Underrated character : Who and Why? - Page 5

Originally posted by: .Vrish.

If as commander in chief, one has to be saved by other warriors from getting killed, one is a liability to the army. Dhrishtadyumna usually got the worst of it from Drona, Ashwatthama, Kripa and Karna, and always had to be saved by either Satyaki or Bhima.

Given the overwhelming superiority of the Kaurava army - Bheeshma/Karna, Drona, Kripa, Ashwatthama, Bhurishrava, Kritavarma, Shalya, Vrishasena, Bhagadatta, Shrutayudha,... it was important for the Pandavas to optimize their resources so that each could be properly engaged. That was tough to do if somebody always had to salvage their senapati from getting killed

As in Drona needing rescuing at least once that I remember? As in Satyaki going after Arjuna/Krishna to help them? The last one was during Jayadrath vadh. As in the entire Kaurava contingent being kept occupied by Abhimanyu instead of capturing Yudhishtira as they originally planned?

(I didn't make as many notes on war parvas so don't have citations at the tips of my fingers, or I'd have posted)

The only two people I don't recall needing help OR running from the enemy are Bheema and Bheeshma.

Originally posted by: .Vrish.

ON a different note, Dhrishtadyumna was overrated, not underrated. I didn't get why he got to be the Pandava senapati: Satyaki would have been a better choice. Dhrishtadyumna never won a battle against Drona, Kripa, Ashwatthama or Karna, and had to be saved several times from certain death by either Satyaki or Bhima. His only achievement on the battlefield - defeating Duryodhan in battle on day 18 and forcing him to flee the battlefield.

Underrated by the masses, meaning they play an important role in the book but people don't know their contribution

Dhrishtadyumna didn't come alone, he had army of panchal, 2nd biggest kingdom in Mahabharata, Yadavas got everything in Mahabharata, next heir too, Panchal backed Pandavas to get the throne or they would have nothing, but Panchal didn't get anything from this alliance, Satyaki was leading a division

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

As in Drona needing rescuing at least once that I remember? As in Satyaki going after Arjuna/Krishna to help them? The last one was during Jayadrath vadh. As in the entire Kaurava contingent being kept occupied by Abhimanyu instead of capturing Yudhishtira as they originally planned?

(I didn't make as many notes on war parvas so don't have citations at the tips of my fingers, or I'd have posted)

The only two people I don't recall needing help OR running from the enemy are Bheema and Bheeshma.

When did Drona need rescuing? I missed that.

Satyaki went after Arjun/Krishna b'cos Yudhisthir was paranoid, and so sent first Satyaki, and then Bhima after them. While that helped in eroding the Kaurava army within that vyuha, Arjun/Krishna didn't need that assistance. In fact, what that move did is get a lot of major Pandava warriors - Dhrishtaketu, Sahadev of Magadha, Kekaya-raj, and a few more kings slaughtered by Drona.

It's true that the Kaurava army was occupied by Abhimanyu, but Jayadrath did a good job in containing the rest of the Pandava army. After all, the boon that he got from Shiva covered only the 4 Pandavas, so why couldn't Dhrishtadyumna, Drupada, Virata, Satyaki, Ghatotkacha, Dhrishtaketu, et al bypass Jayadratha and penetrate the vyuha? If they all had done that, Abhimanyu would have had adequate back-up and not been surrounded by several warriors

Originally posted by: NoraSM

Underrated by the masses, meaning they play an important role in the book but people don't know their contribution

Dhrishtadyumna didn't come alone, he had army of panchal, 2nd biggest kingdom in Mahabharata, Yadavas got everything in Mahabharata, next heir too, Panchal backed Pandavas to get the throne or they would have nothing, but Panchal didn't get anything from this alliance, Satyaki was leading a division

The Yadavas lived in their cocoon in Dwarka, and didn't have to bother about anything. And the next heir was by no means a given: had all the Pandava sons survived the war, chances are that they too would have gotten wives and kids of their own. After Yudhisthir, Pritivindya may have been the sole succession. It's only due to the massacre by Ashwatthama on night 18 that a scion of the Yadavas ended up on the Pandava throne after the Pandavas decided to retire: that wasn't a design by the Yadavas

Also, the Yadavas did contribute armies to both sides. As per his agreement w/ Duryodhan, Krishna gave him his personal army, and he had nothing to gain by doing that, since he was busy sabotaging any prospects of a Kaurava victory. Kritavarma too contributed an akshauni of Andhakas, while Satyaki and Chekitan provided armies to the Pandavas. Only non-combatants in Dwarka were Krishna's sons and grandsons, as well as Balarama, who was on a pilgrimage to atone for the killing of Romaharṣaṇa.

I do agree w/ you that the contribution of Panchala as a kingdom is underrated (although that didn't seem to be the question of this thread). Like I keep reminding people, the Pandavas did not have an army beyond themselves and their sons: Indraprastha was a part of the Kaurava empire, and any army that they had fought on the Kaurava side. The biggest army that the Pandavas had was the Panchalas, who were just fodder for 4 warriors - Drona, Kripa, Karna and Ashwatthama. And there were the armies of Matsya, Chedi, Magadha, Kekaya, Srinjaya, and some other kingdoms.

It was only due to the Yadava fratricide - a result of the cumulative curses by both the rishis like Vishwamitra, Durvasa, Kanva et al and Gandhari - that Arjun had to evacuate the surviving women and children and resettle them on the mainland. He finally separated the Vrishnis and Andhakas, who had forever been at each other's throats, by crowning the sons of Satyaki and Kritavarma as kings of separate kingdoms. W/ Vajra, the Yadavas got back Mathura, which they had lost after Jarasandha's wars.

If you look at the post Pandava set up, neither Yadavas nor Panchalas had the upper hand

Originally posted by: .Vrish.

It was only due to the Yadava fratricide - a result of the cumulative curses by both the rishis like Vishwamitra, Durvasa, Kanva et al and Gandhari - that Arjun had to evacuate the surviving women and children and resettle them on the mainland. He finally separated the Vrishnis and Andhakas, who had forever been at each other's throats, by crowning the sons of Satyaki and Kritavarma as kings of separate kingdoms. W/ Vajra, the Yadavas got back Mathura, which they had lost after Jarasandha's wars.

If you look at the post Pandava set up, neither Yadavas nor Panchalas had the upper hand

Actually vajra ended up inheriting ip too (citation on previous page). Plus prakishit god hastinapur he too had yadava connection. Seeing from that respect yadava did had an upper hand post war as compared to panchala who ended up loosing everything including all the heirs.

The above article talks about prativindhya s descendants inheriting sauvira kingdom which makes me wonder that unlike popular belief everything was probably not lost and one person did not ended up inheriting everything but it was divided.

Just my conjecture.

Originally posted by: .Vrish.

The Yadavas lived in their cocoon in Dwarka, and didn't have to bother about anything. And the next heir was by no means a given: had all the Pandava sons survived the war, chances are that they too would have gotten wives and kids of their own. After Yudhisthir, Pritivindya may have been the sole succession. It's only due to the massacre by Ashwatthama on night 18 that a scion of the Yadavas ended up on the Pandava throne after the Pandavas decided to retire: that wasn't a design by the Yadavas

Also, the Yadavas did contribute armies to both sides. As per his agreement w/ Duryodhan, Krishna gave him his personal army, and he had nothing to gain by doing that, since he was busy sabotaging any prospects of a Kaurava victory. Kritavarma too contributed an akshauni of Andhakas, while Satyaki and Chekitan provided armies to the Pandavas. Only non-combatants in Dwarka were Krishna's sons and grandsons, as well as Balarama, who was on a pilgrimage to atone for the killing of Romaharṣaṇa.

I do agree w/ you that the contribution of Panchala as a kingdom is underrated (although that didn't seem to be the question of this thread). Like I keep reminding people, the Pandavas did not have an army beyond themselves and their sons: Indraprastha was a part of the Kaurava empire, and any army that they had fought on the Kaurava side. The biggest army that the Pandavas had was the Panchalas, who were just fodder for 4 warriors - Drona, Kripa, Karna and Ashwatthama. And there were the armies of Matsya, Chedi, Magadha, Kekaya, Srinjaya, and some other kingdoms.

Abhimanyu was declared the next heir to the throne before the war

The biggest army was from panchal, why wouldn't Dhristadumya command his own army? That's why he was the Commander - in - chief

^^^OK don't kill me, but On the above I just realized that all the kingdoms that constitute current Pakistan supported Kaurava army

Sindh -- Jaidrath

Trigatha(current day Punjab)-- Shusharma

Gandhar(regions extended till Baluchistan border)-- Shakuni

Madra (North West Frontier)-- Shalya. Agreed he was tricked to support them but he supported them wholeheartedly (excluding day 17 when he tried to demoralise Karna which I guess was more due to personal anger of becoming the driver of a SutaPutra)

I think BangDesh did not participate in war, correct me here

Any idea if Kashyapmir participated n from which side

Dushmani puraani hai

Kalinga and Pragjyotisha also supported Duryodhana. They re Orissa and Assam in present times.

So I don't think we can conclude anything 😊