibai. I cannot see any candidate on the horizon, more is the pity.

Shyamala

Pheww my net is back 😃...

Mansi and everyone fabulous takes for the weekend 👏👏👏 .. Mansi I totally agree with your prediction and OMGG the new breathtaking promo has left me speechless .. its so damn passionate and the sexual tension in Jalal as well as Jodha's eyes amidst of all the hatred was so damn evident na .. Its almost like Jalal wants her badly but at the same time he just cannot force himself on her against her wish since that goes against his own principles and so he feels by scaring her , she might give in but she wont and thats driving Jalal all mad 😉😳😳 .. The whole promo reminds me of beauty and the beast novel .. Jalal is the beast right now while Jodha the perfect beauty 😛


Coming to this week's episode , what to say .. I hv no complaints .. whether its the perfect pace or the grand Jalal-Jodha wedding without any OTT gimmicks , everything was simply flawless and perfect with no dragging at all ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ ..I thought marriage will b filled with OTT ekta style wedding filled with too many twist and turns or item numbers 😆 but it was nothing like that .. it was grand and classy plus Ekta dint drag the wedding forever 😲.. it got over in 15 mins but everything in detail thats needed to b shown was shown and the best thing was main focus was on the actual marriage details like pheras or hand giving or sindoor thing and not on other gimmicks 👏👏...I liked that scene where during the kanyadan, Jalal grabs Jodha's hand with his two hands ,almost like claiming his authority on her and then giving that wicked smirk to check out her reactions 😳😳


I even loved the Monday-tuesday episode before the marriage which focussed on Jalal-Jodha Muhdikhai followed by Jodha putting up her two conditions in front of him 👍🏼...The Muhdikhai was obviously a good loop closure since first time Jodha saw his enemy Jalal's reflection in water and got terrified , and today again Jodha sees her future lifepartner Jalal's reflection in water and gets terrified once again ... Water sort of symbolises purity too which somewhere indicates that this union of both is pure and divine decided by the Almighty only 😳😳...


It was quite fun to see how everytime Jalal does the unexpected and gives shock to both Mahamanga and her useless Son 😆😆 .. Everyone thought Jalal will break this marriage after Jodha burns that marriage costume , Mahamanga even started celebrating for another war which her useless son will lead once the marriage breaks 😆😆 but to Mahamanga's biggest disappointment and shock , Jalal comes with a smart excuse of if I call off the marriage , then Rajputs ka self respect will win and so I got to marry her to make sure we win 😉😆 .. He uses this same excuse to instantly agree with those two conditions of Jodha once again and this time giving shock not only to Mahamanga but also to Jodha 😆😆 ...Jalal is using this excuse for every damn thing but the truth we know well .. he himself is desperate to marry her 😆 .. So far he could use the excuse of marrying Jodha at any cost to make sure Rajputs bow down to him but now that marriage is over , that excuse wont work anymore because everyone will expect Jodha to bow down in front of shehenshah but so far opposite is happening as its Jalal who has to go to her room repeatedly with desperation and frustration combined 😉😆😆


My most favourite moment got to b the one when Jalal comes from behind and Jodha in her self defence takes the sword in her hand when Jalal grabs her hand and comes passionately close to her to wisper in her ears regarding how he just enjoys that fear on her face .. Ishhh ☺️☺️☺️...The background music of Ishqq went fabulously with the whole scene .. it looked classic and what amazing chemistry Rajat and Paridhi has .. mu goshhh 👏👏👏😳... I loved the way Jodha was a atta girl there who dint give up in fear but went onto remind Jalal the vachans(vows) he took during marriage and according to those vows she is not his servant who will go in front of his court just because he called her .. he has to take her with full respect and dignity whenever he wishes her to b present in court .. wowww u go Jodha .. show the women power to Mughals here ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️... Jalal might change the whole discussion to how he enjoys seeing fear in her eyes for him but somewhere he too knew that Jodha was spot on with her reason of why she dint come out 😉😛... This scene simply nails the breathtaking and passionate chemistry display between two actors and gives a clear indication of how future scenes r going to b extra passionate and intense as the sexual tension from both sides will keep growing ☺️☺️☺️☺️ even though both might remain in denial due to their own respective egos 😛


I also loved the whole Hamida banu and Jodha scene after they reach Mahal .. Loved the way Hamida banu welcomes Jodha in such a grand manner which pisses off Mahamanga 😆😆.. She is a perfect example of a good and modern Mother-in-law who knows how to show love , humility and respect to her new daughter-in-law 👍🏼 .. I think Hamida Banu was really happy with the fact that Jodha is open and honest about what Jalal lacks in life because while everyone else is busy seeing what all he has , u hv someone like Jodha who sees what all he lacks 😳 .. So I guess pointing out the negatives of Jalal made Hamida really happy since now she hopes that someone will give a reality chk to my son and not really praise him even for his negatives just to b in his good books 😳 ..


I feel its high time Ruquaiyya gives the Harem hot seat to Jodha now since she can handle the Harem issues better than Ruqaiyya 😆 and might soon become not only Jalal's favourite begum but also the favourite of other ladies in that Harem because unlike Ruqaiyya , obviously Jodha wont treat other ladies like some piece of flesh 😳 .. I do see Ruquaiyya fall soon here due to her own arrogence and insecurity


Jodha singing that song in Rajput's honour might hv been a bit over exaggerated scene but I sort of loved it since for the first time someone dared to give a big time shocker to Jalal in his own territory and he could do nothing but just feel pissed off since he too knows Jodha did nothing wrong 😛👍🏼 ..In fact Jodha did something which is morally right since she is only praising her Rajput religion and telling the courageous stories of her Rajput community , so even if it pisses off Jalal , he cannot really say she is wrong 😎 .. I guess Jalal expected her to sing something praising Shehenshah or Mughals as ruler but she sang something based on how Rajputs never bow their head down in front of anyone and always look up to the challenge at every walk of life .. .. so that has offended jalal because he assumes with this marriage their head is forever down .. He might later realise that Jodha is being honest here and not pleasing anyone like his other begums since its natural for her to keep prestige of her religion intact by praising it .. Somewhere this scene indicates that it will b war of principles between both and everytime Jalal will see Jodha is spot on with her views whether he likes it or not and she is not even afraid to openly tell her views either 👏👏... In short slowly Jalal will realise that finally he found his equal in Jodha and thats when the realisation of love too will come in 😃...


Coming to friday's precap , I agree with Mansi's prediciton , everyone outside from Mahamanga to Ruquaiyya might b in panicdriven state after Jalal enters Jodha's room in drunk state 😆 but the reality will b nothing will happen 😆 since Jalal might pass out and then Jodha might just put a blanket over him to show some caring gesture as a wife which next morning will touch Jalal emotionally once he comes back to his senses 😳 .. The new promo might also play out same night with Jalal pinning Jodha against the wall passionately and telling her he can do anything with her 😉 but after those dialogues , he might simply pass out on Jodha's bed 😆...😛


Overall this whole week has been paisa vasool with the best wedding shown on TV after a long time and it seems coming week too we will hv lots of spicy Jalal-Jodha scenes as per the new hot promo 😛...

Right now I find both Jalal and Jodha right as well as wrong .,. they both hv their positives and negatives too and thats what make them both human 😃

Jalal is brought up under the likes of Bairam khan and Mahamanga who always taught him to take decisions like a ruthless king and never listen to your heart .. he has grown up that way and so at times few of his decisions comes out looking too harsh and filled with arrogence but on the positive side , he has always stuck to his principles and he never forgets to payback if he is indebted to someone ...

Jodha is brought up under lots of love and care .. she has been taught to take decisions like a Rajput queen whose heart and mind both should b active while making any major decision .. she is more caring and emotional which at times also becomes her biggest weakness since those same emotions makes her forget that she is a Rajput queen too for whom the kingdom's honour should come before her own loss .. But on positive side , we know these same emotions will later tranform ruthless Jalal into a loving Akbar ..isn't it 😳

I dee both Jalal and Jodha as two opposite sides of same coin .. once both comes together , they will b a real power to reckon with 😎

it just feels like that when jalal saw jodha for the first time there was attraction and admiration and a want to have her as his..i have never seen jalal look at any woman like that not even ruku,even after all the episodes we have had...but after jodha put a sword to jalal's neck the admiration though being there was replaced by the over abundant ego that jalal already has and so even if he feels smthing for her he will never let himself acknowledge it and even if his heart does acknowledge it he will brush it off and start blaming jodha and trying to torture her although more.

Jyoti:

No, my dear, what I am expecting is a coolly dignified princess who could perhaps, just perhaps, have made even Jalal feel like a caterpillar. She can detest him all she wants, but she has to be dignified about it . It is first thing royalty if taught, to be dignified under any and all circumstances.

I do not see where Jalal 'plundered their kingdom'; if he had really sacked it as happened often in those days, as when Alauddin Khilji took Chittor in the days of Rani Padmini, there would have been nothing left of Amer. Sharifuddin is like a blackmailer asking for more and more money, and I am still wondering if that was a calculated ploy to drive Bharmal to meet Jalal.

It is perfectly all right for you to be a Jodha-phile, but I am not one. I praise her when I feel that she and/or Paridhi, deserve praise, and you are of course at liberty to disagree with me on that or indeed on anything else! But I stay on my course.

The film was beautiful in the way they showed the transition to mutual love. I am not at all sure it is going to be as well handled here, and the more extreme the reactions they show now, the harder it will be for the CVs to make that transition gracefully and convincingly. I am mentally prepared for it to plummet suddenly in quality.

Shyamala B.Cowsik

Originally posted by: blahblah26

Shyamala Ma'am:
With all due respect, you always seem to be too harsh on Jodha. You seem to be expecting a typical Ekta kapoor sacrifical lead.You seem to have too high expectations from someone who's lost her finance(didn't love but cared a lot about), whos sense of pride in being a Rajput has received a severe bashing, and she is married to the man she despises the most. Let's assume her hatred for him is totally and completely justified. Her entire life has changed. Her dreams shattered. She has led a sheltered life, a safe upbringing. Now she has to completely change herself, her way if thinking, her way of life. On top it of she is married to a Monster(from her point of view). Granted, that it is based on hearsay but wasn't that how all their conclusions were based in those times? There were no televisions, radios to tell the truth. And honestly she hasn't said anything that wrong. He did cut off people's legs. Accosting married women in a market? The reputation of the woman is ruined forever. And Rajputs were known to always fight fair no matter what the situation. And that sense of fairness was disgusted to see the Mughal Emperor come in diguise. He plundered their kingdom after his win.
He probably is to her what Osama Bin Laden is to us.
Of course, she firsthand received her share of his benevolence when he agreed to her conditions, agreed to the hindu marriage ceremonies etc. But isn't it human nature that when we're once convinced about something, once we take a stand we refuse to budge from it no matter how many proofs say otherwise.
I'm not saying she's without blame. The dress burning made me cringe.
She may come across as whiny sometimes, but it's pretty easy to sit here and comment completely anoter thing to actually be in that situation. Atleast she sems human. Give her time and once she sees Jalal's supposedly non-existent heart she will berate hrself for thinking the worst of him.

You are right, Sonya, but what I do not have is the energy to respond - I have just got back from the doctor's and I am rather tired. And secondly,my dear, we are so opposed to each other on everything that I do not see any room for or point in a dialogue at all! So be happy with your take on this, and as there are many Jodha-philes here, you will have plenty of company. You do not need me!😉

Take care.

Shyamala Aunty

Originally posted by: SonyaBlade

Hi Shyamala Aunty,

i know you won't have time to respond, but just thought I would give my two bits, since I'm one of those who doesn't believe Jodha owes anything to Jalal at the moment...There will come a time when she will, but for now...my responses are in italics.

Enjoy your weekend...

Sonya

My dear, I do not know if anyone else is getting het up, but I am always relaxed, and then again, I see no point in getting agitated about a TV serial, no matter how interesting it is at the moment.

Just one point, re: Jalal has been slowly changing since he met Jodha, she calms him down, makes him amused and happy. This will come, for sure, but we are not there yet, surely? And as for Jodha is more dignified and mature since she came to the harem, she was always that even earlier - remember the scene with Ruqaiya about the jaziya, where she was very cool and trumped Ruqaiya completely, and earlier with the chunariwali?

She is the same now with Hamida Banu and Mahaam Anga and Ruqaiya, in fact with everyone except Jalal. She is not able to be cool and dignified and at the same time polite and proper with him, which should be possible even if she detests him, as she has every right to do. That is pretty much the sole point on which I criticise her. Otherwise, my heart goes out to the poor kid, marooned in a sea infested by sharks. But she has to learn to handle it practically, not emotionally, and find cards of her own to play against the likes of Ruqaiya. She is fully capable of it, see the way she handles the second hand gift she gets from her!

Shyamala Aunty

Originally posted by: Stargirl06

Alright, alright. Everyone relax. Both the leads are flawed, complex individuals. Both of them have made a mess of things alternately. can we please appreciate it, without analyzing "who sinned less"? 😆 Because they are, after all a team. If Jalal has a bit of a vicious edge, then Jodha is often immature too. Both of them have faults of their own. And both of them will emerge as a stronger, better unit together. Isn't that the golden rule of a great relationship? Be with a person who makes you stronger? Who makes you better? Who conceals your flaws? And that process is already going on. Jalal has been slowly changing since he met Jodha, she calms him down, makes him amused and happy. Jodha is more dignified and mature since she came to the harem. They make each other better. They are better as individuals when under the influence of one another. And that only says good things about a relationship.

Mansi,

As for @blue, you have perhaps not read my very first post in this forum, on June 30, 2013. In that one. called Ekta's Emperor Jalaluddin Mohammed: An assessment , which is at

https://www.indiaforums.com/forum/jodha-akbar/3647623/ektas-emperor-jalaluddin-mohammed-an-assessment

I had noted in my summing up at the end:

"He is now part an arrogant warrior, used to victory, and part an impulsive young man, following a desire of the heart that he does not as yet understand, and struggling with unfamiliar emotions".

More recently, I wrote somewhere about the strange pull that made him risk that dangerous trip to Amer, driven by the desire to see this registan ka gulab that he had only heard of.

So, you see, you are now, re: Jalal's dil, attributing to me positions that are not mine, and were not mine even 6 weeks ago. But when you say that it was his heart that took him to Amer, you do not mean his hidden love for Jodha, do you? I am sure not.

Nor have I said anywhere that Jodha is weak. It is rather that to my mind, she is not practical and clever in making the best of the situation she is in. Plus she is often childish. She reacts impulsively and excessively, and in the process jeopardises the interests of her people, if not her own. After listening to that clear warning from her mother, she comes out and burns that dress. She tries to get out of the marriage thru the sharts, without thinking thru what would happen to Amer if Jalal lost interest in it after giving up the idea of marrying her, and left them to Sharifuddin to handle. None of this jells with her stated determination to do whatever it takes to save Amer.

You are of course free to attribute all of Jalal's actions to his heart, and to try to see whether beneath the overt actions of Jalal and his intellectualising of the situations, his heart is involved.

I am sure once you look at everything that happens from that perspective, it might well seem to be so. That is the beauty of interpretation, always provided one does not disregard inconvenient facts and begin to fit the facts to a pre-conceived theory. I am sure you are too clearheaded an analyst to do that.

I agree, as I have noted in my post above about your 6 stages for Jalal, that Jodha's heart has not been touched as yet, and that was why I suggested that you identify 6 stages for her as well.

I do know what to say about Jodha's hatred of Jalal, except that like her Jalal ka sar mantra, which I found not merely off-putting but hardly flattering to her intelligence, it is an axiom for her, which she does not see any need to analyse or qualify.Even Motibai seems to be more analytical about this than her mistress.

The track they seem to be following now seems likely to only make it worse. But how can she be pro-active in her hatred, do you think? She could not have stabbed her suhaag with that khanjar, for one thing, even if she could have managed it physically.

He is no longer just an enemy on whom she can safely wreak vengeance any way she can. He is the patidev whom she has married before the sacred agni, and her conditioning would no longer permit her to do anything to hurt him actively. She is not like the Roman damsel who married Attila the Hun and stabbed him to death on their wedding night.

As I wrote earlier on this thread, the film was beautiful in the way they showed the transition to mutual love. I am not at all sure it is going to be as well handled here, for the starting point itself is much more negative and harsh, and the more extreme the reactions they show now, the harder it will be for the CVs to make that transition gracefully and convincingly. I am thus mentally prepared for Jodha Akbar to plummet suddenly in quality.

I agree with you about the tendency to mentally rationalise one's emotional decisions, and this not only to outsiders, but to oneself as well. In this case, there is no disputing the fact that all of Jalal's actions stem in truth from his fierce determination to get Jodha. He thinks it is to get his own back, but of course all of us know better, do we not?

Finally, looking at the same thing thru different lenses is no bad thing, otherwise we would be perpetually singing a duet!

There, that is enough and more!

Shyamala

Originally posted by: skanda12

Shyamala:

I can see the logic of what you are saying, for sure, and I do really see that as a very very valid point of view, especially about period films needing to be period-relevant in the way we read what happens to the characters.

But there seems one area where I absolutely disagree with your point of view, and that seems so fundamental a point that its no wonder we both see the same situations of the story through entirely different lenses.

For instance, I completely do not see Jodha as you have - and neither do I see Jalal as you have. Jodha to me is not as weak as she would seem to you, and Jalal to me is not without heart even at this stage of the story to me.

I strongly believe in the fact that it was Jalal's heart that drove him to visit Amer in the first place, and that it was his heart that is compelling him to accept Jodha whatever her tantrums and conditions or state of mind with respect to him. See from my lens therefore, I am always trying to see whether beneath the overt actions of Jalal and his intellectualising of the situations, his heart is involved.

For example, I am always a bit sceptical about people who try to rationalise their decisions with logical reasons to justify their actions, especially when they take too much care to labour the point or try to explain it to others with over-emphasis. When I see Jalal saying "I am the Shahenshah, I can take whatever decision I like, but let me anyway explain it to you ..." and then he goes on to count his reasons of logic on his fingertips, I tend to think "Why doth he need to explain so much?" The very fact that he needs to rationalise makes me wonder: why so much rationalisation? Who is he trying to convince? The others or himself?

(Maybe its my years of being an advertising person, it has trained me to understand that behind almost every - and I mean EVERY - decision there is usually the heart at play ... but more often than not people do not like to completely let on to others or even to themselves that the decision was so heavily heart-led ... and thus the role of the mind comes into play, doing the job of either pre-rationalisation or post-rationalisation, to others and more importantly to themselves. That's why in advertising we are always told to appeal to the heart in visuals but to also offer the intellectual rationalisations in words that people can conveniently then use to "tell themselves the rational story". See, although I call myself a "romanticist" it would be more right to say that I look for the heart-play in all things, decisions, verbal cues, actions because as a trained advertising creative I instinctively look to see how heartstrings get pulled It's an instinctive thing ...)

Regarding Jodha, the perception I have of her is that, unlike Jalal, she is not yet touched at heart. My perception of her is that even in her "hatred" of Jalal, there is not enough "heart" yet. I find that Jodha seems to be the type of person who is generally benign until cornered when she starts growing a little each time. Even to display her perspective on Jalal, she needs prods from him that she reacts to. She is not pro-active in her hatred. Maybe she needs some strong brush-offs with Jalal, before that "hatred" becomes strong enough to be "heart-led" and then there may be room for that hatred to lead to other heart-felt emotions.

Again, I am not sure if you'll agree with me, but I guess we are looking at these people from entirely different lenses.