Originally posted by: elasingh
I also think that he is slwely comming out of stage 1 and begining to enter stage 2.
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Originally posted by: elasingh
I also think that he is slwely comming out of stage 1 and begining to enter stage 2.
Originally posted by: skanda12
Friends, Jyoti's Internet is down and so I am standing in her stead to open this Weekend's Analysis Thread on this Super Shaadi Saptah ...
... let's face it, it was all a good week ... it was all one-hour long episodes, there was very little to complain about and lots to enjoy, and considering its an Ekta serial, I was so surprised that there was so little grossly over-the-top, that I was gladly surprised ... all in all we now have to go back to shorter episodes, so all of us must be anticipating the anti-climax next week ...... but here's an analysis of the week that went by! I have a few headings under which I have chosen to stash away all that happened ...
1. The deal
The precursor to the week was that "big alliance" that Bharmal succeeded in making with Jalal. That went in the earlier week, but the full repercussions of that deal and all its many rumblings were felt fully in this shaadi week. On the Amer front as well as the Mughal front, almost nobody was fully prepared to face the tumult of events. Most important of all, the things that happened was that Jalal was gripped with a joy-mixed-with-revenge on Jodha, Bharmal was gripped with a sense of relief, Mainavati was gripped with a sense of utter dismay at her daughter being bartered away in a deal, the other Rajput Rajas were gripped by a sense of betrayal by Bharmal, Sujamal was gripped with guilt ' but most important of all was what did not happen. No one had the guts to tell Jodha that her husband to be was the dreadful Jalal! The week therefore opened with the 360-degree fear of how Jodha would react when she found out ...
360 degree fear is the perfect term for it, but then having raised their daughters (not only Jodha; look at the screechy Sukanya!) the way they have, and having not once called her to order, and to the ground on flat feet, for her constant refrain of Jalal ka sar chahiye, what else could they expect? In reality, no Rajput princess of that period would ever have been allowed to carry on as Jodha is. Remember Meera, and her cousin, who is told to commit suicide to avert a war between 2 clashing demands for her hand, and 2 baaraats at her father's door.She complied without a murmur. That is how they were brought up and trained.
2. The convincing of Jodha
It is an irony of fate that Jodha was forced to be told the truth by Jalal himself. A henchman overhearing Mainavati and Dadisa's discussions listened to a piece of information that was crucial to Jalal ... he heard Dadisa give Mainavati an idea of doing a ceremony called the Kangan Bhandan by which the bride and groom cannot get to see each other's faces till after the wedding is over. Promptly the family does the ceremony with every important family member in on the conspiracy. But Jalal was sharp. The minute he sensed that Jodha was being cheated by her own kith and kin to marry him without an idea of who she was marrying, he immediately asked for a "muh dikhayi" ceremony. Throughout this week many of Jalal's actions have a double-edged feeling. At one level he looks like he wants revenge on Jodha. At the same time, his actions can be interpreted differently also. It could be sensed that Jalal was on Jodha's side and not wanting her to be used as a blind pawn in the politics going on in this shaddi. The muh dikhayi was one such situation when Jalal seemed to be doing things for revenge but was actually helping Jodha enter this marriage with awareness of her bridegroom. When push came to shove, Jalal was firmly behind Jodha and that's what I simply loved watching. Again during the muh dikhayi, the Rajputs thought of a sideways plan of showing the bride and groom their faces in a basin of water ' just hoping Jodha would miss the important part that Jalal was the groom. When Jodha peered into the water she grew suspicious, but Jalal did not want her to be in any doubt. He said the key sentence "Subhanallah, khuda ne phursath se banaya hai aapko". He praised her beauty, but speaking in Urdu he also let her know that he was the man on the other side of the reflection. Jalal took it upon himself to not let Jodha enter the shaadi without knowing who her husband was going to be. I get the feeling right there and then that even if he didn't yet love her, he cared for her desperately despite his own need for revenge sometimes.
Very romantic, my dear Mansi, and very sweet as well, but I am afraid I don't buy it. I think he wanted to marry her very badly, but he also wanted her to know in advance that he was to be her bridegroom, so as to amplify her negative reactions. He thought that Bharmal would have made sure of Jodha's compliance, which would normally have been the case in all Rajput royal families, for all this asking for and getting Jodha's consent is all nonsense and would never have happened in those days. The girl would have been frogmarched into the marriage and that was it. She would have been raised that way, and no disobedience would have been tolerated. So it would never have occurred to Jalal that she would be in any position to refuse him. If he had thought she could or would refuse, I doubt if he would have done any of this. The burning of the shaadi ka joda must have upset his calculations and assumptions, but he is astute enough to wait it out, and of course he wins out.
The other thing is if your thesis is correct, Jodha is not just self-centred and irresponsibly uncontrolled in her reactions, but also an ungrateful creature!😉
3. The tantrums of Jodha
What followed the muh dhikayai were the two main tantrums of Jodha ... one, she ran away from the muh dikhayi, and two, she then burnt the tohfa that Jalal personally sent her (the shaadi ka joda). For dramatic effect in any shaadi, even today, we always do have a few "hiccups" so I am not surprised that Jodha reacted violently to the sudden surprise of having to marry the most unpleasant man of her acquaintance. But again, for me, the fact that Jalal forgave her for running away (saying later to Mahamanga "Galti uski nahi thi. Usko pata hi nahi tha ke woh humse shaadi karne wali hai") ' and that fact that he again forgave her for burning the joda was remarkable. When the paigam later comes from Bharmal saying Jodha regrets her actions done in anger and haste and she has agreed to the marriage, did you all see the absolute relief on Jalal's face when he told his people to prepare for the baraat? Throughout, every time Jodha threw a tantrum, he explained his forgiveness of her by saying "If I give in it will look like Amer has won!" but we could all see that there was this young boy desperate to marry the girl of his dreams and willing to take everything she threw at him just to be able to drag her to the shaadi mandap somehow and get her securely tied to himself.
Again, Mansi, though you are extremely eloquent, it is Mills and Boon that you are insisting on, not a realistic 16th century tale. Jalal makes all those excuses to his entourage precisely for the same reasons for which he gives an elaborate explanation of why he agreed to this nikaah to his advisers. He will not budge from his determination to bind her to him in marriage, but he does not want to seem to be an obsessed lover who is weakened by his obsession. That would not be good for him at all politically. The relief on his face is because his stratagem works out, with the Amerites apologising profusely, and going ahead with what he wants, the marriage. But all this deepens his resentment against Jodha a great deal and has repercussions on the way he treats her at the road halt and later at Agra.
4. Jalal traps Jodha
Having then exhausted every avenue to throw off the hated marriage, Jodha thinks that if she unleashes two "deal-breaker" sharths on Jalal, he will himself backtrack and let her off the hook. She decides to play the religious card. She asks that she be allowed to keep her religion, and to set up a Krishna mandir right inside the precincts of the Agra palace, where it would be nothing short of blasphemy to allow idol worship so anathemical to Muslims. It is not just interesting that Jodha makes these sharths, but also equally interesting how she makes them ' by first asking for a direct interaction with Jalal (albeit with purdah in place) and by insisting on making a public spectacle of these sharths. But Jodha had not calculated for the sheer desperation with which Jalal wanted her in his life. He again said "Yes" to everything, knowing fully well that she was doing all this to slip out of the shaadi noose. He knew he could again play the same card with his own aghast people that "Amer will win if I don't say Yes". But instead he also added one more sentence to his defence. "I am the Shahenshah and the laws are what I dictate". "Enough of objections", Jalal was trying to say to all, "I've made up my mind that I will marry Jodha at any cost!" Jodha was trapped by Jalal and Destiny. Neither her tantrums nor her religious preferences made a jot of difference to him! He wanted her. Khatam!
I agree with the sheer desperation with which Jalal wanted her in his life, but why does he want her? He does not know the real reason as yet himself, but the overt reason is the one out of The Taming of the Shrew. To teach her a lesson she will not forget. For that to happen, she has to marry him, but after learning that she will be marrying him, and hating it every minute, even as she cannot escape it.
5. Jalal, his shaadi and his joy
I want to add here that in this whole week of one-hour episodes I was keenly watching Jalal's expressions, and I found it utterly eandearing to see the silent joy in his eyes, as he overcame objection after objection till he was firmly seated next to the shaadi ka havan with Jodha at his side, bending her head for the final sindoor scene. Jalal's eyes were a dead giveaway to his heart, and all the time he was looking at Jodha through the flowers of his sera you could sense the build up of joy and a heart bubbling away inside him. When she entered the room in all her wedding finery, when she sat next to him, when she reluctantly had to put her hand in his (which he did not miss the opportunity to give a good squeeze with both hands!), when she walked behind and ahead and beside him for the pheras and the saptapadi, and then she bent her head to let him put the sindoor in her maang, Jalal could not take his eyes off her. He was like a child that had got its favourite toy and coulldn't wait to start playing with it! Since most of us are women watching all these serials, it is easy to know what may be going through the girl's mind, but when we get glimpses of what may be going through the boy's mind our hearts melt over with happiness that he is so "in love with her". Throughout the shaadi I thought I saw love in Jalal's eyes, although he himself may not have known it at all. He looked triumphant, so it would be easy to think he was thrilled that "Jodha ko haasil kar liya", but that triumph of his seemed to come from the heart as he peeped from behind the sera, so the shaadi was an astounding success in every way for me. Ekta also kept the rasams to the minimum, interrupting the main shaadi sequences with little other byplays of Sujamal-Sharif, and Adham's murder attempt on Jalal etc etc. so we did not have an overload of three hundred rasams and unwanted melodrama. It was all beautifully directed and just right.
No, not 300 rasams, but a few more would not have come in amiss. No jayamala, and a blink and you will miss it kanyadaan. The Sujamal angle was ludicrous, the chap is wandering all over with just a few days growth of beard, and he is the second palki bearer behind Jodha's second brother, and no one of the Amerites spots him! And what was the point of Sharifuddin chasing after him, wasting precious TV time?
Well, well, I see that you are determined to have love in Jalal's eyes, spotted by you even behind that sehra, so who am I to deny you that? That I did not see anything that would be inconsistent with mischievous possessiveness is then besides the point! But I do agree with He was like a child that had got its favourite toy and couldn't wait to start playing with it!
6. The enemies circle and the friends circle emergesTwo clear circles of power have emerged this week as a result of this shaadi. One is the evil axis: Maham, Adham, Sharif, Ruqaiya. The other is the axis of good: Bhagwan Das, Mansingh, Hamid Banu and I also would incluude Salima (widow of Bairam now married to Jalal) who made a fleeting appearance at the jashn-e-bhaar ceremony yesterday without much fanfare. The evil axis was largely starting to show its colours at the wedding itself and then Ruqaiya has taken things to a new level with direct pangas against Jodha at Agra. Meanwhile Mansingh, the trusted bearer played a key cameo yesterday in exposing Adham by repeating all his insults word for word to Jalal. The character of Mansingh is very interesting here because we have only seen a small hint of his value to Jalal and Jodha. In the coming days it could well be that Mansingh plays Cupid to Jodha and Jalal, he becomes a key informer to both Jodha and Jalal when enemies are plotting against them, and he becomes Jalal's right hand at the same time that he also becomes Jodha's rakshak. The trio of Mansingh-Jalal-Jodha can become an impenetrable circle, unless Adham decides to plot directly against Mansingh himself to eliminate him. I think that Mansingh's life and Moti Bai's izzat are in khatra from Adham Khan.
I agree fully the power circles, and about Mansingh and his likely future role. But before you get a trio of Mansingh-Jalal-Jodha, your haughty princess has to accept Jalal's presence in her life as something not just legitimate but also at least tolerable, if not acceptable. Not if she continues to look at him as if he was a blackbeetle that she had found in her soup!😉
Incidentally, did you note that everything Adham Khan says about the Amer royal family is literally true? They have bartered their daughter for the security of Amer. It was pure hypocrisy for Bhagwandas to complain about it, but if you can get away with it, why not?😉
7. En route to AgraI
I want to separately write about this doli reaching Bhanjara en route to Agra after the wedding because we had the one very very key scene there that most of us call the suhhaag raath. The precaps of the scene were intriguing when we saw them, and a lot of us were expecting Jalal to pounce on Jodha the next day in the episode. But let's look at the Bhanjara encampment in a bit of more detail: first Jodha refuses to come at Jalal's bidding to the main tent where he wants to hear her sing. She then tries to go to sleep in a huff in her own tent. Mahamanga makes a hue and cry about Jodha tukrao-fying the Shahenshah! Jalal rushes to Jodha's tent ' and the heart takes over. The familiar background music begins where Jalal seeing the sleeping Jodha is reminded of her utterly captivating beauty and pull on his heart. But she is ready with a knife that he barely manages to catch and throw away. Instead of taking the bride that was his for the taking, he instead says "What of those vachans you made before the fire that you will accept me in every way as your husband?" (In other words, "Why are you not coming to me of your own after those vachans?"). She says "Don't try to treat a wife as a dassi by calling me up in front of all and sundry!" (Meaning "You were not private, you were too public for my taste!"). Both of them do not question each other's logic, and so Jalal covers it all up by saying "I like the fear of me in your eyes. I can protect you from others, but no one can protect you from me. " (Meaning: "You are safe today, but tomorrow and in the coming days, who knows!"). He threatens but he does nothing to force her! That is the remarkable thing! He then of course, plays a charade on her to get back at her by pretending his hand is hurt and he cannot even feed himself. He wants to create situations of closeness where he can at least hold her hand and get playful with her, till the ice is broken. Kudos to Jalal! In between we had the lovely sequence also of both praying to their own Gods when he also hears her sing. That was a lovely scene I thought.
I agree with all of this, especially about the little boy mischief in the breakfast scene, but Jodha is a washout there. She does not even see the humour in his having played that little trick on her.
8. Life at Agra
The convoy reaching Agra was all as expected, for me. I knew that the politics of Agra would take over on Friday and it did ... Ruquaiya and her maliciousness, the kindness of Hamida Banu, the ill-intent of Mahamanga and the exposure to the infamous harem for the first time for Jodha! In between the time when Hamida Banu gave a new set of clothes to Jodha for the lavish welcome ceremony and the grand welcome ceremony itself, a miniscule moment was spent on the Muslim nikaah taking place. Jalal again in a sera sat on one side of the purdah while Jodha sat on the other. Jalal said a quick "Qubool hai!" while Jodha nodded her assent and congratulations of one and all followed. Nikaah over! Soon after the jashn-e-baahar was unleashed on all of us, with grand entrances by all the bigwigs, and we had the showdown of Ruqaiya by Jodha. We also had the poisoning of Jalal by Ruqaiya against Jodha (which was something I didn't like to watch, especially when Jalal stepped down from his throne to confer privately with Ruqaiya!). But anyway all efforts to derail the "ghamandi" Jodha went to vain when to Jala's dismay she started singing what sounded like a Rajput national anthem in the middle of a Mughal durbari hall! Jalal was checkmated, but more importantly, Ruqaiya's intention of making Jalal a puppet who could in turn pull Jodha's strings was checkmated. Bhargwan Das himself was stunned at the temerity of his sister, and Mansingh looked like he was seeing ghosts! Anyway it all led to an angry and drunk Jalal ruminating about all the times Jodha had insulted him and he then walked with speed and a drunken lurch towards Jodha's room.
The funny thing about Jodha's paean to Rajput valour and their sar kataa sakte hain par jhuka sakte nahin motto was that she is the living rebuttal of all that she lauded in her song. She has, to put it bluntly, been traded by her family to save their backsides and cover up their military incompetence. Even the boastful Suryabhan. He was defeated fair and square by Sujamal, and in a real battle, would have been killed on the spot; there would have been no need for Sharifuddin to spear him from the back.
So what dauntless valor was Jodha singing about? If Jalal had not been the Emperor, he could have brought her down to earth by pointing that out publicly. I don;t blame her for trying to salvage something out of that fiasco he had created, and to turn the tables on him, but what she was singing did not apply to her family at least! I wonder if she realises that.
Another point. I am almost sure that to begin with, Jalal did not plan to ask Jodha to sing, When Ruqaiya complains that Jodha nearly turned down her tohfa, he grins in amusement at a women's squabble, he does not side with Ruqaiya against Jodha. She sees that at once, and immediately shifts tack to the sole, ultra touchy point,his pride as am emperor. That hits home, and it is then that he decides to make Jodha sing in public. If you have the time, take a look at my post on yesterday's episode, where I have touched on what I see as Jodha's mishandling of the whole.
Now I have a prediction for what is going to happen.
We saw Jalal rushing drunkenly to Jodha's room, no doubt with the intention to ravish her as a punishment for all her insults! While he was in transit though, Jodha herself had been having nightmares that she had overstepped the line with Jalal and he may enter the room any moment with retribution in mind. Instead she finds only Ruqaiya there, gloating over the fact that Jodha was too insignificant to hold Jalal's interest even for a short while, as she Ruquaiya was the one whose bed he always sought first. Insecurity was writ large on Ruqaiya's face.
Now its my prediction that soon after Ruqaiya will leave Jodha's room Jalal will himself definitely walk in (or rather lurch in!). Being so drunk as to be unfit for anything, he may well flop on Jodha's bed and fall asleep. Jodha would be utterly shocked of course, but may be tempted to put a blanket over her sadly angry and sleepy husband as she retires to a corner of the bed herself to sleep it out and sort it all in the morning.
Meanwhile Mahamanga may have seen Jalal marching into Jodha's room and not coming out the whole night and she may have put two and two together and made two hundred of it. That why in the precap we see that a highly volatile sounding Ruqaiya is trying to show off to Mahamanga that Jalal is hers alone and will never fancy Jodha, whereas Mahamanga is desperately trying to warn Ruqaiyaa that her over-excitement is shallow and may soon end in tears.
Jodha and Jalal may remember that they did nothing together that night, and maybe the morning after their feelings for each other may have softened into something else entirely seeing their predicamentt of being in the same bed. But to the Mahamanga's and Ruqaiya's it would surely look like Jalal has gone over to the enemy camp for a romp, and their own days of sway over him are over!
Wow, that's destiny! Let's hope my prediction is right.
So, my dear , do I. It is a superb scenario, and you deserve several rounds of applause for it. If the CVs have been as clever as you are , it will be wonderful. I never thought that he would force himself on her, even if he was drunk, for that would sully their future relationship beyond repair, but I also could not understand where on earth he had disappeared. You have squared the circle perfectly.
It might be too much to ask, but if Jodha were to burst into giggles when Jalal wakes up the next morning, it would break the ice at one go.
Originally posted by: skanda12
Oh my God, what a wonderful reply you have written! I agree with you 100% that on the outside jalal gives lots of political justification for his decisions, but in the unguarded moments is when even I start seeing "love budding".Here I must mention one thing ... I see this "love" as a six-level thing:1. Jalal is not in love at all, he is only interested in justice, revenge etc etc etc2. He is in love already, but he himself doesn't know it, so he does not know what name to give his feelings3. He is in love, but in strong denial about it.4. He is in love, accepts it, but is unready to do something about it yet ... he wants to know if she is also feeling it before committing his side.5. He is in love and wants to act openly on his feelings, maybe is ready to start showing it. Maybe looking for her signs of change.6. He is in love and wants her to know his feelings, being more or less sure of her feelings too.On this scale of things, I think we are all debating whether jalal is at level 1 or level 2 ... but we are all agreed he is not at Level 3 at all. So when some of us are saying he may already be in love and others are saying he is not, we are all still talking only of the very very early signs, nowhere near the whole thing!
Originally posted by: smiletherapy
Dear Mansi,
What a wonderful summary of events! I'm always amazed by your insights and especially the way you are able to connect things in your summaries.And Sonya Blade I also often enjoy reading your counterpoints as well. You both often make me rethink my position.This time around I find myself somewhere in between the both of you...I think one more thing that comes into the equation, whichever side you fall onto re: Jalal loves her now or not, is Jalal's sense of justice and politics. Jalal is of course egotistical and wanting to dominate Jodha, but he also has (as Hameeda told Jodha) a lot of good qualities, as well, like that sense of justice and appreciation for sound reasoning as well--which does cut through his ego usually.I feel like I'm parroting a lot of what Shyamala Aunty has said in her many wonderful posts, but I think the fact that in his mind his reasons for doing things make sense to him in terms of his inherent sense of justice (it's not fair that Jodha's family is lying to her) and keen sense of politics (he really wants the alliance to go through b/c expanding his empire with the Rajputs on his side is way smarter, easier and more effective than not ) means that he can keep denying his feelings about her to himself and the multiple personal motives that also exist behind his actions. The excuses he makes for forgiving her behavior help him to explain his actions (as not being ruled by his personal feelings) to MA and whoever else, but especially to himself. And for me, I think so long as that continues, I tend not to read as many of the scenes as him loving her or caring for her; but more in terms of his conquest of this new adversary (Jodha).BUT WAIT--Having said that I would add, it's not always that way. It's definitely not just one or the other--which is what makes it so fun for me to watch. I do think the moments where he is unguarded and doesn't have to explain himself to anyone (esp. himself), are in fact moments where tenderness and care start to come to the surface--even perhaps unbeknownst to him. For me, some of those moments are when he does storm into her tent and we have that soft background music matching the sudden softness on his face. I also think those moments when Hameeda Begum greets Jodha for the first time--sure he's puffed up with pride about his mother's compliments to her--but he also seems quite surprised by Jodha's respect towards his mom (when she does the touching of the feet) and his own mom's affection towards her. Surprised and thus, caught off guard again his face is softened and I feel then he is feeling some unbidden tenderness towards Jodha. Also, he seems to really like catching her smiling--as when the ladies sing welcome to her and at the performance of the Jashn ceremony. Those I would put as more tender moments... I also incidentally loved his quizzical look when his mom says to Jodha "Aap to meri liye khaas hai" (or sthg like that--my urdu/hindi is terrible) expressing that for some reason Jodha is very special to her. I thought that was funny. And masterful acting by RT as well.)In any case, I think because there is such good acting and writing, and the possibility for things to be happening on multiple levels (personal, political, etc.) that it does make for a lot of room for us to interpret as we like, and for sure why this is such a wonderful forum. In fact, this has been the only forum I have ever felt compelled to enter; many thanks to the show for that, but especially very interesting and insightful posters as you all.
Originally posted by: sashashyam
My dear Mansi.
I had promised myself I would stay off this forum today, after going to bed past 3 am last night, but you are a temptress, so here goes, a tad more briefly than my norm!😉 My comments are in blue.
And yes, this is a marvellous summary and analysis
Shyamala
Originally posted by: skanda12
Shyamala:
Thanks for the very astute ideas you have posted in reply to my "thesis". Having laid out the points as you have, I cannot help but see your point of view.But - and this is a big BUT - I am a closet-optimist-romanticist as I've often told you. So my point of view of the whole is likely to be more as I "like to see it" rather than historically very correct. I'm also by tendency a "take it as it comes" kind of creature. For example, it does not strike me to see this serial with a "... it must be the sixteenth century, so what would they have really done in that time" kind of perspective. I am tending to see the story for its story value than its time situation. This could be a flaw in my perception or it may just be my way to feel the relevance of the story in the present time for myself.Nevertheless, I do appreciate all points of view - and the more the merrier - because watching the serial is half the fun and then thrashing it out on the forum is the other half of the fun.
Shyamala and Skanda I am loving both of urs counterpoints...Wow...Hats of to you both...👏
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