꧁༺ | ꧁•⊹Ishita⊹•꧂ AT # 1 - Page 13

]

Originally posted by: Krishnapanchali

That was not just "one thing" sabhayaya. It was a very important statement at that juncture and the context in which it was spoken. He was not merely supporting his brother dearest against duryodhan. He was supporting and picking yudhishtra over panchali and throwing her in the line of fire. It meant a lot. .

And no both krishna and drishtdyum were there in the battlefield for 18 days of war. Drishtdyum was commander in chief who led at the forefront for 18 days of war. Krishna was there too. Facing everything just so that both of them can fullfilll their respective promises. There words were not just mere words . These two guys actually supported panchali s ideas of justice and punishment throwout against yudhishtra against everyone else something that bheem didn't

But other statements and actions are not important. All rest of the things he did are not important. Even Krishna agreed for peace forgetting Drau's woes.

Nonetheless the epic is not dictated by one incident alone but several. And in most Bhima shines especially when it comes to Drau.

The list is end less of things he said or did in support and for Drau. Neither Kirshna nor Dhrisht nor Arjuna can even compare as its not even upto interpretation its clearly written what he said and did. If there is any who remembered Drau's hardships as much as Drau its Bhima. For me the conversation and intimacy that Bhima and Drau shared during Kichaka incident is enough proof to show the depth of their relationship. Something she never shared with any other Pandav.

Originally posted by: Sabhayata

Arrey but how Krishna and Drau's relationship of friends, companion and adviser be compared to you and Tom cruise when you have probably even never met him in real life?

See i am not saying he didn't care about Drau. He did. But that doesn't mean he was perfect. I don't view any character as perfect. He said and did wrong things as well. It is one case here where i find him wrong as in wronging Drau. They do share other beautiful moments as well No doubt.

Yes the relations between Krishna n Draupadi and me and Tom Cruise are different, but the right that I have over Tom Cruise is the same as what Krishna had over Draupadi, which is a big zero. So my offer of Tom Cruise or Krishna's offer of Draupadi have equal importance which is nil.

I don't consider Krishna perfect either, he was far from it. But in this particular instance he was just saying things without any standing.

Even Karna understood this, he wasn't dumb either, he replied in the same manner stating that is he got the state, he would have no option but to hand it over to Duryodhan, I mean come on would be have really done that had he got the option? Would Duryodhan accept a charity from his charity case? Those were just exchange of words just like Krishna's offer to fight from Pandavas side for the first 10 days

Originally posted by: Sabhayata

Nonetheless moving on 😊.Why is this AT so dead? Let me start another discussion😆

So i caught up yesterday with all the episodes. So now all the blame of Drau marrying five Pandavas goes to Kunti😡. So again blame Kunti for the lust / love or the decision Pandavs made. I guess its easier to blame a woman for the sins of men. I know its a popular theory but none either KMG or Critical edition says that. Both show Kunti was genuinely unaware and was genuinely miserable at what she said and asks Yudi for an advice.

Infact to Yudi's credit he does say that Arjuna should marry her in accordance with all the rituals.

Its Arjuna who says no and says either all of us will marry her or you alone. But since Yudi know that all Pandavas are lusting after Drau or are in love with her however one wants to put it hence Yudi in order to keep his brother's together says all 5 will marry her.

So if any blame should got it should go to Pandvas alone and not to the women neither Kunti nor Drau as they were either innocent or silent spectator.

Nonethelss whait i wanted to ask you guys is that what do you make of Drau's silence in the epic regarding this? She is also shown to be happy by the end of the day. None of other version of the epic have Drau saying anything or complaining. Is it because story is being told to Arjuna's great grandson and hence they cant have Drau complaining even if she did? or was Drau genuinely ok? Of course no one can say what really happened thousands of years ago😆. But Drau is quiet curt to Yudi and rightfully so at many times in the epic she isn't silent then so her silence here may mean that she was genuinely happy or ok with the mmarriage hence didn't complain. What do you guys think?

This is actually not correct.

Kunti first asks Pandavas to go to kampliya for alms. That was when Vyasa goes to Pandavas AND Kunti and tells them about Panchali swayamvara. When they went to Kampilya they had ALL made up their minds what to do.

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m01/m01172.htm

The drama they put on was likely for Panchali's benefit.

If anything, Arjuna was then to blame for clearly hankering after Panchali to the point "his weapon was in her chamber."

The popular interpretations NEVER show Vyasa's role on this, blaming Kunti/Yudhishtira instead. Some also blame Arjuna for consenting to it when it was ALL of them who planned it. The only reason to blame Arjuna in this is not that he made that statement, but that he forgot his obligations to his family after and did not keep a proper distance from Panchali. The shows never show this. Instead, they show HER as the lovesick idiot when it was him.

Originally posted by: Sabhayata

Arrey but how Krishna and Drau's relationship of friends, companion and adviser be compared to you and Tom cruise when you have probably even never met him in real life?

See i am not saying he didn't care about Drau. He did. But that doesn't mean he was perfect. I don't view any character as perfect. He said and did wrong things as well. It is one case here where i find him wrong as in wronging Drau. They do share other beautiful moments as well No doubt.

Legal right is a diff thing. If you consider Krishna God, he can do no wrong. If you consider him man, then he had no legal right to offer her. Period. He knew it. Karna knew it.

It was plain trash talk. No, Krishna wasn't above it. He's the one who taunted Yudhishtira by saying Arjuna has a big d****, and that's why he's always at war.

Manipulation is also possible, but Karna wasn't Yudhishtira to be so easily manipulated. I'd think Krishna would know it. I think it was mockery.

Best part is Krishna actually left himself an out just in case Karna did buy it😆. A lot of Krishna's words have 2 meanings. See the part about Arjuna's d*** above; the word pindike has 2 meanings. "Upagamishyati" verse also has 2 meanings. "Will have sex with you" or "will come to you in the sixth period of the day (during which sex is forbidden by shastras as it is supposed to be for learning).

@Sabhayata

The Krishna-Panchali snippet prior to him going with peace proposal actually has her saying kill those who don't show remorse.. The response has him saying he WILL kill the enemy. To the point that Arjuna gets huffy and asks if Krishna is actually for peace.

Krishna also later tells Vidura that he came with peace proposal as PR for Pandavas. War was inevitable.

So no, he didn't forget his promise to Panchali.

Thing with shows and later books is that they can't imagine a God figure placing more importance on Panchali's words than on people like Karna who for reasons which totally escape me is considered a hero by some (I mean... poisoning a child, conspiring to commit sexual assault... what's not to like?). So the showmakers/novelists twist things into something else.

None of this is to say Krishna was perfect. FAR from it. But that offer was not the negative it's widely cited as. Nor was the peace proposal in any way, shape, or form forgetting Panchali's woes. There are much worse things to blame Krishna for: Subhadraharan and Khandavadahana come to mind.

Re: why Panchali didn't complain. According to the story Vyasa tells Drupada, Shri/Panchali already knew what the plan was. So did Krishna.

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m01/m01200.htm

Which kind of makes me wonder what kind of a dumb chap was Drupada😆 not to realise all these conspiracies were going on around him.

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

]

What's the party for?😆

Sigh. AT is dead. Who's surprised with a show like this which calls Panchali "a thing" through Krishna's mouth?

Originally posted by: Krishnapanchali

The point here is he didn't meant that at all. He is the same guy who promised panchali the punishment of chandal chaukdi. He is the same guy who asked Sanjaya to warn dritrashtra of the consequence of hurting panchali. Panchali was his best friend. Karna was an enemy. So his words to his bestie holds more importance more truth. He was playing karna that s it. Lying to him. Manipulating him. Krishna was certainly wrong in subdhara haran fiasco. But here it was pure manipulation.

The Parthas are on your father’s side and the Vrishnis are on your mother’s side. O bull among men! Know that both these sides are your own lineage. O son!2 Come with me now and the Pandavas will recognize you as a Kounteya who has been born before Yudhishthira. The five Pandavas will grasp your feet as brothers, together with the five sons of Droupadi and Subhadra’s unvanquished son.3 The kings and princes who have gathered together in the cause of the Pandavas and all the Andhakas and Vrishnis will grasp your feet. The kings, the wives of kings and the daughters of kings will bring gold, silver and earthen vessels, herbs, all kinds of seeds, all kinds of gems and creepers for your anointment.4 At the sixth point in time,5 Droupadi will have intercourse with you. Let the brahmanas who are acquainted with the four Vedas consecrate you today, assisted by the priest of the Pandavas,6 the five Pandava brothers who are bulls among men, Droupadi’s five sons, the Panchalas and the Chedis.

Now does it say anywhere in any text or version that Krishna didn't mean what he said. Or that he was just joking or saying random statements. Or that he was just manipulating things. Now its left to everyone's own interpretation of what Krishna meant here and what he was trying to do. Since no version mentions his thought process. You may think this was of no importance and he didn't mean anything and it was only manipulation that is fine. Same way some one can think that Krishna truly meant this and with everything he has done before if Karna had agreed this, he would have been made possible as well. No one interpretaion is right or wrong its everybody's own understanding of the character and the situation and truly how we understand the character to be. Trust me i have gone into endless discussion about this portion. Because there are many different interpretations and like i said all depends on individuals outlook about this epic.

My only point is inspite of any interpretation i find this wrong. Even if he was lying, luring , manipulating or just saying random things he let down Drau here by saying this. But again that doesn't mean he didn't care for her or wasn't her best friend . He was but no relationship in this epic is perfect. See i believe Bhima cared for her the most but i still wont justify the times her let her down.Because i view this epic as full of imperfect characters and imperfect relationships. That is all.