Underrated character : Who and Why? - Page 4

Originally posted by: .Vrish.

The upaPandavas were raised by Dhrishtadyumna in Panchala, not by Subhadra in Dwarka, as it seemed to show in this serial

No they kept jumbling between both the places. The stayabham draupadi conversation is proof of it where she talks about how upandavas are happy in dwaraka how subdhara loves them as much as abhimanyu how rukhmini herself and other queens of krishna along takes care of them Also Krishna informs yudhishtra how they are being trained under pradymun

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

I do agree with re: Dhrishtadyumna being underrated. People who like to point out he didn't rack up many kills: that wasn't the job of a commander-in-chief. His job was to efficiently deploy troops to eke out a win. Which he did.

Plus, he says he's putting up with the Pandavas for his sister. Considering the other brothers we see in MBh, I think Panchali lucked out with him.

If as commander in chief, one has to be saved by other warriors from getting killed, one is a liability to the army. Dhrishtadyumna usually got the worst of it from Drona, Ashwatthama, Kripa and Karna, and always had to be saved by either Satyaki or Bhima.

Given the overwhelming superiority of the Kaurava army - Bheeshma/Karna, Drona, Kripa, Ashwatthama, Bhurishrava, Kritavarma, Shalya, Vrishasena, Bhagadatta, Shrutayudha,... it was important for the Pandavas to optimize their resources so that each could be properly engaged. That was tough to do if somebody always had to salvage their senapati from getting killed

Here krishna informs krishnaa about her sons

And Krishna also said, 'O Krishna, O daughter of Yajnasena, those sons of yours, are devoted to the study of the science of arms, are well-behaved and conduct themselves on the pattern, O Krishna, of their righteous friends. Your father and your uterine brothers proffer them a kingdom and territories; but the boys find no joy in the house of Drupada, or in that of their maternal uncles. Safely proceeding to the land of the Anartas, they take the greatest delight in the study of the science of arms. Your sons enter the town of the Vrishnis and take an immediate liking to the people there. And as you would direct them to conduct themselves, or as the respected Kunti would do, so does Subhadra direct them in a watchful way. Perhaps, she is still more careful of them. And, O Krishna, as Rukmini's son is the preceptor of Aniruddha, of Abhimanyu, of Sunitha, and of Bhanu; so he is the preceptor and the refuge of your sons also! And a good preceptor, would unceasingly give them lessons in the wielding of maces and swords and bucklers, in missiles and in the arts of driving cars and of riding horses, being valiant. And he, the son of Rukmini, having bestowed a very good training upon them, and having taught them the art of using various weapons in a proper way, takes satisfaction at the valorous deeds of your sons, and of Abhimanyu. O daughter of Drupada! And when your son goes out, in pursuit of (out-door) sports, each one of them is followed thither by cars and horses and vehicles and elephants.' And Krishna said to the virtuous king, Yudhishthira, The fighting men of the Dasarha tribe, and the Kukuras, and the Andhakas--let these, O king, place themselves at thy command--let them perform what thou desirest them. O lord of men, let the army of the tribe of Madhus, (resistless) like the wind, with their bows and led by Balarama whose weapon is the plough-- let that army, equipped (for war), consisting of horsemen and foot soldiers and horses and cars and elephants, prepare to do your bidding. O son of Pandu! Drive Duryodhana, the son of Dhritarashtra, the vilest of sinful men, together with his followers and his hosts of friends to the path betaken by the lord of Saubha, the son of the Earth! You, O ruler of men, are welcome to stick to that stipulation which was made in the assemblyhall--but

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m03/m03182.htm

This is from drapaudi satyabhama conversation

Thy brave sons, Prativindhya by Yudhishthira and Sutasoma by Bhima, and Srutakarman by Arjuna, and Satanika by Nakula, and Srutasena begot by Sahadeva, are well and have become skilled in weapons. Like Abhimanyu they are all staying at Dwaravati, delighted with the place. And Subhadra also, cheerfully and with her whole soul, looketh after them like thee, and like thee joyeth in them and deriveth much happiness from them. Indeed, she grieveth in their griefs and joyeth in their joys. And the mother of Pradyumna also loveth them with her whole soul. And Kesava with his sons Bhanu and others watcheth over them with especial affection. And my mother-in-law is ever attentive in feeding and clothing them. And the Andhakas and Vrishnis, including Rama and others, regard them with affection. And, O beautiful lady, their affection for thy sons is equal unto what they feel for Pradyumna.

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m03/m03233.htm

Originally posted by: Poorabhforever

No they kept jumbling between both the places. The stayabham draupadi conversation is proof of it where she talks about how upandavas are happy in dwaraka how subdhara loves them as much as abhimanyu how rukhmini herself and other queens of krishna along takes care of them Also Krishna informs yudhishtra how they are being trained under pradymun

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m03/m03022.htm

Vaisampayana continued, "Having addressed the Kaurava thus, that foremost of male persons, of mighty arms, the slayer of Madhu, possessed of every grace, saluting the Pandavas, prepared for departure. And the mighty-armed hero reverentially saluted Yudhishthira the just, and the king in return and Bhima also smelt the crown of his head. And he was embraced by Arjuna, and the twins saluted him with reverence. And he was duly honoured by Dhaumya, and worshipped with tears by Draupadi. And causing Subhadra and Abhimanyu to ascend his golden car, Krishna, mounted it himself, worshipped by the Pandavas. And consoling Yudhishthira, Krishna set out for Dwaraka on his car resplendent as the sun and unto which were yoked the horses Saivya and Sugriva. And after he of the Dasharha race had departed, Dhristadyumna, the son of Prishata, also set out for his own city, taking with him the sons of Draupadi. And the king of Chedi, Dhrishtaketu also, taking his sister with him set out for his beautiful city of Suktimati, after bidding farewell to the Pandavas. And, O Bharata, the Kaikeyas also, with the permission of Kunti's son possessed of immeasurable energy, having reverentially saluted all the Pandavas, went away. But Brahmanas and the Vaisyas and the dwellers of Yudhishthira's kingdom though repeatedly requested to go, did not leave the Pandavas. O foremost of king, O bull of the Bharata race, the multitude that surrounded those high-souled ones in the forest of Kamyaka looked extraordinary. And Yudhishthira, honouring those high-minded Brahmanas, in due time ordered his men, saying 'Make ready the car.'"

Plus the above para also mention bhanu their future brother in law taking care of his wives brothers 😉😳

Plus here it is said that the rule of indraprasth is given to vajra which further makes me believe that vajra was yudhishtra s grandson

The rule of Indraprastha was given to Vajra. The widows of Akrura then desired to retire into the woods. Vajra asked them repeatedly to desist, but they did not listen to him. Rukmini, the princess of Gandhara, Saivya, Haimavati, and queen Jamvabati ascended the funeral pyre. Satyabhama and other dear wives of Krishna entered the woods, O king, resolved to set themselves to the practice of penances. They began to live on fruits and roots and pass their time in the contemplation of Hari. Going beyond the Himavat, they took up their abode in a place called Kalpa. Those men who had followed Arjuna from Dwaravati, were distributed into groups, and bestowed upon Vajra. Having done all these acts suited to the occasion, Arjuna, with eyes bathed in tears, then entered the retreat of Vyasa. There he beheld the Island-born Rishi seated at his ease.

Another one

Vaishampayana said: "That scorcher of foes, Vibhatsu, thus addressed by his maternal uncle, replied, with great cheerlessness of heart, unto Vasudeva who was equally cheerless, saying, ‘O uncle, I am unable to look at this Earth when she is reft of that hero of Vrishni’s race and those my other kinsmen. The king and Bhimasena and Sahadeva and Nakula and Yajnaseni, numbering the sixth, are of the same mind with myself in this matter. The time has come for the departure of the king also. Know this, that the hour of our departure too is at hand. Thou art the foremost of those that are well conversant with the course of time. I shall, however, O chastiser of foes, first remove to Indraprastha the women of the Vrishni race as also the children and the aged.’ Having said so unto his uncle, Arjuna next addressed Daruka, saying, ‘I wish to see without any delay the chief officers of the Vrishni heroes.’ Having uttered these words, the heroic Arjuna, grieving for those great car-warriors (who had been slain), entered the great hall of the Yadavas (where they used to hold their court), called Sudharma. When he had taken his seat there, all the citizens, including the Brahmanas, and all the ministers of state came and stood surrounding him. Then Partha, more grieved than they, addressed those grieving and cheerless citizens and officers who were more dead than alive, and said these words that were well suited to the occasion: ‘I shall take away with me the remnants of the Vrishnis and the Andhakas. The sea will soon engulf this city. Equip all your cars and place on them all your wealth. This Vajra (the grandson of Krishna) will be your king at Shakraprastha. On the seventh day from this, at sunrise, we shall set out. Make your preparations without delay.’

Sorry couldn't help it. 😆. Was just re reading this portion and felt like adding it.

Originally posted by: .Vrish.

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m03/m03022.htm

Vaisampayana continued, "Having addressed the Kaurava thus, that foremost of male persons, of mighty arms, the slayer of Madhu, possessed of every grace, saluting the Pandavas, prepared for departure. And the mighty-armed hero reverentially saluted Yudhishthira the just, and the king in return and Bhima also smelt the crown of his head. And he was embraced by Arjuna, and the twins saluted him with reverence. And he was duly honoured by Dhaumya, and worshipped with tears by Draupadi. And causing Subhadra and Abhimanyu to ascend his golden car, Krishna, mounted it himself, worshipped by the Pandavas. And consoling Yudhishthira, Krishna set out for Dwaraka on his car resplendent as the sun and unto which were yoked the horses Saivya and Sugriva. And after he of the Dasharha race had departed, Dhristadyumna, the son of Prishata, also set out for his own city, taking with him the sons of Draupadi. And the king of Chedi, Dhrishtaketu also, taking his sister with him set out for his beautiful city of Suktimati, after bidding farewell to the Pandavas. And, O Bharata, the Kaikeyas also, with the permission of Kunti's son possessed of immeasurable energy, having reverentially saluted all the Pandavas, went away. But Brahmanas and the Vaisyas and the dwellers of Yudhishthira's kingdom though repeatedly requested to go, did not leave the Pandavas. O foremost of king, O bull of the Bharata race, the multitude that surrounded those high-souled ones in the forest of Kamyaka looked extraordinary. And Yudhishthira, honouring those high-minded Brahmanas, in due time ordered his men, saying 'Make ready the car.'"

I gave the citation above

So at what point did Draupadi's sons leave Panchala for Dwarka?

Originally posted by: .Vrish.

Ashwatthama

Vile as he was after his father's death, what's ignored is that while most of the Kaurava warriors were killed either by Arjun or Bhima, most of the Pandava warriors were killed either by Drona or Ashwatthama: very few were killed by Bheeshma, Karna or Shalya, all of who preceded Ashwatthama to the senapati role. Not just that, Ashwatthama also had 2 major weapons - the Narayanastra and the Brahmashira - both of which he misused. He also not only killed Ghatotkacha's son Anjanparva, but also defeated Ghatotkacha when the latter tried avenging Anjanparva.

Satyaki

While his counterparts on the Kaurava side like Kritavarma and Bhurishrava were not among the top warriors, Satyaki was #2 among the Pandavas. If a major warrior on the Kaurava side was causing trouble and Arjun and Bhima were preoccupied, usually it was Satyaki who salvaged the situation

Sveta

This second son of Virata was killed on day 1, but not before making that day his day to shine. Once his brother Uttar was slain by Shalya, he retaliated, forcing Shalya to flee, and dispersed the Kaurava army. That forced Bheeshma to confront him, and even Bheeshma was getting repelled until a heavenly voice told him that Sveta was destined to die at his hands. Bheeshma then repelled all the Pandava warriors who went to support Sveta, including Arjun, Satyaki and Sankha (Virata's eldest son), and finally used a divine weapon to slay Sveta. It was Sveta's death that signaled to the Pandavas that they had lost day 1, and depressed Yudhisthir at the end of the day, and Krishna had to boost their morale. Also, like they did later w/ Abhimanyu, Dushashan and other Kaurava warriors danced w/ glee at Sveta's death, they were that afraid of losing the war on day 1 itself on his account

Vrishasena

It's easy to overlook him, given how overflowing w/ military talent the Kaurava army was. Yet, he defeated every Pandava who fought against him except Arjun and Abhimanyu, and the day he entered the war, he defeated Draupadi's sons who launched a combined attack on him, and Abhimanyu had to salvage him

Iravana

Short lived, but he got introduced to his father on day 7 or day 8, killed a few of Shakuni's brothers pretty quickly, then got into a battle w/ the rakshasha Alambusha, and was getting the better of him when the latter resorted to mayavi tricks to kill him. Apparently, he was loved by Ghatotkacha, who was furious at his cousin's death

Shalya

Like Vrishasena, he was overshadowed by so many stalwarts in the Kaurava army, but he was no small potatoes. On day 1, he killed Uttar, and on several occasions, he preoccupied Bhima in battle, since his primary weapon was a mace. (In fact, in Draupadi's swayamvara, he was one of those who objected to Draupadi marrying a Brahmin (Arjun in disguise) and fought a disguised Bhima while Karna fought a disguised Arjun). On day 18, he was not killed in a single man to man combat w/ Yudhisthir: he was attacked by a combination of Bhima, Satyaki, Nakul, Sahadev, Dhrishtadyumna and Shikhandi. Each of them broke one weapon of his after another, finally his chariot was downed and Yudhisthir finally hurled a javelin at him that pinned him to the ground and slew him. What was tragic about him was him being tricked into joining the wrong side. Incidentally, it's wrong to accuse him of being a 5th columnist in the Kaurava army given his role as Karna's charioteer: he was only that on day 17, and the other 17 days, he fought wholeheartedly and lost his entire family and army in the effort.

These 6 stood out for me just now. I noted the Kurukshetra warriors: don't recall other underrated characters from other parts of the story. Subhadra did have an important role in not just raising Abhimanyu, but also in being the regent/caretaker of both Parikshit and Vajra when the Pandavas finally went on their swargarohan yatra. But I'm not sure that that qualifies as underrated

I'm not sure that Uttara was even alive by then. When the Pandavas visited the forest to see Kunti, Dhritarashtra and Gandhari, Vyasa gave them all the ability to meet the souls of their fallen relatives. While DG met Duryodhan and his brothers, the Pandavas and their wives met their sons, Kunti met Karna who the Pandavas finally reconciled w/. At the end of it, all the widows of the Kauravas got to drown themselves in the river and join their husbands, thereby getting liberated of their miserable existence. While Uttara's name is not explicitly mentioned there, it's an open question whether she too took that choice to be w/ Abhimanyu for good, leaving Parikshit w/ her in-laws, namely the Pandavas and Subhadra, or whether she decided to put son above husband (very unlikely given societal norms of the era.)

You do ask a good question - Parikshit was 35 by then, which would seem a reasonable age to attain the throne. Vajra, though, may have been much younger: he was Pradhyumna's grandson, Anirudha's son: he may well have been a boy, which is why unlike his father, he wasn't caught in the fratricide. Vajra was crowned at Indraprastha, and that makes it initially unclear whether Indraprastha remained under Puru or Yadu control, but later history seems to show that Vajra and his descendants ruled from Mathura, while Indraprastha was on-again, off-again the capital of the descendants of the Pandavas

Very likely, Subhadra was more busy guiding Vajra rather than Parikshit