Divorce and character, society & individual

In past 2 months, seeing all nasty posts against this show and Aamir Khan - bashing him simply because he divorced his former wife or calling his divorce by mutual consent as ''deserting wife'', ''throwing wife/kids to wolves'' or even (!) domestic violence made me ponder over our attitude...

I did defend Aamir for this in context that being divorced does not make him evil. But there is no denying that divorce is sad.

I had been judgemental towards my uncle too, when he got divorced. Now responding to SJ bashers I have begun to wonder about our own attitudes towards divorced and divorced people.

My mama ji was the first person in the entire extended family to get divorced. No one from my father's or mother's families had ever been divorced. I remember what a big issue it was in a conservative family like ours. His and mami's marriage began to show cracks in first year or so itself. My mami was loved by the entire family, including us kids and had in fact become more of my nana-nani's laadli/beloved one than my mama ji himself. Even for us kids (we were too young then), she was the only person after our parents and grand parents who we were attached to and who could influence us. I remember I had always valued her way more than I ever valued my mama, even though he was always loving and caring towards me (and entire family for that matter).

Their marriage lasted 6 years. Through these years, I'd see all relatives from both sides try to counsel and convince the two. It was ironical how both of them got along with everybody, could handle anybody both in family and at work - but could never gel with each other. Their hostility and coldness towards each other only grew.

Ultimately it all just ended up in divorce. The drama in the family was too much. Our parents tried to keep us away from it, but we did sense it.

None of the two had had an affair, there had never been domestic violence or something! The only issue they both had was that both of them felt the either was too domineering and wasn't understanding!!😕 That was the reason why the whole family was appalled why they wanted divorce. Everyone would say why break a marriage on such ''flimsy'' grounds! From philosophical reasons to society and religion related warnings/reasons to even counselling - the families from both sides tried their best to deter their divorce and convince them to work on their marriage.

But nothing worked. My grandfather even told my uncle that he'd never talk to him in life if he did divorce my mami! On my mami's side, I remember her own mother's health had begun to fail and she'd keep requesting her to reconsider her decisions and not leave such a good family just because she felt she couldn't get along with the man she married!

They (the families and the couple) did pass 6 years somehow trying to make the relationship work. Families tried to coax them and have kids (because it is believed maybe kids can make husband-wife come closer), but they didn't even get over the hostility, or sleep in same room, forget kids! Finally it all ended.

They didn't badmouth each other. Both wanted only divorce.

All hell broke loose after the divorce in both individuals lives. I have seen both my uncle and aunt suffer. I have seen both their characters being questioned, rumours being made about them at their respective neighbourhoods and work places. I have seen both their relatives bash them. It has been more than 10 years since their divorce now, and both have gone their separate pathways, still relatives/friends and others have made them a subject of debate/gossip with conversations bashing or sympathising with either of them!

As a kid on verge of growing older, and naturally being a female at that time I had favoured my mami more. And I developed an abiding dislike for my mamaji and even to some extent my nani-nana for allowing this to happen. It did hurt me how a woman has to first leave her home, change her habits/lifestyle, embrace an unknown set of people as her own but she can be told to leave any time and later has to start her life afresh from a scratch. That incident made me wonder about value of family also. Whether relationships are for real or whether anyone can be brought or deleted out of life.

I admit, being a female I looked at it from my mami's angle only and thinking only what a woman suffers. I have also been guilty of disliking my own mama. And am ashamed to admit once in a fit of anger, while replying to him when he scolded me, I asked him what right did he have to tell me to listen to my parents if he had himself not listened to his parents during time of divorce. I remember he had a shell shocked look on his face back then, he got silent, never talked in my parents or my matters again.😕

My mama is a highly educated, respected and caring man. Whenever anyone has fallen sick, it is he who has left everything to stay up all day, all night to take care of that relative. Still till date I harbour a dislike for him simply because he divorced my mami...

My mama remained unmarried for years after his divorce. His health deteriorated, he was taunted by relatives, talked behind back, subject of gossip, he did suffer depression too. In sympathising for a woman, we perhaps overlook what a man goes through. I remember my mama wanted kids of his own, a family to nurture. And he'd become wistful whenever he would see other relatives and friends much younger than him having their own happy families. My grandmother always used to be worried for him - she had double burden - bear the society's gossiping, try and take care of her son, worry about his future. My grandfather did turn very hostile towards my mama, he'd leave no opportunity to tell him he didn't approve of what he did.

My mama did everything to deal with this low point - tried to busy himself in more work, took to religion and spirituality...

He took a lot of time to deal with this and become stable. Even after he became stable, he refused to consider remarriage. He said he didn't want to go through all this again.

But my grandmother was adamant that he remarry. She wanted to ensure someone was there for him, even if she didn't live long enough to be with her son. On her insistence, my mama agreed - with much reluctance though.

His remarriage was made a tamasha and topic of gossip by some of his own close relatives and routine gossip mongers in neighbourhood/society. At last he did get married to a woman of his own age, who was single working woman and had stayed unmarried only because she was focused on her career and social work.

In case of a second marriage - some people congratulate you, whereas some others only snigger and wonder why you needed to marry at this age etc. In some cases we gossip about affairs if second wife has been in touch with the man before. But society being society, looks for excuses to bash even when the second wife is completely unknown to the man and the match has been found by parents of both parties not the man/woman themselves!🤢

My second mami is a really nice woman, extremely well educated, sophisticated, polite. But very shy. She was such a faultless woman. But nonetheless we ended up comparing her every action to our previous mami! Even though the previous one had left years ago. Sometimes someone would praise her compared to the previous one, sometimes someone would belittle her compared to the previous one. Ironically now, she has been in the family for more years than my first mami. Still perhaps, most of us were attached to the first one!

A second wife has to go through so much. At her age (if marriage is late), they baffle her with fears of how she'd be able to conceive, even praise for her gets accompanied with direct or indirect comparison to former wife and at times people call out name of former one even though they had tried to call out to her. Or she is mocked (by naysayers) saying that if the guy could leave first one, he could leave her too! She is asked why she married a divorced guy in first place. And in case some relatives dislike her, they are quick to say, arrey the former one was better usko kyun chhoda tha agar isko tolerate kar rahe ho?😡

I have a cousin who is much younger to me and was not even born when my mama's divorce happened. Such a cheeky guy he is that he bitches about my mama, labels him a ''womaniser'' or a ''bad man'' simply because he got divorced once and married again! He knows nothing, still he bitches and bitches worse when he is scolded or reprimanded by my mama.

[From my former mami's side - I know she was also depressed for long. Initially stayed at a working women's hostel for some time. Her mother died in grief of this divorce. She was blamed by relatives for being too egotistic for a woman, even her younger sister (who was newly married) had begun to avoid her. Some lauded her for ''standing up for herself'' and told her to look forward and make her own future, some gossiped about her, many greeted her with pity and sympathy. Her own father supported her anyway but was himself hostile due to divorce, his wife's death and all society's gossiping.

She was in touch with us for some time but later completely detached herself from not only our family, but also left the city. I wanted to keep in touch with her but she told us she needed to cut off to start her life afresh. I have never heard from her since then but only know she's achieved great heights in her career, winning honours for her work and is too busy to even think of anything else. She's moved ahead and is happy.]

Both my mama and former mami are happy in their own respective lives now and both do not even bother about past - unless they are reminded by others who like to scratch old wounds. Still we family and society members couldn't stop judging them or wondering about them! Is the fault theirs or is the fault with our mentality?

Now when I see backlash against this movie star Aamir Khan, I am jolted myself!😲 I feel odd...because I myself kept judging a person's character and belittled him both in front of him and behind his back for years...😔 And I am ashamed of it for sure...still I admit whenever I get angry I use the divorce taunt...against that relative!😒

Haven't I been judgemental of my own uncle's character and ways? How did only divorce make him worse? After all, I have seen some relatives and neighbours who even beat up each other (both man and wife!) but behave all happy family, ideal couple in front of others.

Why should society interfere and play judge in every matter? Is it absolutely necessary to marry? Why even single persons are ridiculed? And if two people do not find it possible to live together or just don't want to be together, then should they be forced to be together? Does divorce automatically make you characterless or a bad guy/woman? How come a single act of divorce is enough to overshadow your education, all your good deeds, even your genuine intentions and give a bad colour to whatever you do?

How come society takes liberty to make a dartboard of a person who gets divorced - and keep speculating or gossiping about him/her for years?

If two people terminate the relationship amicably then why should we have problem? If some individuals are contented with the way lives have taken a turn then is it right for society to keep making a drama of their lives in their gossipy discussions?

In this film star's case, we are only bashing the star. I am sure Reena must get her own share of bashers/sympathisers in her own circle. So does Kiran.Society doesn't spare anyone...as I have witnessed in case of both my mama and mami.

The posts for and against Aamir's personal life have made me introspect a lot on my own conduct.

All I can say is that both parties suffer when a divorce happens. Not just the woman but also the man. When kids are there - they suffer too, but mainly when either parent has cut off all ties with them. If parents work on keeping the relationship with kids intact, then perhaps it helps them deal better with it.

Dunno, it's up to individuals and their families to deal and heal. But yes, if families and society is so concerned then they should let healed people remain healed or let people heal themselves instead of gossiping, bashing and further trying to scratch a person's wounds.

No judgement on Aamir...my I do know for myself, that I will apologise to my mama when I meet him and even to my nani (who I always argued with for not being able to control her kids and not being able to convince my mama to not to divorce mami!). I'd try to be more careful talking to my mami (now, the current one). And I will hope I learn to mind my own business and never gossip about individuals even in a fit of rage.

Divorce isn't good. But there's a reason law allows it. So guess it is not all evil and certainly not domestic violence against women only! All things shouldn't be forced upon individuals...Maybe people should not marry if they are not ready or think hard before marrying. After all, this former husband/wife and current husband/wife thing does sound unsettling. But if they do end up divorcing each other..probably they should not even be executed for it by society...

Originally posted by: annika20

In past 2 months, seeing all nasty posts against this show and Aamir Khan - bashing him simply because he divorced his former wife or calling his divorce by mutual consent as ''deserting wife'', ''throwing wife/kids to wolves'' or even (!) domestic violence made me ponder over our attitude...

I did defend Aamir for this in context that being divorced does not make him evil. But there is no denying that divorce is sad.

I had been judgemental towards my uncle too, when he got divorced. Now responding to SJ bashers I have begun to wonder about our own attitudes towards divorced and divorced people.

My mama ji was the first person in the entire extended family to get divorced. No one from my father's or mother's families had ever been divorced. I remember what a big issue it was in a conservative family like ours. His and mami's marriage began to show cracks in first year or so itself. My mami was loved by the entire family, including us kids and had in fact become more of my nana-nani's laadli/beloved one than my mama ji himself. Even for us kids (we were too young then), she was the only person after our parents and grand parents who we were attached to and who could influence us. I remember I had always valued her way more than I ever valued my mama, even though he was always loving and caring towards me (and entire family for that matter).

Their marriage lasted 6 years. Through these years, I'd see all relatives from both sides try to counsel and convince the two. It was ironical how both of them got along with everybody, could handle anybody both in family and at work - but could never gel with each other. Their hostility and coldness towards each other only grew.

Ultimately it all just ended up in divorce. The drama in the family was too much. Our parents tried to keep us away from it, but we did sense it.

None of the two had had an affair, there had never been domestic violence or something! The only issue they both had was that both of them felt the either was too domineering and wasn't understanding!!😕 That was the reason why the whole family was appalled why they wanted divorce. Everyone would say why break a marriage on such ''flimsy'' grounds! From philosophical reasons to society and religion related warnings/reasons to even counselling - the families from both sides tried their best to deter their divorce and convince them to work on their marriage.

But nothing worked. My grandfather even told my uncle that he'd never talk to him in life if he did divorce my mami! On my mami's side, I remember her own mother's health had begun to fail and she'd keep requesting her to reconsider her decisions and not leave such a good family just because she felt she couldn't get along with the man she married!

They (the families and the couple) did pass 6 years somehow trying to make the relationship work. Families tried to coax them and have kids (because it is believed maybe kids can make husband-wife come closer), but they didn't even get over the hostility, or sleep in same room, forget kids! Finally it all ended.

They didn't badmouth each other. Both wanted only divorce.

All hell broke loose after the divorce in both individuals lives. I have seen both my uncle and aunt suffer. I have seen both their characters being questioned, rumours being made about them at their respective neighbourhoods and work places. I have seen both their relatives bash them. It has been more than 10 years since their divorce now, and both have gone their separate pathways, still relatives/friends and others have made them a subject of debate/gossip with conversations bashing or sympathising with either of them!

As a kid on verge of growing older, and naturally being a female at that time I had favoured my mami more. And I developed an abiding dislike for my mamaji and even to some extent my nani-nana for allowing this to happen. It did hurt me how a woman has to first leave her home, change her habits/lifestyle, embrace an unknown set of people as her own but she can be told to leave any time and later has to start her life afresh from a scratch. That incident made me wonder about value of family also. Whether relationships are for real or whether anyone can be brought or deleted out of life.

I admit, being a female I looked at it from my mami's angle only and thinking only what a woman suffers. I have also been guilty of disliking my own mama. And am ashamed to admit once in a fit of anger, while replying to him when he scolded me, I asked him what right did he have to tell me to listen to my parents if he had himself not listened to his parents during time of divorce. I remember he had a shell shocked look on his face back then, he got silent, never talked in my parents or my matters again.😕

My mama is a highly educated, respected and caring man. Whenever anyone has fallen sick, it is he who has left everything to stay up all day, all night to take care of that relative. Still till date I harbour a dislike for him simply because he divorced my mami...

My mama remained unmarried for years after his divorce. His health deteriorated, he was taunted by relatives, talked behind back, subject of gossip, he did suffer depression too. In sympathising for a woman, we perhaps overlook what a man goes through. I remember my mama wanted kids of his own, a family to nurture. And he'd become wistful whenever he would see other relatives and friends much younger than him having their own happy families. My grandmother always used to be worried for him - she had double burden - bear the society's gossiping, try and take care of her son, worry about his future. My grandfather did turn very hostile towards my mama, he'd leave no opportunity to tell him he didn't approve of what he did.

My mama did everything to deal with this low point - tried to busy himself in more work, took to religion and spirituality...

He took a lot of time to deal with this and become stable. Even after he became stable, he refused to consider remarriage. He said he didn't want to go through all this again.

But my grandmother was adamant that he remarry. She wanted to ensure someone was there for him, even if she didn't live long enough to be with her son. On her insistence, my mama agreed - with much reluctance though.

His remarriage was made a tamasha and topic of gossip by some of his own close relatives and routine gossip mongers in neighbourhood/society. At last he did get married to a woman of his own age, who was single working woman and had stayed unmarried only because she was focused on her career and social work.

In case of a second marriage - some people congratulate you, whereas some others only snigger and wonder why you needed to marry at this age etc. In some cases we gossip about affairs if second wife has been in touch with the man before. But society being society, looks for excuses to bash even when the second wife is completely unknown to the man and the match has been found by parents of both parties not the man/woman themselves!🤢

My second mami is a really nice woman, extremely well educated, sophisticated, polite. But very shy. She was such a faultless woman. But nonetheless we ended up comparing her every action to our previous mami! Even though the previous one had left years ago. Sometimes someone would praise her compared to the previous one, sometimes someone would belittle her compared to the previous one. Ironically now, she has been in the family for more years than my first mami. Still perhaps, most of us were attached to the first one!

A second wife has to go through so much. At her age (if marriage is late), they baffle her with fears of how she'd be able to conceive, even praise for her gets accompanied with direct or indirect comparison to former wife and at times people call out name of former one even though they had tried to call out to her. Or she is mocked (by naysayers) saying that if the guy could leave first one, he could leave her too! She is asked why she married a divorced guy in first place. And in case some relatives dislike her, they are quick to say, arrey the former one was better usko kyun chhoda tha agar isko tolerate kar rahe ho?😡

I have a cousin who is much younger to me and was not even born when my mama's divorce happened. Such a cheeky guy he is that he bitches about my mama, labels him a ''womaniser'' or a ''bad man'' simply because he got divorced once and married again! He knows nothing, still he bitches and bitches worse when he is scolded or reprimanded by my mama.

[From my former mami's side - I know she was also depressed for long. Initially stayed at a working women's hostel for some time. Her mother died in grief of this divorce. She was blamed by relatives for being too egotistic for a woman, even her younger sister (who was newly married) had begun to avoid her. Some lauded her for ''standing up for herself'' and told her to look forward and make her own future, some gossiped about her, many greeted her with pity and sympathy. Her own father supported her anyway but was himself hostile due to divorce, his wife's death and all society's gossiping.

She was in touch with us for some time but later completely detached herself from not only our family, but also left the city. I wanted to keep in touch with her but she told us she needed to cut off to start her life afresh. I have never heard from her since then but only know she's achieved great heights in her career, winning honours for her work and is too busy to even think of anything else. She's moved ahead and is happy.]

Both my mama and former mami are happy in their own respective lives now and both do not even bother about past - unless they are reminded by others who like to scratch old wounds. Still we family and society members couldn't stop judging them or wondering about them! Is the fault theirs or is the fault with our mentality?

Now when I see backlash against this movie star Aamir Khan, I am jolted myself!😲 I feel odd...because I myself kept judging a person's character and belittled him both in front of him and behind his back for years...😔 And I am ashamed of it for sure...still I admit whenever I get angry I use the divorce taunt...against that relative!😒

Haven't I been judgemental of my own uncle's character and ways? How did only divorce make him worse? After all, I have seen some relatives and neighbours who even beat up each other (both man and wife!) but behave all happy family, ideal couple in front of others.

Why should society interfere and play judge in every matter? Is it absolutely necessary to marry? Why even single persons are ridiculed? And if two people do not find it possible to live together or just don't want to be together, then should they be forced to be together? Does divorce automatically make you characterless or a bad guy/woman? How come a single act of divorce is enough to overshadow your education, all your good deeds, even your genuine intentions and give a bad colour to whatever you do?

How come society takes liberty to make a dartboard of a person who gets divorced - and keep speculating or gossiping about him/her for years?

If two people terminate the relationship amicably then why should we have problem? If some individuals are contented with the way lives have taken a turn then is it right for society to keep making a drama of their lives in their gossipy discussions?

In this film star's case, we are only bashing the star. I am sure Reena must get her own share of bashers/sympathisers in her own circle. So does Kiran.Society doesn't spare anyone...as I have witnessed in case of both my mama and mami.

The posts for and against Aamir's personal life have made me introspect a lot on my own conduct.

All I can say is that both parties suffer when a divorce happens. Not just the woman but also the man. When kids are there - they suffer too, but mainly when either parent has cut off all ties with them. If parents work on keeping the relationship with kids intact, then perhaps it helps them deal better with it.

Dunno, it's up to individuals and their families to deal and heal. But yes, if families and society is so concerned then they should let healed people remain healed or let people heal themselves instead of gossiping, bashing and further trying to scratch a person's wounds.

No judgement on Aamir...my I do know for myself, that I will apologise to my mama when I meet him and even to my nani (who I always argued with for not being able to control her kids and not being able to convince my mama to not to divorce mami!). I'd try to be more careful talking to my mami (now, the current one). And I will hope I learn to mind my own business and never gossip about individuals even in a fit of rage.

Divorce isn't good. But there's a reason law allows it. So guess it is not all evil and certainly not domestic violence against women only! All things shouldn't be forced upon individuals...Maybe people should not marry if they are not ready or think hard before marrying. After all, this former husband/wife and current husband/wife thing does sound unsettling. But if they do end up divorcing each other..probably they should not even be executed for it by society...

@earth1978

If my mami is unmarried it is due to her own choice and free will. Even my current mami remained unmarried till the age of 40 all because her priorities were different. She married my mama only at insistence of her own father who feared for his daughter's future after his death.

Now your response shows mentality of society making assumptions! My former mami was not stopped by anyone from remarrying. She wants to focus on her career now. And is happy. But people like you assume she was left alone or denied ''pleasure of motherhood''. Why can't we understand that everyone has different priorities? And why do we feel that every woman wants ''pleasure of motherhood''? I think if she had wanted this pleasure then she could have tried in 6 years of her marriage too instead of staying hostile.

I do not pity her at all nor do I make accusations at my mama for not giving her ''pleasure of motherhood''. I used to hate it all, due to losing a family member I valued. And now I think I probably should not have even done that or perhaps left it at that, not stretched it for years.

It was their choice!

Responsibilities are important but so are individual rights.There has to be a balance somewhere. One can't live solely for society. Earlier society did not even permit one to change his career. Nowadays you are allowed to choose your career or change your job even at middle age. Religious conversion is allowed, changing names is allowed, disowning your own son or daughter is allowed etc. - all because individuals have their rights too.

Coming to Aamir - you are misinformed earth1978. Kiran Rao has clarified many times that she starting seeing Aamir only after his divorce and never interacted much with him during Lagaan. And the ground for divorce between Aamir and Reena was cited as ''irreconcilable differences'' (see any media report) and not adultery as you say. So if the court statement says differences then why we assume adultery?

It is again the point of society making assumptions. Just as my little cousin calls my mama a womaniser even though he was not even born when the divorce happened and does not realise that divorcing your wife and remarrying after some years does not mean one is a womaniser!

@naj17

Thanks for sharing your experience. I understand too. Maybe I was too attached to her and held divorce as a cause of being cut off from her. But then, even she requested us to let her move on or else she would not be able to start afresh. I do not bash her for it. It was her own choice whether she wanted to keep in touch with me at least or completely cut off from her past life and move on to start life afresh.

I do not compare my current mami with the former one in her presence. Never. But now I feel I should not do it even behind her back or in my own thoughts! She is a nice woman after all! I was only outlining how we mentally also compare and how many keep comparing behind back or by mistake they call her by my former mami's name instead of her own name. I think I would check my nani also now, if she happens to compare her with former one even while praising her. And I'd surely be less harsh on my nani. She did try all she could. But things did not happen as she hoped.

Yeah the generation and people are hypocritical. But I hated him thinking woman could be replaced or why women had to change home etc. I hated it due to the system of society. Sometimes I find myself hating on my former mami too, thinking why she stayed even for 6 years in marriage or why she bonded with us, if she could never bond with her husband or why she married in first place!

But then as I said, I now wonder who the hell are we to comment on others. Only they know what they go through! And if they suffered, broke down, but have rebuilt their lives their way now then who am I to still nitpick on what ought to have been.

Originally posted by: annika20

@earth1978

If my mami is unmarried it is due to her own choice and free will. Even my current mami remained unmarried till the age of 40 all because her priorities were different. She married my mama only at insistence of her own father who feared for his daughter's future after his death.

Now your response shows mentality of society making assumptions! My former mami was not stopped by anyone from remarrying. She wants to focus on her career now. And is happy. But people like you assume she was left alone or denied ''pleasure of motherhood''. Why can't we understand that everyone has different priorities? And why do we feel that every woman wants ''pleasure of motherhood''? I think if she had wanted this pleasure then she could have tried in 6 years of her marriage too instead of staying hostile.

I do not pity her at all nor do I make accusations at my mama for not giving her ''pleasure of motherhood''. I used to hate it all, due to losing a family member I valued. And now I think I probably should not have even done that or perhaps left it at that, not stretched it for years.

It was their choice!

Responsibilities are important but so are individual rights.There has to be a balance somewhere. One can't live solely for society. Earlier society did not even permit one to change his career. Nowadays you are allowed to choose your career or change your job even at middle age. Religious conversion is allowed, changing names is allowed, disowning your own son or daughter is allowed etc. - all because individuals have their rights too.

Coming to Aamir - you are misinformed earth1978. Kiran Rao has clarified many times that she starting seeing Aamir only after his divorce and never interacted much with him during Lagaan. And the ground for divorce between Aamir and Reena was cited as ''irreconcilable differences'' (see any media report) and not adultery as you say. So if the court statement says differences then why we assume adultery?

It is again the point of society making assumptions. Just as my little cousin calls my mama a womaniser even though he was not even born when the divorce happened and does not realise that divorcing your wife and remarrying after some years does not mean one is a womaniser!