Minnie is wrong about various dimensions of abusive relationship. - Page 2

Originally posted by: Sakurablossom

First few minutes of episode were probably the worst part of the series for me. Not only they implied that all the crap babita went through was because her own stupid obsession with image but also that victims are equally responsible for abuse. The idea of power Dynamics in relationship between DIL and in-laws was thrown out of the window. They made mockery of the victims of abuse.

* Last part of the post is not about the episode itself, but I think it's really worth sharing.*

A brief account of what Minnie said to babita:

Babita still cares about Khuranas, but doesn't want to show it as she thinks that HS might interpret it as her link to Ashok's relatives. And she is pretending to not care to act like a good wife. And in doing so, she is coming off as a very selfish person.And whatever type of people Senior Khuranas are, they're not her enemies.

They are not best addition to her life either.

So what if they didn't love babes like a daughter, where do such in-laws exist anyways? Babita's parents were like dadu biji too. Saroj didn't protested.

Okay. No one expects in-laws to love DIL like daughter,but fairness is certainly expected. So since all in-laws are going to be partial towards own daughter, DIL shouldn't expect fair treatment. Saroj accepted the reality, babita should too.

And what efforts babita's parents made to send her to London? So why is she not angry at her own parents rather than dadu biji? How exactly dadu biji are responsible for everything?

Hmm. So babita's parents would have equal weight as dadu and biji as far as Ashok's choices are concerned? Or maybe it was beti paraya dhan mentality? Maybe they didn't want to meddle in her sasural? And I am not sure when they died,but maybe they thought when Ashok will settle down he will actually take babita with him and died within a year or two?

And after all, they happily accepted babita's union with Hanuman. And lovely, no matter how much she taunted babita, despite her jealous nature, lovely never wished ill for babita. So don't blame dadu biji lovely sukhi.

Did they have any reason to get upset about ex DIL getting married again? Were they really in a position to object? Would their objection matter? And give Lovely a cookie for never wishing ill for babita-who shared her clothes jewellery, cooked dishes for her Kitty parties without expecting anything in return. Lovely is so benevolent! She meets basic criteria for decency despite being jealous sister in-law. They felt happy for you babita, your in-laws who enjoyed your services for 17 years, were finally happy you- so lucky!

And now the worst of all: babita blamed everyone for not taking stand for her, did she ever stood firmly for herself? No. Then why is she blaming dadu biji? They are not the only one responsible, babita is equally responsible for what happened.

There you go! Why did babita not speak up? She has functional vocal cords and intact broca and Wernicke's area in brain. Just use them. It's so easy to speak up. Had babita speak , things would have been different today. Maybe yes, maybe no.

The reason why Minnie thinks that dadu biji are not THAT bad and Babes is not so blameless is because she has not faced the burns of their misogynistic mentality but babita did.

She lost 17 freaking years of her youth. Let's forget about divorce for a while. But think about this phase of the life- 17 to 35, where we normally think about education, career , our own dreams. We have dreams and we have energy to fulfill them. Just imagine wasting this phase of your life doing unpaid labour ( yes that's unpaid labour even though it's done voluntarily). And then realizing that those people were not really worth it. What in the world can give her that phase of her life back?

Why she didn't speak up? Well, once #WhyIstayed trended on Twitter. And a lot of victims of abusive relationship came forward with their stories. I'm quoting some of them. (These women were victims of physical abuse, babita's case might not involve violence but things these women said is apt in her case too).

"I was told, yes, he was deeply flawed, but then again so was I. And so I worked on myself and stayed. If he was a monster all the time, perhaps it would have been easier to leave. But he could be kind and sensitive. And so I stayed. He cried and apologized. And so I stayed."

Abuse is not always physical. Abusers are not always monsters. They have soft side too, and that's why it's hard to break relationship.

Another one said,

"Emotional abuse, manipulation and gaslighting have wreaked havoc on our self-esteem, and we do not trust our own thoughts or feelings.

Gaslighting is a term describing a form of mental abuse in which the victim is manipulated into doubting their own memory, perceptions or sanity.

...he started telling me other things. I was mentally ill, delusional. I belonged in a psychiatric hospital because I couldn't even see how f...d up I was. I was cruel and manipulative. I was selfish and immature and I couldn't do anything right. I couldn't take accountability for my own flaws, which was why I was always blaming him of abusing me, when actually it was the other way around. My own thoughts and feelings were an inaccurate representation of what was actually happening, so therefore I shouldn't trust them.

So insistent was he that eventually, I had to wonder -- could he be right? Maybe all those times he claimed I'd been dishonest, I really was lying, and I was just so mentally ill that I'd lost the ability to separate truth from fiction. Maybe I really was a sh*tty, abusive person at my core. Maybe I couldn't take care of myself.

It got so bad that I stopped trusting any of my thoughts, feelings or emotions in just about every situation."

Women don't stay in abusive relationship to look mahaan, there are multiple reasons why victims stay in such relationship. Many financially independent women tolerate abuse, many educated outspoken women tolerate abuse.

They end up accepting abuse as a price they pay for love and affection.

AND IT'S NOT THEIR FAULT THAT THEY'RE VICTIMS. PUT BLAME WHERE IT BELONGS.

I do agree

I didn't like last episode..If Minni shouts at anybody be it her biji dadu or lovely bua ..She is right she is talking on behalf of her mother.injustice done to her ..Than its all ok

But when babita herself replies she becomes bad selfish log kya khenge's ..She didn't say anything to them until lovely said sautela bap and biji instead of stopping her daughter always gets angry on babita ....

Why can't she answer back and every time lovely said something hurtful nobody take that into heart but just one scenario and babita id wrong

Why can't they come and try to reconcile with her...Even after so many bad things they did accept ashok it was him who again did stupidity became friends with khatri

And dadu wanted to break all relation with Minni when she was going to chaNge surname

And about accepting hanuman

Do they have any choice..I mean they let mita stay with them before marriage and how can they point fingers at babita who after getting divorced is going to get married

And about pinku mama ..He came himself apologized she forgave ..Why can't lovely call babita and try to mend the relationship

I don't understand sometimes they want to show women empowerment and Minni as new age girl then why be two faced

She can do all battmiji answering back at the time of wedding ceremony why she was hl bent on taking babita with her 5o haveli

Why fight in trivial matter and not when they spoke ill about Hanuman Singh ...

Just because there is nobody for them neither lovely nor ashok they are clinging onto Minni where were they when she was going through problems anybody came to ask about munni her college admission...How they are living un haveli not biji nit dadu not bua not tufani

I don't say they should disown them or does not care about them but I found babita's suggestions way better.. Arranging a hotel ori rented room ..Is way better than to keep them I. Haveli...

And in earlier episode when lovely and sukhi came to ask for the same babita said no and her reply was in this age they will feel guilty if they had to leave on our expenses...And some more dialogues.. That day even munni agreed to them

And I found that more logical and practical

Originally posted by: Sakurablossom

In-laws used her as per their convenience. And turned their faces away when they had to make hard choice. They used her for 17 years as a glorified housemaid, and just because babita was okay with being used doesn't not relieve Khuranas from their misdeeds. In one of the previous episodes Minnie told biji that they wouldn't have tolerated babita had she not served them for 17 years. And the word abuse does not necessarily mean physical or mental torture. Deprived someone from their needs, not rewarding them for their contribution all fall under abuse. Babita was used, deprived of the life a wife deserves and got nothing in return for unpaid labour she did for 17 years. That is abuse.

Also, relationship between abusers and victims are not always sour. In fact more often it's apparantly loving relationship where people are abused. Sure there are bad moments, but there are good moments too, and those good moments are the reason people choose to give another chance to abusers.

I guess it depends on perception

Babes parents then are also responsible for the abuse then. Marrying off their 18 year old daughter without a degree or financial independence is also wrong. They set her up for a life of dependence and seva.

Yes her in-laws did have her do their seva etc but she also made the choice to stay. It was HER choice! Why did she chose that life ? Again no one forced her to stay..but she is constantly obsessed with what people might say so she never spoke up. Ashok returned a few times and she never asked to go with him. So who deprived Babes of love ? Her in-laws or herself?

I’m not absolving her in-laws of their treatment of Babes ..but absolving Babes and her parents of their involvement is not right either

Originally posted by: silvermoonlight

I guess it depends on perception

Babes parents then are also responsible for the abuse then. Marrying off their 18 year old daughter without a degree or financial independence is also wrong. They set her up for a life of dependence and seva.

Yes her in-laws did have her do their seva etc but she also made the choice to stay. It was HER choice! Why did she chose that life ? Again no one forced her to stay..but she is constantly obsessed with what people might say so she never spoke up. Ashok returned a few times and she never asked to go with him. So who deprived Babes of love ? Her in-laws or herself?

I’m not absolving her in-laws of their treatment of Babes ..but absolving Babes and her parents of their involvement is not right either

Babita did say she wanted to speak to Ashok about what's on her mind but he did nit listen.. thag could mean she said but he did nit give attention or he did not let her say what's on her mind or whatever but she did want to speak to him..

And why do we keep forgetting that Babita was not a today's woman.. she had no idea of Independence. She was brought up with Kati and sasural wale are your family ideology.. she did not choose the life.. she did not know that she had a choice or that she had other options.. she lived a closeted life.. that's the reason in old times divorce rates were so low.. be ause women did not know they had a choice

Babita's parents were definitely wrong in marrying her young but still the greater fault lies with Khuranas

Originally posted by: silvermoonlight

I’m not saying Babes said they abused her

My question is for the OP who through her post is stating that Babes was a victim of abuse

However aside from a few times Beeji acted like a typical and sometimes stupid mother , I don’t see any scenes indicating abuse ? Misunderstandings and handling a situation with bad judgment is one thing and flat out abuse is another

Also Ashok showed his asshole side once it was determined he no longer wanted to be with Babes ..which was 17 years later ...that’s more than “a while”

Babes has gone through some bad shit with Lovely who I would say is abusive but Babita could have shut that down quickly especially since Lovely is younger than her. Also Lovely only became a bitch after marriage and realizing she couldn’t conceive ..which was maybe last 6 years or so ..so who abused and taunted her from the last 11 years ?

I haven’t seen Sr k taunt Babes thus far ? Beeji has said some stupid thing here n there but she also supported Babes getting her degree

Babes always spoke so nicely of them previously so I’m not connecting the dots to them going from supporting their DIL to get a degree to being abusive ??

exactly my point. where was babes abused for 17 years by her in laws. the thing is that she lived with a mentality that they are my own people so i will adjust for them. if babita had raised her issues respectfully them im sure daau beeji would have understood. if she had said i want mini to be with her father she is always asking for him then would they have said no. babes dint try only she just expected them to understand on own. BTw i never saw dadu speak even harshly to babita in initial episodes not even beeji for that matter.

Daadu-beeji- sukhi are spineless people basically who cannot stand up for the right thing. They to first saw themselves as victims and being lachaar in front of what ashok was doing. their own son wouldnt have landed them up homeless otherwise

Originally posted by: silvermoonlight

I guess it depends on perception

Babes parents then are also responsible for the abuse then. Marrying off their 18 year old daughter without a degree or financial independence is also wrong. They set her up for a life of dependence and seva.

Yes her in-laws did have her do their seva etc but she also made the choice to stay. It was HER choice! Why did she chose that life ? Again no one forced her to stay..but she is constantly obsessed with what people might say so she never spoke up. Ashok returned a few times and she never asked to go with him. So who deprived Babes of love ? Her in-laws or herself?

I’m not absolving her in-laws of their treatment of Babes ..but absolving Babes and her parents of their involvement is not right either

I know, marrying off an 18 year old is very stupid and it gives us idea about conservative mindset of babita's family. They probably stopped caring about her after her marriage. They're at blame too. I'm talking about how she was treated by her in-laws. What happened in 17 years was a vicious cycle- they used her and she let them because: she might have thought that this is the price she has to pay for acceptance. She accepted it as normal thing. To get out of an abusive relationship, one has to identify that relationship is not normal. And on the top of that, by that time person would have invested emotionally into it so they might just try to give another chance. It's so gray that victims hope that by putting some more effort they might land on the brighter side.

On the top of that, there's social hierarchy, child factor, money issue, lack of support system by society and government.

And about choices- choices are not made in vacuum. A lot of factors influence choices.

My problem here is insensitive handling of the issue. Such a complex issue was reduced to obsession with coming off as mahaan persona. Oversimplification of psyche of victims. Maybe this is what they planned, or maybe they are not interested into diving deep into real world cases and what exactly holds victim back. Because given how rampant this issue is in the society, it has to be a complicated thing. Thousands of women and men couldn't be foolish and spineless.

If there are touching a sensitive issue,then handle gracefully.

Originally posted by: zehreeli.kheer

Babita did say she wanted to speak to Ashok about what's on her mind but he did nit listen.. thag could mean she said but he did nit give attention or he did not let her say what's on her mind or whatever but she did want to speak to him..

And why do we keep forgetting that Babita was not a today's woman.. she had no idea of Independence. She was brought up with Kati and sasural wale are your family ideology.. she did not choose the life.. she did not know that she had a choice or that she had other options.. she lived a closeted life.. that's the reason in old times divorce rates were so low.. be ause women did not know they had a choice

Babita's parents were definitely wrong in marrying her young but still the greater fault lies with Khuranas

So if Babes was not the woman of today then her in-laws were also not parents of today

They did what most in-laws do ...expect their DIL to do their seva

I mean those were just the times and that mentality existed everywhere

Neither the Khurannas changed their mentality and neither did Babes...so again both are at fault

Also where did Babes say Ashok didn’t listen to her about going abroad ? I don’t recall that scene

Originally posted by: silvermoonlight

So if Babes was not the woman of today then her in-laws were also not parents of today

They did what most in-laws do ...expect their DIL to do their seva

I mean those were just the times and that mentality existed everywhere

Neither the Khurannas changed their mentality and neither did Babes...so again both are at fault

Also where did Babes say Ashok didn’t listen to her about going abroad ? I don’t recall that scene

She did not say she told Ashok about going to abroad.. she said she wanted to speak to him and tell him about her anguish and everything she was tolerating while he was away but he did not listen.. why and how he did not listen is up to perception

I never questioned Khuranas expecting Babita doing their seva as wrong.. it's not stopping Lovely that I had a problem with.. it was later accepting Meeta in their house that I question.. it's Biji trying to stop Babita from blasting Lovely that is the issue

Seva is not a problem.. but not paying heedto what other person is feeling is and that's exactly where Khuranas failed terribly.. they did not once think how Babita was bearing the taunts of their daughter..

Originally posted by: zehreeli.kheer

She did not say she told Ashok about going to abroad.. she said she wanted to speak to him and tell him about her anguish and everything she was tolerating while he was away but he did not listen.. why and how he did not listen is up to perception

I never questioned Khuranas expecting Babita doing their seva as wrong.. it's not stopping Lovely that I had a problem with.. it was later accepting Meeta in their house that I question.. it's Biji trying to stop Babita from blasting Lovely that is the issue

Seva is not a problem.. but not paying heedto what other person is feeling is and that's exactly where Khuranas failed terribly.. they did not once think how Babita was bearing the taunts of their daughter..

I do agree with the Lovely bit ...her parents should have never kept her as long as they did

They should have told Sukhi to man up get a job and place to live a long time ago

That would have avoided the choosing between your daughter and DIL ...as a parent I think one naturally protects their kids but they could have stopped that situation from getting out of control

Originally posted by: silvermoonlight

I do agree with the Lovely bit ...her parents should have never kept her as long as they did

They should have told Sukhi to man up get a job and place to live a long time ago

That would have avoided the choosing between your daughter and DIL ...as a parent I think one naturally protects their kids but they could have stopped that situation from getting out of control

Leave that.. even during wedding functions, Biji had a problem when Babita stopped Lovely and Dadu was as usual a mute spectator.. so ya.. they failed as both parents and as in laws

Well said, but I think it is wasted because no matter how you try to explain it, babita is always wrong, the cvs have made a wonderful job of thoroughly butchering her character. She is person with no spine, brain ,feelings or emotion. All she does is jump to conclusions,think what people will say, HS or Minnie must totally explain to her and last but not the least she will cry and say a big tearing SORRY. Since this is not a DIL and MIL story, Minnie is the MIL and babita is the DIL. Hoping when it will end, just watching for the stars because I like them. By the way loved your writing. Have a good day.