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Sabhayata thumbnail
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Posted: 5 years ago

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar


This is actually not correct.


Kunti first asks Pandavas to go to kampliya for alms. That was when Vyasa goes to Pandavas AND Kunti and tells them about Panchali swayamvara. When they went to Kampilya they had ALL made up their minds what to do.


https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m01/m01172.htm


The drama they put on was likely for Panchali's benefit.


If anything, Arjuna was then to blame for clearly hankering after Panchali to the point "his weapon was in her chamber."


The popular interpretations NEVER show Vyasa's role on this, blaming Kunti/Yudhishtira instead. Some also blame Arjuna for consenting to it when it was ALL of them who planned it. The only reason to blame Arjuna in this is not that he made that statement, but that he forgot his obligations to his family after and did not keep a proper distance from Panchali. The shows never show this. Instead, they show HER as the lovesick idiot when it was him.

Imagine Pandavas planning to share Drau. This certainly doesn't look good for them and their current image. Imagine a show showing them planning all this😆.

Though personally i will let this be one of the many inconsistencies in MB. Because i don't find much relation between what is said here and what finally happens. As in what finally happens is quiet spontaneous even when Yudi's internal thought process is mentioned he only fears conflict among brother's. If it was all planned why would he fear conflict among brother's ?

Yudhishthira knew from their appearance what was going through their minds. O bull among men! He remembered Dvaipayana’s words. Fearing that conflict might arise between the brothers, the king said, “This fortunate Droupadi will be a wife to all of us.”’

.Though only thing that is certain is that all Pandavas fell in love or started lusting after Drau the moment they saw her. So they certainly weren't completly innocent as is shown in the tv shows.

Arjun as a lovesick idiot 😆. I love his character but majorly because of his warrior abilities and his other love stories. He is the only one character who actually has love stories. But again no one cares to show them.

Sabhayata thumbnail
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Posted: 5 years ago

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Sigh. AT is dead. Who's surprised with a show like this which calls Panchali "a thing" through Krishna's mouth?

AT cant be dead till i am there😆. Will find a new topic for discussion soon. But ya they have really exaggerated Krishna's role here. The thing is they have made all this so much about Radha Krishna that they now cant even show his stories with Rukmini and Satyabhama. 😡
Edited by Sabhayata - 5 years ago
1123225 thumbnail
Posted: 5 years ago

Originally posted by: Sabhayata

Imagine Pandavas planning to share Drau. This certainly doesn't look good for them and their current image. Imagine a show showing them planning all this😆.

Though personally i will let this be one of the many inconsistencies in MB. Because i don't find much relation between what is said here and what finally happens. As in what finally happens is quiet spontaneous even when Yudi's internal thought process is mentioned he only fears conflict among brother's. If it was all planned why would he fear conflict among brother's ?

Yudhishthira knew from their appearance what was going through their minds. O bull among men! He remembered Dvaipayana’s words. Fearing that conflict might arise between the brothers, the king said, “This fortunate Droupadi will be a wife to all of us.”’

.Though only thing that is certain is that all Pandavas fell in love or started lusting after Drau the moment they saw her. So they certainly weren't completly innocent as is shown in the tv shows.

Arjun as a lovesick idiot 😆. I love his character but majorly because of his warrior abilities and his other love stories. He is the only one character who actually has love stories. But again no one cares to show them.


@Bold. Dvaipayana's words.


It wasn't about simply conflict between brothers. Vyasa had his empire all planned out. He needed the Kuru Panchal alliance for that.


Pandavas desperately needed Drupada to get them out of their predicament.


I think Yudhishtira wondering about conflict between brothers was probably a reaction to seeing their reaction to Panchali. He needed to make sure none of them took an extra fancy to her. Which of course is what happened anyways with Arjuna and his "weapon."☺️😆

Edited by HearMeRoar - 5 years ago
1123225 thumbnail
Posted: 5 years ago

Originally posted by: Sabhayata

Ok let me post exactly what he said

The Parthas are on your father’s side and the Vrishnis are on your mother’s side. O bull among men! Know that both these sides are your own lineage. O son!2 Come with me now and the Pandavas will recognize you as a Kounteya who has been born before Yudhishthira. The five Pandavas will grasp your feet as brothers, together with the five sons of Droupadi and Subhadra’s unvanquished son.3 The kings and princes who have gathered together in the cause of the Pandavas and all the Andhakas and Vrishnis will grasp your feet. The kings, the wives of kings and the daughters of kings will bring gold, silver and earthen vessels, herbs, all kinds of seeds, all kinds of gems and creepers for your anointment.4 At the sixth point in time,5 Droupadi will have intercourse with you. Let the brahmanas who are acquainted with the four Vedas consecrate you today, assisted by the priest of the Pandavas,6 the five Pandava brothers who are bulls among men, Droupadi’s five sons, the Panchalas and the Chedis.

Now does it say anywhere in any text or version that Krishna didn't mean what he said. Or that he was just joking or saying random statements. Or that he was just manipulating things. Now its left to everyone's own interpretation of what Krishna meant here and what he was trying to do. Since no version mentions his thought process. You may think this was of no importance and he didn't mean anything and it was only manipulation that is fine. Same way some one can think that Krishna truly meant this and with everything he has done before if Karna had agreed this, he would have been made possible as well. No one interpretaion is right or wrong its everybody's own understanding of the character and the situation and truly how we understand the character to be. Trust me i have gone into endless discussion about this portion. Because there are many different interpretations and like i said all depends on individuals outlook about this epic.

My only point is inspite of any interpretation i find this wrong. Even if he was lying, luring , manipulating or just saying random things he let down Drau here by saying this. But again that doesn't mean he didn't care for her or wasn't her best friend . He was but no relationship in this epic is perfect. See i believe Bhima cared for her the most but i still wont justify the times her let her down.Because i view this epic as full of imperfect characters and imperfect relationships. That is all.


The above is the Debroy translation.


KMG translates: "During the sixth period, Draupadi also will come to thee (as a wife)


SANSKRIT:


shashte ca tvaam tathaa kaale draupady upagamishyati (5.138.15c)


__________________


POINT ONE:


Upagamishyati = will come to you


Upagam can also mean sex.


https://blog.anandway.com/post/Lesson-in-spoken-Sanskrit


Baalakah gachhati. Baalakah gamishyati. Baalakah gatva.

A boy goes. A boy will go. A boy went.


https://www.sanskrittranslations.com/2006/11/

This, too, will pass = एतदपि गमिष्यति = etadapi gamishyati


To make it clear, the exact same phrase is used in Ramayana to Sita.

alam vriiDena vaidehi dharma taapa kR^itena ca | harSho ayam devi vispaShTo yaH tvaam upagamiShyati ||


'Oh, Lady, which pleasure you are going to get as a queen, for that queen-hood is fast approaching you, that pleasure is evident... why then you presume that marrying me is anti-canonical, and thus be ashamed...'

__________________


POINT TWO:


Shashte kaale / Sixth period is not sixth YEAR. Sixth period of the day is the time reserved for meditation and learning. Or relaxation. No, not sex because it in fact forbidden during daytime.


during the sixth, he may engage himself in his favourite amusements or in self-deliberation;


https://www.wisdomlib.org/hinduism/book/kautilya-arthashastra/d/doc365597.html


If a twice-born man commits an unnatural offence with a male, or has intercourse with a female, in an ox-cart, or in water, or during the day,—he should take a bath along with his clothes.—(174)


https://www.wisdomlib.org/hinduism/book/manusmriti-with-the-commentary-of-medhatithi/d/doc202068.html


__________________


What Debroy does is take the upagam as sex and say Draupadi will have sex with you in the sixth period. He doesn't consider the shastra rules in translating.


KMG is actually more (not completely) correct, but he adds "as wife" which Krishna never said.


Basically, the Sanskrit verse just says Draupadi will approach you in the sixth period.


In both Debroy and KMG's defense, Krishna probably intended that dual meaning to leave himself a loophole 😆 just in case Karna was fool enough to imagine Draupadi would actually have sex with him.


I can just imagine Krishna going, "That's not what I said, mate."🤣


At the end of the day, both Krishna and Karna knew that Krishna had no legal standing to make that offer. He had no foundation to even make it a statement of fact since shastras expressly forbade older brother marrying younger brother's wife.

Edited by HearMeRoar - 5 years ago
1123225 thumbnail
Posted: 5 years ago

@Sabhayata


There are lots of things to blame Krishna for. That offer was crass, but it was in no way, shape, or form a legit offer.


It's not a matter of interpretation, either. Text doesn't have to have a narrator say as a sotto voce aside: Now, Krishna had no legal standing to make that offer. He didn't as a matter of FACT, not interpretation. He was not related to Panchali in any way except by their emotional bond.


Also factual is the matter that the phrase has 2 meanings.


------


That offer to emotionally manipulate Karna was simply clever politicking or (more likely IMO) taunting.

Edited by HearMeRoar - 5 years ago
ScorcherOfFoes thumbnail
Posted: 5 years ago

I don't know if this is a little off topic, but I'd like to interject with respect to Arjuna and Draupadi's relationship. I read here that Arjuna apparently didn't care for her. I don't claim to be an expert in the epic and have read only the Adi Parva linearly while I read the other Parvas in part, until now, my impression has been that he does care about her, very much. I don't have citations to back every one of my claims but I'll still write what I know first-hand and secondhand.

In the beginning, when they met, he along with Bhima stands up to defend her despite not having to, since the kings are ready to let Arjuna go. They only want to get to Draupadi. Here is the citation where they explicitly state that-

"O kings! If this lady does not wish one of us as her husband, let us throw her into the fire and return to our kingdoms. Though that Brahmana has done injury to kings out of his impertinence and greed, he should not still be killed. After all, our kingdoms, lives, riches, sons, grandsons and all our other wealth exist for the sake of Brahmanas."


Next is the controversial statement about Arjuna suggesting polygamy. Which makes little sense. Here's the citation-

Arjuna said, “O king of men! Since this is not the law that others accept, do not make me tread this path of adharma. You should marry her first, followed by the mighty-armed Bhima of wonderful deeds, then I, then Nakula after me and finally the energetic Sahadeva. O king! Vrikodara, I and the twins think that the lady should be yours. This is the state of affairs. After reflecting on it, please do what is appropriate, in accordance with dharma and fame and the welfare of the king of Panchala. Instruct us. We are all waiting for your command.”


KMG apparently translates this better. But here it seems that it is Arjuna who first proposed Polyandry. But that makes no sense since the very next sentence he contradicts it himself. And then asks Yudi to make a decision. If he already thinks Polyandry should be done, why deflect it to Yudi again? And then, there's the specific mention of Drupada, who we know was none too pleased with the Polyandry. Besides nobody reacts to Arjuna's possible suggestion of Polyandry. And later we get into Yudi's head-

"Panchali’s charming form was created by the creator himself. It beguiled all living beings and was supreme to all others. Kunti’s son Yudhishthira knew from their appearance what was going through their minds. O bull among men! He remembered Dvaipayana’s words. Fearing that conflict might arise between the brothers, the king said, “This fortunate Droupadi will be a wife to all of us.”’

To me, this reads like a decision Yudi took by himself. He remembers Vyasa's words and fears conflict but if his younger brother had already suggested this solution why doesn't Yudi think of those words? Why are Vyasa's old words mentioned but Arjuna's latest suggestion isn't? It clearly seems to me like a decision Yudi took based on a few facts, like the evident attraction every Pandava had for Draupadi and the fact that it could be a cause for conflict. Also, Kunti plays no part in this except later where it seems she's supportive of the decision. Further, all the Pandavas actually think about this decision.

Vaishampayana said, ‘Hearing the words of their eldest brother, all of Pandu’s sons, of infinite energy, were pleased and began to think about the purport of those words.

If Arjuna had already suggested it, this would have come much earlier. For me the sequence of events is that Arjuna actually suggested that Yudi alone should marry her, something that seems to be the collective decision of all four Pandavas but fearing conflict, Yudi decides on Polyandry instead.


As for Arjuna having weapons in Draupadi's room, that's not true. It's Yudi who was 'lying' with Draupadi in the armory, because reasons. Here's the citation-

‘On hearing the words, the mighty-armed one told the brahmana not to fear. But Dharmaraja Yudhishthira was then lying with Krishna in the room where the great-souled Pandavas kept their weapons."


Moving further into the Dyut Sabha, the one statement of Arjuna was very much important according to me. But it didn't free the Pandavas. Duryodhana only offered to free Draupadi. This is Duryodhana's offer-

Dhritarashtra’s son smiled and spoke these words to the daughter of the king of Panchala, “O Yajnaseni! Let the question now be placed before the immensely powerful Bhima, Arjuna, Sahadeva and your husband Nakula. Let them reply to your words. O Panchali! Let them declare before all these aryas that Yudhishthira is not your lord. They must establish Dharmaraja as a liar.You will then be freed from servitude."

He is offering to free her from servitude on the condition that one of the Pandavas declares that Yudhishtira is not her lord. Things happen in between but I will come straight to Arjuna's reply.


Arjuna said, “This great-souled King Dharmaraja, Kunti’s son, was certainly our master when he first played with us as stake. But whose lord was he, once he had lost himself? O assembled Kurus! All of you should decide that.”’

Duryodhana's condition is that one of the Pandavas should say that Yudi was not Panchali's Lord. Arjuna fullfills this. And Panchali is by Duryodhana's own words, free. Immediately after this some omens occur, and Dhritrashtra who didn't move a muscle until now, is actually nudged into action. If we look at this rationally it's clear that Arjuna's words at least in part, spurred Dhritrashtra. Not only that, they actually shut Duryodhana up. He couldn't prevent Draupadi from doing anything now since by his own words and Arjuna's Draupadi was no longer in his control. She could do what she wanted. If this isn't the case what stopped Duryodhana from arguing with Vidura again? His whole plan was being undone and he just kept quiet for no reason? I find that hard to believe. For me, the reason is that he was trapped with his own words.


Another thing I would like to point out in this scenario is the similarity in Arjuna and Draupadi's thought process. Here's the citation of Draupadi's words regarding Yudhishtira in Dyut Sabha-

Droupadi replied, “Though he is himself unskilled, the king was challenged in this sabha by those who are skilled, evil-minded and deceitful, those who love the game of dice. How can it be said he chose voluntarily? The pure-hearted and foremost one among the Kurus and the Pandavas was robbed of his senses by inclinations towards deceit. He has understood everything only after he has been won and after the gambling is over. In this assembly hall are Kurus who are the lords of their sons and daughters-in-law. Let all of them examine my words and answer my question in the appropriate way.”

Here are Arjuna's words to Bheem when the latter wants to burn his hands-


"The king was challenged and he followed the dharma of the kshatriyas. He gambled because of the desires of the enemy."


Both say the same thing. He was challenged and decieved. But later in Vana Parva and many other times Draupadi makes it clear that she (rightfully) blames Yudhishtira. And on 17th day Arjuna too makes his feelings known. So it seems both privately blame Yudhishtira but publicly defended him.


Further in Vana Parva, according to KMG, after Krishna announced that all her enemies will be killed, Draupadi looks to Arjuna for reassurance. When he leaves, she speaks a whole paragraph about how much she misses him, in the presence of her other husbands, but this isn't about her. When Arjuna returns from Indra-loka, he brings jewelry for her. When he hands it to her she is explicitly stated as his 'love', Sutasoma's mother. Further down the line in Virat Yudh, a very interesting conversation takes place between Arjuna and Karna where the former specifically mentions Panchali.

“O Karna! You uttered many proud words in the midst of the assembly hall, to the effect that there was no one who was your equal in war. Disregarding all of dharma, you spoke harsh words. But I think that your wish is impossible to accomplish. You ignored me and spoke words earlier. O Radheya! Now, with me and in the midst of these Kurus, make that true. You watched when evil-souled ones oppressed Panchali in the assembly hall. You will now reap the fruits of that. Being bound down by the noose of dharma, my rage was restrained earlier. O Radheya! You will now witness the victory of my anger in battle. O Karna! Now fight with me and let all the Kurus and their soldiers witness it.”


Later too, Krishna mentions to Sanjaya that Karna's words in the assembly hall, were buried in Arjuna's heart and hurt him. (I can't quote verbatim here). There is no one who knows Arjuna's heart as well as Krishna.

On 17th day of battle when Yudi and Arjuna argue, the latter mentions Draupadi again, airing his resentment regarding the sharing that happened years ago. He says something like- "Sitting in Draupadi's bed, you insult me."

We learn from Sanjaya that when Krishna, Arjuna, Draupadi and Satyabhama are sitting together, no one is allowed to interrupt them. This clearly speaks of a close friendship between the duo of Arjuna and Draupadi.


These are some things that I know, as of yet. To me it seems like Arjuna did care about Draupadi though like most other stuff he wasn't exactly very verbal or expressive. But more importantly, not only were they spouses, but close friends too. She had a close, unique bond with her third and allegedly dearest husband, which is subtly shown in the epic.

Agni_Jytsona thumbnail
Posted: 5 years ago

1) Polyandry was vyasa s brainchild. All the pandavas including Arjuna already knew about it even before they left for Swamyvaar. That potter house incident was just a set up for panchali.


While the illustrious Pandavas were living disguised in the abode of the Brahmana, Vyasa, the son of Satyavati, once went to see them. Those chastisers of foes, beholding him coming rose up and stepped onward to receive him. Saluting him reverentially and worshipping him also the Pandavas stood in silence with joined hands. Thus worshipped by them the sage became gratified. He asked them to be seated, and cheerfully addressing them said, 'Ye slayers of foes, are ye living in the path of virtue and according to the scriptures? Do ye worship the Brahmanas? Ye are not, I hope, backward in paying homage unto those that deserve your homage?' The illustrious Rishi, after this, spoke many words of virtuous import, and after discoursing upon many topics of great interest, he said, 'An illustrious Rishi, living in a certain hermitage, had a daughter of tender waist, fair lips, and fine eye-brows, and possessing every accomplishment. As a consequence of her own acts (in a past life) the fair maid became very unfortunate. Though chaste and beautiful, the damsel obtained not a husband. With a sorrowful heart she thereupon began to practise ascetic penances with the object of obtaining a husband. She soon gratified by her severe asceticism the god Sankara (Mahadeva), who became propitious unto her and said unto that illustrious damsel, 'Ask thou the boon thou desirest! Blest be thou! I am Sankara prepared to give thee what thou wilt ask.' Desirous of benefiting herself, the maid repeatedly said unto the supreme lord, 'O give me, a husband endued with every accomplishment.' Then Isana (Mahadeva), that foremost of all speakers, replied unto her, saying, 'O blessed one, thou shall have five husbands from among the Bharata princes.' Thus told, the maiden said unto the god who had given her that boon, 'O lord, I desire to have only one husband through thy grace.' The god then addressed her again and said these excellent words, 'Thou hast, O girl, said full five times, 'Give me (a) husband.' Thou shalt, therefore, in another life have five husbands!' Ye princes of Bharata's line, that damsel of celestial beauty hath

p. 344

been born in the line of Drupada. The faultless Krishna of Prishata's line hath been appointed to be the wife of you all. Ye mighty ones, go therefore, to the capital of the Panchalas and dwell ye there. There is no doubt that having obtained her as wife ye shall be very happy.'


https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m01/m01172.htm


2) In vana parva drapaudi does not looks at arjuna for any of assurance or anything. It was just that arjuna was trying to divert krishna from the matter at hand by praising him. Panchali trumped him and made krishna see the need of the hour which led to the latter reaffirming his stand on the matter. That look was of triumphant and not anything else.

3). About the missing arjuna portion. Then we have to understand the context. That incident was narrated only because janemya ask vaishampanya to narrate an incident where pandavas and Panchali miss arjuna. Even then if you check the original Sanskrit verse then panchali mention two people arjuna and krishna

4) about krishna panchali satyabhama and arjuna s scene that the only that but stands out in that sequence is this part -

‘“Vasudeva said, ‘O Sanjaya! In the presence of the foremost among the Kurus and in Drona’s hearing, speak these words to the intelligent Dhritarashtra. “Offer a large number of sacrifices and donate stipends to the brahmanas. Enjoy yourselves with your sons and wives. A great danger confronts you. Distribute your riches among deserving ones. Have sons born out of love. Do good deeds towards those you love. The king132 will soon be victorious. That old debt is still impaled in my heart, because I have not repaid it. When I was far away, Krishna cried out, ‘Govinda!’133

Krishna for krishnaa


Arjuna probably pinned for panchali. Panchali certainly never pinned for him.

Arjuna was her friend among her husbands just like bheem was her confidant and sahadev wad her supporter. She shared different relationship with all her husbands . Neither was more special than the others.

If i have to name a person who was her friend cum confidant cum biggest supporter then it would be krishna.


Lastly i firmly believe that neither of her husbands deserved her.

1123225 thumbnail
Posted: 5 years ago

I generally don't respond to Arjuna-Panchali comments because while I like them separately, I don't like them together. As a couple, she gets cuts down to prop him up.


1. As @KP said, polyandry was preplanned. All Pandavas knew it because Vyasa told them to do it. Drama was played for Panchali's benefit.


2. Arjuna's weapon in the chamber where Yudhishtira was lying with Panchali can only be taken to mean Arjuna approached her for intimacy out of turn. Because Gandeev was not yet in the picture, and there wouldn't be merely one set of bow and arrows in the palace. Arjuna could've borrowed from any guard. Also, armory would have guards who would've told him the king and queen were inside😆. So yeah, a logical interpretation would be Arjuna went to Panchali with expectations which were not exactly proper.


3. The scene after Subhadra's return: the sequence of Arjuna's visits was something like this - Yudhishtira, Panchali, THEN Kunti. Imagine that... he took Subhadra to meet Panchali before the mother. Not only that, why in the world did he apologize unless he did something before which needed Panchali's forgiveness? Another marriage in those days was nothing to apologize for, and even if that were the case, wouldn't his 2nd visit have been to his mother? Plus, Panchali's reaction has been mistranslated by almost everyone. The Sanskrit version says Panchali said things "pranayat." That is, out of love. Not jealousy.


I think he was apologizing for the misbehavior which got him exiled. She refused to relent, so he sent Subhadra.


4. Arjuna-Panchali-Krishna dynamic is very interesting. Arjuna tried to cajole Krishna into doing things Panchali didn't approve of. She succeeded in making Krishna see things her way. She then threw a speaking glance at Arjuna who once admitted defeat and the second time, tried again, but Krishna said he'd do what needed to be done, anyway.


5. Panchali missing Arjuna. Janmejaya actually orders the narrator to describe how Pandavas and Panchali were missing Arjuna. Since Vaishampayana's dakshina came from the king, he obliged. The wording is subtle mockery from Vaishampayana. He actually says Panchali preferred being sexually assaulted in the dice hall than have Arjuna off on the trip! Also, she starts by saying she misses Arjuna and ends by saying she misses Pundarikaksha 😆 - Krishna, not Arjuna.


Centuries of fan fiction and more recently, TV shows have made Panchali into a lovesick puppy which she never was. In fact, most of the romantic idiocy comes from Arjuna's side in the actual text. Unfortunately, audiences then and now prefer the man to have the upper hand.

Edited by HearMeRoar - 5 years ago
ScorcherOfFoes thumbnail
Posted: 5 years ago

What you believe is your choice, i'm not here to change that.


1) Vyasa does seem to be pretty insistent on it. But the Pandavas' reaction to that particular story isn't mentioned. There's no place where it's mentioned that they decide on Polyandry. It's only after they see Draupadi, that Yudhishtira seriously thinks about it and then later, the Pandavas too. This is all interrupted by Krishna's arrival and later they just go back to daily tasks. It's only brought up again before Drupada. In fact there's no hard evidence of whether Draupadi even knew on that night. Kunti's own reaction to Yudhishtira's decision is completely missing. It's only later that before Drupada that Yudhishtira says their mother 'ordered' this, which isn't exactly the case. It was Yudhishtira who decided on Polyandry, not Kunti.

2) Why would Arjuna try to divert Krishna? As far as I remember, Arjuna speaks of Krishna's deeds, that's all. After this Krishna makes a very big declaration of love/friendship towards Arjuna. "I am yours and you are mine. He who follows you, follows me etc." And hr is still angry. After that Draupadi laments to him which includes every injustice that happened to Pandavas right from Bhima's poisoning, and Krishna makes her a promise of death and destruction. After this it is written that she looks 'obliquely' at Arjuna, who does reassure her. The text doesn't say that it was a triumphant look.


Hearing those words of Achyuta in reply, Draupadi looked obliquely at her third husband (Arjuna). And, O mighty king, Arjuna said unto Draupadi, 'O thou of beautiful coppery eyes, grieve not! O illustrious one, it shall be even as the slayer of Madhu hath said! It can never be otherwise, O beautiful one!'


There's further evidence of Panchali herself thinking Arjuna along with Krishna is her protector. Even before this Dusshasana says something like- neither Jishnu, not Vishnu will protect you.


Draupadi replied, "Though I am so powerful, why doth the king of Sauvira yet consider me so powerless. Well-known as I am, I cannot, from fear of violence, demean myself before that prince. Even Indra himself cannot abduct her for whose protection Krishna and Arjuna would together follow, riding in the same chariot."


3) This is what Janmejaya asks- ‘O illustrious one! When my great-grandfather Partha left Kamyaka forest, what did the Pandavas200 do without Savyasachi? It seems to me that the great archer, the vanquisher of enemy armies, was their refuge, like Vishnu is that of the Adityas. Without him, who is the equal of Indra in valour and has never withdrawn from the field of battle, how did my brave grandfathers spend their time in the forest?’ - He asks how they spent their time with Arjuna gone. It's not as if he's asking him whether they missed him or not. Even if he did, that doesn't make the section less valid, since there are a lot of parts of the story that Janmejaya asks for.

As for the mention of Krishna in Panchali's portion, I don't see any.


‘In particular, Panchali remembered the husband who was in the middle, the brave one who was absent. She told the foremost of the Pandavas, “In the absence of the two-armed Arjuna, the equal of the many-armed Arjuna and the best of the Pandavas, this forest seems cheerless to me. Wherever I look, the earth seems to be empty to me. This forest, with its many marvels and blossoming trees, no longer seems to be attractive in Savyasachi’s absence. This Kamyaka is as blue as monsoon clouds and is frequented by elephants in rut. But without Pundarikaksha,204 it has no charm. The twang of his bow is like the roar of the thunder. O king! I remember Savyasachi and without him, I cannot find any peace of mind.”

She never speaks of Krishna. If you're speaking of the Pundarikaksha part, it's also Arjuna's name, since he too is described as having 'lotus petal' like eyes. Something that seems to be a common descriptive term for people with beautiful eyes.


4) Even in the citation you posted, after that very sentence, Krishna goes on to speak of Arjuna-


That old debt is still impaled in my heart, because I have not repaid it. When I was far away, Krishna cried out, ‘Govinda!’133 Savyasachi’s Gandiva bow is full of power and is invincible. He has an enmity with you and that is the reason I am helping him now. With me as an aide, who wishes to challenge Partha, even if it were to be Purandara himself, unless because of destiny, his time has come? He can raise the earth with his arms. He can angrily burn down these beings. He can dislodge the thirty gods from heaven. Who can defeat Arjuna in battle? Among the gods, asuras, men, yakshas, gandharvas and serpents, I do not see anyone who is capable of withstanding the Pandava in battle."


For me it's the two Krishnas or Krishna and Arjuna for Krishnaa.

As for the Krishna-Arjuna-Draupadi-Satyabhama part.

Here's the citation-


‘Sanjaya said, “O king! O descendant of the Bharata lineage! Listen to me and I will tell you how I found Krishna and Dhananjaya and what those two brave ones said. O king! After purifying myself, I entered the quarters of those gods among men, looking at my toes and joining my hands in salutation. Abhimanyu and the twins are not allowed entry into the abode where the two Krishnas, and Krishna127 and the beautiful Satyabhama, reside. Both of them were drunk with liquor and both had their bodies smeared with sandalwood. They wore garlands, excellent garments and were adorned with divine ornmanets. The two destroyers of enemies were seated on a large and golden couch, which was covered with many carpets. I saw that Keshava’s feet were on Arjuna’s lap, while the great-souled Arjuna’s were on Krishna and Satya.128


This seems very much like friends relaxing with each other. We are not Privy to what conversation the four had, but it seems like a very intimate setting, that to me implies very close friendship.


I don't know about pining, since they were married to each other. But I believe if there was any longing it was mutual. Whether he deserved her or not is a subjective opinion. I believe he did. You believe he didn't. But the text clearly speaks of a close relationship and intellectual compatibility. Just as it speaks of Krishna himself having great love for Arjuna, which is spoken of multiple times, in greatly superlative terms. Now, if you believe that any positive feelings the characters have for Arjuna is narrative bias because the story was being told to Arjuna's descendant, well, then it invalidates the entire story. But that's your perspective. For me, Krishna, Arjuna and Draupadi, all three were a team. Both Krishna and Draupadi loved Arjuna very much, though in different ways. Which was returned by Arjuna.

Agni_Jytsona thumbnail
Posted: 5 years ago

Arjuna and panchali were friends i never denied that all i don't agree is the age old fanfiction that panchali preferred Arjuna over her other husbands or she pinned or lamented for him which she didn't. He pinned for her not the other way around . For panchali arjuna was as special as bheem or sahadev. Nothing more nothing less

Arjuna knew about the Polyandry thing and he went along with it. He was not the poor he who was betrayed by mother and big brother He was as much part of it as yudhishtra and his other brothers.

If one reads vana parva conversation arjuna was clearly trying to divert krishna s attention. Panchali trumps him in his game. That look was of triumphant not of asking assurance.

This is the first time i am hearing Arjuna having a mame pudrikaksha. Krishna being pudrikaksha is more probable imho

Krishna mentioning arjuna hardly says anything apart from that nobody can defeat Arjun as lomg as krishna is with him

Plus one thing to note is that krishna claim enimity against kauravas because of panchali. And the goes on to say that he is only helping Arjuna because he also has enimity against kauravas. Basically for krishna Krishnaa takes more importance than arjuna.

As i said Arjuna was friend bheem was confidant and sahadev was supporter. Nobody was more important than the other

Krishna was all the three for her.

Edited by Krishnapanchali - 5 years ago

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