Sunny and Raghav: Converging and Diverging

(Reposting from a thread as a fresh topic)

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I've been meaning to comment on this for a while, and trying to gather my own thoughts on all the Sunny and Raghav comparisons, both in show and in all our discussions here. Just a disclaimer, this is all coming from someone who's a huge fan of Sunny and what he brings to the show in terms of conflict and character, and I think he's being portrayed by a fabulous actor. Up until his suicide threat to get Kirti to run off with him, and the heavy misogyny we've seen in this week, I was pretty much on board for SunKi as well. Haan, badtameez hai- so what? Iss show mein kaun badtameez nahi hai? Even Pallavi, who's the most 'good' character in the show has said some pretty rude and unacceptable and judgemental things in the past, so none of that ever really bothered me. It's only the last couple of weeks of episodes that have me raging at him.

Honestly, I'm glad Pallavi didn't speak in Raghav's defence at Sunny's taunt today. She'd have no leg to stand on there, he is badtameez beyond belief, and besharam about it 🤷🏻‍♀️But there are a lot of reasons that Raghav's behaviour doesn't grate at me the same way Sunny's does.

I also just want to acknowledge that I know that I belong to a very tiny portion of the fandom who didn't really like Raghav right off the bat. His behaviour doesn't grate at me now, but there was a time I used to be as frustrated, if not more, at him as I am at Sunny these days. He's behaved in inexcusable ways that I can move on from only because I know this is fictional story. The first time I felt genuine affection for Raghav was when he was overwhelmed by guilt after finding out the truth about Sulochana, so I definitely don't intend to underplay any of the things he's done and I'm more than happy to give Sunny the same chance, if he shows the same inclinations. Even then, I have to say I find Sunny worse in many aspects.

First, the blatant misogyny. This was a trait Raghav appeared to have hints of in initial episodes, but they quickly toned it down and phased it out, and I'm glad for that. By the time the show found its groove, his issues with Pallavi stemmed significantly from who he thought she was as a person, and all the misunderstandings between them as individuals, rather than her gender.

Second, I agree with Pallavi's point of seeing how a person treats those 'below' them in terms of social stature. Raghav's been downright rude to his staff in the past, right from episode 2. But he's not been straight-up demeaning in the way Sunny was to Naidu the other day. Plus, not to forgive any kind of unnecessary rudeness, Raghav obviously has a lot of goodwill with his staff- he cares for them, helps them when in trouble, and is protective of them. They'll allow him some leeway (they shouldn't- bad behaviour is bad behaviour, full stop), and I kind of get it. It's like we give our friends the rights to mess with us in ways it would be downright unacceptable for strangers to. To behave the way Sunny did with someone else's employee is just...it makes me feel terrible. (That said, I've mentioned this in previous threads as well, but Raghav needs to learn to be more polite to his employees- as a boss to so many, the art of being firm but respectful is something he needs to hone, despite his good actions to them).

Third, I find the similarities between how Raghav treated Pallavi and Sunny treated Kirti absolutely fascinating. Both men acted in typically abusive ways that would alienate the women from their social support networks (predominantly families) by leveraging their weaknesses against them. Raghav leveraged her love for Nikhil to force her into a marriage, after which any reconciliation would be out of question. Sunny leveraged her affection for him by threatening to commit suicide to get her to run away and live on his terms. Atrocious, unforgivable behaviour by both, but what's telling to me, personally, is who they directed their behaviour at? For Raghav, it was directed at his enemy, the person responsible for miseries that have befallen the people he loves. For Sunny, he directed this at his girlfriend who he claims to love, who loves him back unconditionally. That's where things get scary for me to watch, because women married to men like him, who dole out abuse under the guise of love, have a tendency to end up battered or dead.

Pallavi's concern right now, it reminds me a lot of Sharda's panic when she walked into the wedding. She could see her daughter jumping off a cliff by tying herself into what was going to be an abusive and toxic marriage, and she was desperate to stop it. Right now, Pallavi is the only one who has seen Sunny for what he is, both how he behaved with her, and how she saw him behave with Kirti today. Raghav and Jaya have suspicions, sure, but she's the only one who knows. She's desperate to prevent her friend from marrying such a man, and I get it. I would absolutely try to intervene if my friend or sister was with someone like Sunny, even at the cost of my own relationship with them, for the sake of their own safety wellbeing. But Sharda couldn't stop Pallavi, and unless Kirti sees the reality, Pallavi won't be able to stop her either. This has to come from within.

Still, she's giving him a chance, the same way she gave one to Raghav. Raghav grabbed onto it to genuinely try and become better, and what will define Sunny's worthiness will be what he does with the opportunity. My guess is, he's not going to change much. His words and actions are not driven by any grudge or incident, but by his deep seated beliefs, which are very hard to change, but I'm interested to see if he does take the opportunity to grow here.

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Adding this because it came up in a lot of discussions below. I left this out initially because I wanted to focus on Sunny more than Raghav, but I think it's important to flag.

I have a theory about Raghav's abuse towards his staff. If we look at him in the first 10-15 episodes, and we look at him in episode 20 onwards, a lot of initial traits have been dropped. The strong MCP attitude, and the aggression towards staff is one of them, and I think this is intentional, because initial reception of the character was fairly critical. And it was well deserved, because his behaviour sucked.

In fact, I believe two scenes were added specifically to overcorrect for these traits:

1) the drunk lecture to Farhad about women being the backbone of society, to correct for the initial misogyny

2) the scene with his staff member whose sun fixed up his table tennis racket to emphasise how caring for his staff he is to correct for his behaviour towards his staff

Because honest to God, those two scenes serve absolutely no other purpose than to tell the audience, "Hum character thoda badal rahe hain, pehle waala ignore karo please"

But yes, I really don't like his behaviour to his staff, including Farhad. Chahe jitna bhi help kare, and they may be forgiving of it all because he does them right in other ways, you shouldn't talk to people like that. It's a legit character flaw, and I will not defend him, because he's wrong on that front, undoubtedly.

Beautifully summed up! 👏

A very interesting take. ❤️ Since watching the episode this morning, it has been churning in my head too.

You put it beautifully. 👌🏼 The best to me was your point on who their behaviour was pointed at. ‘Atrocious, unforgivable behaviour by both, but what's telling to me, personally, is who they directed their behaviour at? For Raghav, it was directed at his enemy, the person responsible for miseries that have befallen the people he loves. For Sunny, he directed this at his girlfriend who he claims to love, who loves him back unconditionally.’ Very true.

The other I observe, is what Pallavi mentioned in the jewellery fiasco. Raghav is what he is in your face. Unlike Sunny, who has shades depending on who is around him.

I found the inference of a ‘widow’, completely different in both cases too. To Raghav, who this widow has become his wife, it hadnt mattered even once. But Sunny uses it more like a derogatory term.

It is more like, the actions being similar in most cases, but the traits very different. If that makes sense...

And, the past does affect everyone, differently. To one, its forcing him to do anything to get the ‘love’ he yearned for; to the other, its forcing him to ‘hate’ anything he hadn't received or seen before.

Loved reading this bud🤗 And glad that you've made the post.

Agree with everything you've said about both sunny-raghav and how they are similar and different.

By now you already know my views on sunny😆 I too was up with sunki until the last 3/4 epis coz.of the live in vs marriage thing and plus I actually wanted to see how raghav gonna approve or disapprove someone like him for his own sister when he was expecting pallu to accept him and forgive him. But of course all these are out of the window now with the sudden change in sunny character.(pretty sure the character wasn't supposed to be negative but we can safely assume the reason why it did)

Yes both raghav-sunny have mistreated the house help. raghav even slapped harish multiple times on harish's first day of work and even slapped this other house help thinking he gave the diamonds to pallu. Not at all defending sunny just stating facts.Tbh I don't think pallu giving 2mths to sunny will be even explored 🤣 bas sunny-pallu showdown is what we'll get😈Although,Initially I was hoping to see them bonding and sunny finally realising ki having a certain eye color doesn't make a person automatically bad and vice-versa.

Anyways, to me personally,both raghav-sunny are irredeemable.Raghav after the truck incident and sunny after the last few epi. But since I love raghav toh I'll gush over him nonetheless😆and like you I too like Kush toh I'm gonna enjoy his evil sunny character for as long as I can😆

Oh my god this is such a brilliant post ! 👏

I am so glad you are calling out Raghav too!

Raghav now maybe husband of the year but before he was too much! Sunny was correct in reminding Pallu ki uske khud ka ghar seeshe ka hai.

The points of similarity posted by you is so true. I thought I am the only one thinking this way. Yes Raghav and sunny are similar. Just that sunny has a bit more crude way of speaking.

But Raghav in initial episodes was exactly like Sunny.

Raghav was too shown to be a misogynist. I remember in the first episode Raghav tells Pallavi." Women are better off in kitchen and shouldn't cross that line" . He had also told her women are incapable of handling business.

I cringed so bad.

They also tried to portray a playboy figure for Raghav and he also outright demeaned the first woman who was with him in the car.

But after few episodes the whole MCP attitude and playboy thing was nowhere to be seen. So obviously everyone forgot about it.

Raghav was also rude to his staff. The way he shouted at his servant when he showed concern for him was very rudein the first epi. He also acted rudely at certain times to other staff members.

The things he did to Pallavi were just unacceptable. From kidnapping her to throwing her infront of a truck!

Gosh! Writing all this makes me feel how these days we gush on Raghav when he has done such unacceptable things in the past!

The problem is ITV always loves a very flawed toxic male paired up with this sanskari bubbly girl troope. Who will come into his life and change him.

No wonder women love to stay in an abusive relationship and justify her man's nature thinking he will change for her. But sadly their life is not a serial and not everyone turns 360 degree convinently ! Men like these don't change and often end up abusing their Patners.

The only difference between Raghav and sunny that I feel is the part for love and loyalty.

RR does have an emotional quotient. But it is for limited people. Obviously now that he is in love with pallavi he will protect and love her at any cost.

Sunny seems to lack that maybe cause he was never in love with keerthi.

But the initial episode Raghav and sunny were no different!

I'm sure if sunny changes and becomes good. Everyone will soon start rooting for SunKi. Again a very problematic behaviour in us as fangirls

Originally posted by: BlueJayFire

Wow dear, am absolutely floored reading through your analogy. For #1, very very well said, after the initial few episodes Raghav took the gender quotient out of his plans to settle scores with Pallavi. The night she walked in asked for 30 days to win the challenge, pointing that he might have had ups and downs in his life and someone must have helped him. He connected was genuine to waive off if she wins. He kept giving her opportunities to prove herself. That is one thing I really liked about Raghav that stood out amongst the many worse things said and done.

#2, Raghav was pretty abusive and rude too with his staff. Recall how he slapped Gorilla when he failed to follow up on Keerthi? Or the way he yelled at Rama for showing care and concern, that its all fake and for money. He did change over time, could be influence of Pallavi or his best friend Farhad who always shows him the mirror. For Sunny, there isnt anyone like that to keep him honest if he goes down the wrong path. His friend was that MMS scandal guy. Forgot his name now.

#3 You are right, Raghav built his image on Pallavi based on MUs. else he had corrected that he was being judgemental after the ashram and catering scene. For Sunny, he loves Keerthi and being rude/abusive isn't just going to disappear overnight.

#4 Abortion drama - May be Raghav's name was involved hence he went on to clear his name. But like Farhad said, because its Pallavi it mattered. Why he didn't clear the Anjali MMS stuff..he doesn't care.? For Sunny, unless someone like Ved kidnaps her and threatens with something, we see the true love come out? But still, he will not be my choice for a life long relationship. He has no respect for women and he is judgemental based on power and position. I don't know why he keeps saying Keerthi has changed after moving with her brother who is rich. We got to see how he will change if at all he gets a lottery. he will ask if he had ever known a person called Keerthi..He is a good actor, I like his shrewdness just like Raghav. knows exactly where to hit whom. Tattoo artist do make good money. lol..[my rant is over. Friday afternoon jobless soul whiling away time.]

(Hope you don't mind me replying here, wanted to move this conversation out of the other thread)

Thanks for replying in such detail!

I have a theory about Raghav's abuse towards his staff. If we look at him in the first 10-15 episodes, and we look at him in episode 20 onwards, a lot of initial traits have been dropped. The strong MCP attitude, and the aggression towards staff is one of them, and I think this is intentional, because initial reception of the character was fairly criticised. In fact, I believe two scenes were added specifically to overcorrect for these traits:

1) the drunk lecture to Farhad about women being the backbone of society, to correct for the initial misogyny

2) the scene with his staff member whose sun fixed up his table tennis racket to emphasise how caring for his staff he is to correct for his behaviour towards his staff

Because honest to God, those two scenes serve absolutely no other purpose than to tell the audience, "Hum character thoda badal rahe hain, pehle waala ignore karo please"

But haan, I've said this pehle also, and in this post, so I fully agree. I really don't like his behaviour to his staff. Chahe jitna bhi help kare, and they may be forgiving of it all because he does them right in other ways, you shouldn't talk to people like that. It's a legit character flaw, and I will not defend him, because he's wrong on that front, undoubtedly.

I'll be so happy if Sunny gets the chance to redeem himself! I love the character. But what I've seen these two weeks, I just want him away from Kirti because all my sympathies to any woman who's with a man like him 😡

Originally posted by: Prriyam

A very interesting take. ❤️ Since watching the episode this morning, it has been churning in my head too.

You put it beautifully. 👌🏼 The best to me was your point on who their behaviour was pointed at. ‘Atrocious, unforgivable behaviour by both, but what's telling to me, personally, is who they directed their behaviour at? For Raghav, it was directed at his enemy, the person responsible for miseries that have befallen the people he loves. For Sunny, he directed this at his girlfriend who he claims to love, who loves him back unconditionally.’ Very true.

The other I observe, is what Pallavi mentioned in the jewellery fiasco. Raghav is what he is in your face. Unlike Sunny, who has shades depending on who is around him.

I found the inference of a ‘widow’, completely different in both cases too. To Raghav, who this widow has become his wife, it hadnt mattered even once. But Sunny uses it more like a derogatory term.

It is more like, the actions being similar in most cases, but the traits very different. If that makes sense...

And, the past does affect everyone, differently. To one, its forcing him to do anything to get the ‘love’ he yearned for; to the other, its forcing him to ‘hate’ anything he hadn't received or seen before.

I want to again emphasize, the reason I've accepted Raghav, and am willing to accept Sunny as well if he turns over a new leaf, is purely because it's a fictional character. Real life mein aise kaamon ki maafi ya redemption nahi hoti, irrespective of how legit the guilt is, and every woman (or man!) should keep themselves as far as possible from people like them, because relationships like these don't end well. I wish we one day reach a point in mainstream ITV where they don't rely on such toxic behaviour to generate tension, and as viewers, we should always call these things out, because how else will there ever be change?

Honestly, I think Sunny's 'vidhwa gareeb' comment today was just for exposition in front of Ved. This entire plotline seems to be set up just so Ved can get constant updates just by coincidence, without putting in effore.

Res

I am coming at night and commenting. Loved the post and it's something I've also been thinking about.

Originally posted by: OceanicHeart.

Oh my god this is such a brilliant post ! 👏

I am so glad you are calling out Raghav too!

Raghav now maybe husband of the year but before he was too much! Sunny was correct in reminding Pallu ki uske khud ka ghar seeshe ka hai.

The points of similarity posted by you is so true. I thought I am the only one thinking this way. Yes Raghav and sunny are similar. Just that sunny has a bit more crude way of speaking.

But Raghav in initial episodes was exactly like Sunny.

Raghav was too shown to be a misogynist. I remember in the first episode Raghav tells Pallavi." Women are better off in kitchen and shouldn't cross that line" . He had also told her women are incapable of handling business.

I cringed so bad.

They also tried to portray a playboy figure for Raghav and he also outright demeaned the first woman who was with him in the car.

But after few episodes the whole MCP attitude and playboy thing was nowhere to be seen. So obviously everyone forgot about it.

Raghav was also rude to his staff. The way he shouted at his servant when he showed concern for him was very rudein the first epi. He also acted rudely at certain times to other staff members.

The things he did to Pallavi were just unacceptable. From kidnapping her to throwing her infront of a truck!

Gosh! Writing all this makes me feel how these days we gush on Raghav when he has done such unacceptable things in the past!

The problem is ITV always loves a very flawed toxic male paired up with this sanskari bubbly girl troope. Who will come into his life and change him.

No wonder women love to stay in an abusive relationship and justify her man's nature thinking he will change for her. But sadly their life is not a serial and not everyone turns 360 degree convinently ! Men like these don't change and often end up abusing their Patners.

The only difference between Raghav and sunny that I feel is the part for love and loyalty.

RR does have an emotional quotient. But it is for limited people. Obviously now that he is in love with pallavi he will protect and love her at any cost.

Sunny seems to lack that maybe cause he was never in love with keerthi.

But the initial episode Raghav and sunny were no different!

I'm sure if sunny changes and becomes good. Everyone will soon start rooting for SunKi. Again a very problematic behaviour in us as fangirls

This!! 👏

@r I was also meaning to comment on it but forgot to add 😆 But I totally agree on this.Granted the girl was no good as per the typical itv land standard.Yes the girl was playing with raghav but raghav too was playing with her.How conveniently we've forgotten about all those initial incidents but blame sunny for the same😆 Sunny has invaded kirti's privacy on his entry epi so did raghav on multiple occasions with pallu.

There are so many similarities between the two characters so a comparison is a given.

Ps- I'm not at all defending sunny like some may think because I like Kush.😆

Originally posted by: SRKian

Loved reading this bud🤗 And glad that you've made the post.

Agree with everything you've said about both sunny-raghav and how they are similar and different.

By now you already know my views on sunny😆 I too was up with sunki until the last 3/4 epis coz.of the live in vs marriage thing and plus I actually wanted to see how raghav gonna approve or disapprove someone like him for his own sister when he was expecting pallu to accept him and forgive him. But of course all these are out of the window now with the sudden change in sunny character.(pretty sure the character wasn't supposed to be negative but we can safely assume the reason why it did)

Yes both raghav-sunny have mistreated the house help. raghav even slapped harish multiple times on harish's first day of work and even slapped this other house help thinking he gave the diamonds to pallu. Not at all defending sunny just stating facts.Tbh I don't think pallu giving 2mths to sunny will be even explored 🤣 bas sunny-pallu showdown is what we'll get😈Although,Initially I was hoping to see them bonding and sunny finally realising ki having a certain eye color doesn't make a person automatically bad and vice-versa.

Anyways, to me personally,both raghav-sunny are irredeemable.Raghav after the truck incident and sunny after the last few epi. But since I love raghav toh I'll gush over him nonetheless😆and like you I too like Kush toh I'm gonna enjoy his evil sunny character for as long as I can😆

I was so hoping you'd drop in here!!! My partner in loving Sunny in the face of the overwhelmingly negative response to the character! 🤗

@bold- not getting this plot will be a grievance I'll always hold against this show yaar 💔💔Kitna potential tha, iss plot aur iss character mein 😭😭

@red- of course, Raghav ko iss baat pe defend karna bhi nahi chahiye. He's wrong in that sense. I responded to this to another comment also, so I'm just going to copy-paste, because I feel really lazy about typing it out again 🙈🙈

I have a theory about Raghav's abuse towards his staff. If we look at him in the first 10-15 episodes, and we look at him in episode 20 onwards, a lot of initiat traits have been dropped. The strong MCP attitude, and the aggression towards staff is one of them, and I think this is intentional, because initial reception of the character was fairly criticised. In fact, I believe two scenes were added specifically to overcorrect for these traits:

1) the drunk lecture to Farhad about women being the backbone of society, to correct for the initial misogyny

2) the scene with his staff member whose sun fixed up his table tennis racket to emphasise how caring for his staff he is to correct for his behaviour towards his staff

Because honest to God, those two scenes serve absolutely no other purpose than to tell the audience, "Hum character thoda badal rahe hain, pehle waala ignore karo please"

But haan, I've said this pehle also, and in this post, so I fully agree. I really don't like his behaviour to his staff. Chahe jitna bhi help kare, and they may be forgiving of it all because he does them right in other ways, you shouldn't talk to people like that. It's a legit character flaw, and I will not defend him, because he's wrong on that front, undoubtedly.

Eventual bonding between Sunny and Pallavi is something I wanted so badly, and this week I've just been making my peace with the fact ki aisa kuch nahi milne waala. Our boy is gonna live the rest of his life thinking kanji aankhon waale log dicey hote hain... the more I think about the potential Sunny had, the more it upsets me. But khair, chhodo.

@blue- I agree. Real life mein, donon ki harkaton ki koi maafi nahi ho, no matter how much they change and grovel. If Pallavi was someone I knew IRL, I'd have kidnapped her and plonked her in Kohlapur myself, ki bas tu nikal jaa yahaan se. This is a story, and unfortunately, ITV doesn't take such crimes as seriously as they should, so the characters are still redeemable.

I actually quit the show at one point, and it was much before the truck scene- it was, in fact, the first pallu-sweat-wiping scene. It was so well executed, the chemistry was palpable, and yet....the idea of a woman being cornered on a lonely road, in the middle of the night, being cornered by a physically much stronger, angry, aggressive man...isn't it all of our worst nightmare? The scene completely shook me, andar se ghabrahat hui thi, and I pretty much stopped watching for a while. I quit again at the truck scene, it crossed every damn line and I was so, so angry, and that scene I've actually never watched. I saw the written update, and it pissed me off so much, I knew ki if I watch it, I'll never be able to give the show another chance. Frankly, it was Pallavi for whom I kept coming back to the show, because I really liked her.