How stupid can this get?:Mod note pg19

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rayadallie

@rayadallie

Dazzler

Posted: 12 years ago

#81

Originally posted by: soapwatcher1
Dear Kalapi, sorry to butt in but a mere mangalsutra does not a marriage make. If it did, then we would all be celebrating Arjun's and Ovi's marriage, she has a mangalsutra around her neck, what more does she need to make the marriage real? Why are we then applauding her for leaving Arjun? If a mangalsutra was the only thing necessary, all would be well.

A mangalsutra (at least to me) symbolizes what a marriage signifies - love and commitment in a union between a man and a woman. Both these were lacking between Arjun and Ovi yesterday, no love on his part and no commitment on her part as she had already decided to leave him before doing the deed. A mangalsutra is not a license to indulge in bodily pleasures. Love and commitment were both present when Purvi and Arjun did the deed, there was love between them and they were both committed to each other at that point in time, rain or no rain to incite poor mortal Arjun. So I will not play the moral judge here, suffice it to say both girls were human as was the guy. If one pair was wrong, the other was wrong as well. If we can excuse one and put it down to human frailty and that much celebrated emotion, love, the other can be similarly excused.

You are too good my friend👏

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pallavi25

@pallavi25

Inactive

+ 5

Posted: 12 years ago

#82

Originally posted by: sashashyam
Atta girl, Pallavi!

The last para is spot on - I noted that too as I was the High Commissioner of India to Canada 6 years back - but one cannot expect the CVs to check up all that, when they do not even seem to know about the Medical Council of India has the sole jurisdiction over disciplinary action to be taken against errant medical practitioners. Their maxim is a simple one - want a love scene, you need rain.

As for the rest of what your fertile imagination has cooked up, one can only hope that the CVs do not pick it up!😉 Things are bad enough already.

As for Onir, I would be glad if he senses that his Mishti is yearning to go back in time, and fades away into the twilight after they have somehow restored his licence.. Why should the poor of Kolkata lose his services just because of Ms. Purvi Deshmukh-temporarily Dutt for convenience- soon to be Kirloskar? Let the poor chap get over this Circe and live the rest of his mortal span in peace.

Shyamala Di

Dear Shyamala Di,

I dont want Onir to die, I was just guessing the future plot of PR as Ekta's twisted mind would hatch it! 😆

Ovi returning with her kid to torture ArVi and their kids seems a sureshot. 😆 But as things stand now, Ovi is not really gone and may return anyday and Purvi has been strictly warned to stay away from Arjun!

I like Onir inspite of his mild mannered worship of Madam Purvi. I want him to live and have kids with Purvi. But if Ekta plans to reunite ArVi she will kill him, I know that! I hope he returns to Kolkata and marries a nice girl from apun ka Bengal! 😃

Im glad you concur as to the coldness of rain in North America's northern parts. I would never get wet in the rain here nor allow my kids to do that!

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sashashyam

@sashashyam

Sparkler

+ 3

Posted: 12 years ago

#83

Dear Janhvi and Kalapi,

I am not sorry for entering this debate, for it is hardly a one on one. I am not at all interested in the rain issue, which seems to have taken up several pages, but I would like to add my twopennyworth on the other and much more important question. So please bear with me, both of you.

To my mind, Ovi stays back for that one night because after listening to Arjun's desperate pleas to her to stay and his frantic explanations of how he was never unfaithful to her (technically only, but let that pass), she knows that he will make a special effort to woo her back, and she wants to be so wooed.

It is the deepest desire of her heart to have him care for her and need her for real, and perhaps she hopes, after listening to his desperation, and learning that he has given up Pari as well, that maybe, just maybe, he really wants her at long last (she thinks that he gave up Pari to persuade her to stay. I do not agree, for it was a case of force majeure. But what matters here is what Ovi believes. and not what I or we believe, even if we are right and she is wrong).

I would not fault for not having stuck to her original decision to leave with Manav. nor for having had that night with Arjun, for her reasons for doing both are the same, as per my understanding, as outlined above, and they are perfectly valid as seen thru her eyes.

When she leaves in the end, it was, I think. because she realises that while Arjun is trying the hardest he can to make things the way she would want it, it is still an act and not the real thing. She has, finally, grown up enough to understand the difference between what she wants and what she can get. and she is ready to walk out rather than settle for false coin, no matter that it is gilded.

That is it, Finally, if a mangalsutra does not a marriage make, and I would grant that on a case by case basis, there is still a definite difference between being married and not being married, at least for an old dinosaur like me. I was never more let down than after the Arjun-Purvi shack rumours, which I had denied to the very end, were proved to be true.

Ovi is, as of now, married to Arjun, both technically and, from her side, emotionally as well. That, to old diehards like me, does make a difference.

As for the Arjun-Ovi rain sequence seeming contrived, it was, but then so was the Arjun-Purvi gig in that dirty wet shack Why the devil did they not drive home and dry out there? It was unbelievable in Purvi, if not in Arjun, since she was such a sanskaari girl, always going on and on about her middle class sanskaars .

Yesterday, it was also astonishing to see Arjun talk of the shack sequence as a bhool that was committed anjaane me. Anjaane me? To listen to him, one would have assumed that it was nothing out of the ordinary, but rather like Kunti trying out the mantra and ending up with Karna!

Shyamala

Originally posted by: soapwatcher1
Dear Kalapi, sorry to butt in but a mere mangalsutra does not a marriage make. If it did, then we would all be celebrating Arjun's and Ovi's marriage, she has a mangalsutra around her neck, what more does she need to make the marriage real? Why are we then applauding her for leaving Arjun? If a mangalsutra was the only thing necessary, all would be well.

A mangalsutra (at least to me) symbolizes what a marriage signifies - love and commitment in a union between a man and a woman. Both these were lacking between Arjun and Ovi yesterday, no love on his part and no commitment on her part as she had already decided to leave him before doing the deed. A mangalsutra is not a license to indulge in bodily pleasures. Love and commitment were both present when Purvi and Arjun did the deed, there was love between them and they were both committed to each other at that point in time, rain or no rain to incite poor mortal Arjun. So I will not play the moral judge here, suffice it to say both girls were human as was the guy. If one pair was wrong, the other was wrong as well. If we can excuse one and put it down to human frailty and that much celebrated emotion, love, the other can be similarly excused.

Edited by sashashyam - 12 years ago

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sashashyam

@sashashyam

Sparkler

+ 3

Posted: 12 years ago

#84

About the rain, Pallavi, I had edited my response a bit later, and the first sentence now reads "The last para is spot on, at least for Ottawa and Toronto and northeastern Canada, though not for other parts - I noted that possible discrepancy too"

Anyway, the rain business is a very individual taste, and it is, to my mind, impossible to be categoric about it.

Shyamala Di

Originally posted by: pallavi25

Dear Shyamala Di,

I dont want Onir to die, I was just guessing the future plot of PR as Ekta's twisted mind would hatch it! 😆
Ovi returning with her kid to torture ArVi and their kids seems a sureshot. 😆 But as things stand now, Ovi is not really gone and may return anyday and Purvi has been strictly warned to stay away from Arjun!
I like Onir inspite of his mild mannered worship of Madam Purvi. I want him to live and have kids with Purvi. But if Ekta plans to reunite ArVi she will kill him, I know that! I hope he returns to Kolkata and marries a nice girl from apun ka Bengal! 😃

Im glad you concur as to the coldness of rain in North America's northern parts. I would never get wet in the rain here nor allow my kids to do that!

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pallavi25

@pallavi25

Inactive

+ 5

Posted: 12 years ago

#85

Originally posted by: sashashyam
Dear Janhvi and Kalapi,

I am not sorry for entering this debate, for it is hardly a one on one. I am not at all interested in the rain issue, which seems to have taken up several pages, but I would like to add my twopennyworth on the other and much more important question. So please bear with me, both of you.

To my mind, Ovi stays back for that one night because after listening to Arjun's desperate pleas to her to stay and his frantic explanations of how he was never unfaithful to her (technically only, but let that pass), she knows that he will make a special effort to woo her back, and she wants to be so wooed.

It is the deepest desire of her heart to have him care for her and need her for real, and perhaps she hopes, after listening to his desperation, and learning that he has given up Pari as well, that maybe, just maybe, he really wants her at long last (she thinks that he gave up Pari to persuade her to stay. I do not agree, for it was a case of force majeure. But what matters here is what Ovi believes. and not what I or we believe, even if we are right and she is wrong).

I would not fault for not having stuck to her original decision to leave with Manav. nor for having had that night with Arjun, for her reasons for doing both are the same, as per my understanding, as outlined above, and they are perfectly valid as seen thru her eyes.

When she leaves in the end, it was, I think. because she realises that while Arjun is trying the hardest he can to make things the way she would want it, it is still an act and not the real thing. She has, finally, grown up enough to understand the difference between what she wants and what she can get. and she is ready to walk out rather than settle for false coin, no matter that it is gilded.

That is it, Finally, if a mangalsutra does not a marriage make, and I would grant that on a case by case basis, there is still a definite difference between being married and not being married, at least for an old dinosaur like me. I was never more let down than after the Arjun-Purvi shack rumours, which I had denied to the very end, were proved to be true.

Ovi is, as of now, married to Arjun, both technically and, from her side, emotionally as well. That, to old diehards like me, does make a difference.

As for the Arjun-Ovi rain sequence seeming contrived, it was, but then so was the Arjun-Purvi gig in that dirty wet shack Why the devil did they not drive home and dry out there? It was unbelievable in Purvi, if not in Arjun, since she was such a sanskaari girl, always going on and on about her middle class sanskaars .

Yesterday, it was also astonishing to see Arjun talk of the shack sequence as a bhool that was committed anjaane me. Anjaane me? To listen to him, one would have assumed that it was nothing out of the ordinary, but rather like Kunti trying out the mantra and ending up with Karna!

Shyamala

Dear Shyamala di,

Ovi Arjun rain sequence was more contrived not on the basis of whether they were married but because it was out of character for OVI to dance in the rain or Arjun to dance with her! Purvi and Arjun used to do the typical romantic lover things all the time, like getting wet in the rain, eating street food, strolling down the streets of Mumbai. Have we ever seen Ovi Arjun do mundane lovey dovey scenes like that? Nope...so that rain sequence WAS smarmy and contrived!

As for Purvi being sanskari...what is the exact definition of sanskari? I want to know. If sanskari means refusing the man you love from coming too close, she did that several times before the shack scene. But that evening was different, they were engaged, got wet in the rain and in a weak moment she relented and let him do it! When the man she loved wanted to get hot and heavy, what would she do? Scream and push him away? 😆 Guys can be pretty persuasive when the girl is in love and thats what happened. And besides she knew they would get married the next day so that made all the difference! If that makes her non-sanskari, why then all the heroines in movies like Aradhana, Andaaz, etc, all the Ekta serials heroines ...all of these ladies, girls are ghor Un-sanskari and deserve our contempt.

All I can say is "Ishq pe zor nahin" 😳

But Arjun calling it a bhool is just damage control... ...he is a scoundrel for being ashamed of loving Purvi. Calling it a bhool just made it dirty, made Pari's existence a sin...now .THAT IS REALLY DIRTY!

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sashashyam

@sashashyam

Sparkler

+ 3

Posted: 12 years ago

#86

For the first, dear Pallavi, I did say I was a dinosaur out of touch with the New Age morality, did I not?

For me such behaviour is wrong. Even immoral. Period. I too was young once, and when such a situation arose with my fiance, I said, loud and clear, NO!!!. That got home. So, I am a tad suprised to see anyone asking What should she have done? Why, exactly the same as I did. Purvi never lacked for the guts to raise her voice, and one firm No from her would have stopped Arjun cold in his tracks. She controls him totally now and it was the same then. So what was the problem?

They might have been going to get married the next day, but to me, jumping the gun in such a situation would have been a betrayal of all that my mother had taught me, and thus non-sanskaari. If it is ok with you and the younger generation, you are of course free to have your take on it, but I do not change my stand. No way. And yes, for me all that Aradhana type stuff is disgusting, and I do not see any need to apologise for that and say it is 'my POV absolutely'. Whose else would it be, anyway?

I do not buy these Ishq par zor nahin maxims, especially since, when things go badly wrong, it is always the woman who is left to carry the can. That is invariably shown clearly in all these films, the Mala Sihna specialities, to drive the point home to those young women in the audience who might, even in those days, have had boyfriends who got 'hot and heavy'. None of them were shown sashaying thru the whole unscathed like apni Purvi, thanks of the cavalier who rescued her, whom she now takes for granted as a repository for all her umpteen problems.

To revert, Arjun might have died that evening in a car crash, whereupon Purvi would have joined the Dhool ka Phool brigade. How stupid would that be? She would never be able to live it down, nor would her child. And that would be, to me, the worst of all. People have no right to create these kinds of situations for the children involved.

Finally, I did not say that the Arjun-Purvi rain scene was contrived; it was that roll on the dirty boards in that wet, grungy shack that was contrived. It was not at all like her, or in fact even like him

Pallavi, please write me off as a has been derelict from the previous century, and do not waste your time arguing any more with me on this point, for it will be time and effort wasted.

Ah yes, the 'bhool'. Not just Arjun, but Purvi too says exactly the same thing several times, to Arjun, and to the whole crowd at that party. That is because it was a mistake and given her upbringing (see, I am not bringing up the sanskaars!😉), she must be very sorry it ever happened. It is not something to be proud of. But that does not make it 'dirty'.

As for Pari, if Onir had not materialised out of the blue and played the knight errant, she would have been branded naajaayaz by the Kolkata chawlvaasis, seeing that her mother never bothered about that aspect and thought she could tackle it on her own. It is not at all easyfor a single woman to bring up a child with no declared father, even in a 2013 metro in India.

Shyamala Di

Originally posted by: pallavi25

Dear Shyamala di,

Ovi Arjun rain sequence was more contrived not on the basis of whether they were married but because it was out of character for OVI to dance in the rain or Arjun to dance with her! Purvi and Arjun used to do the typical romantic lover things all the time, like getting wet in the rain, eating street food, strolling down the streets of Mumbai. Have we ever seen Ovi Arjun do mundane lovey dovey scenes like that? Nope...so that rain sequence WAS smarmy and contrived!

As for Purvi being sanskari...what is the exact definition of sanskari? I want to know. If sanskari means refusing the man you love from coming too close, she did that several times before the shack scene. But that evening was different, they were engaged, got wet in the rain and in a weak moment she relented and let him do it! When the man she loved wanted to get hot and heavy, what would she do? Scream and push him away? 😆 Guys can be pretty persuasive when the girl is in love and thats what happened. And besides she knew they would get married the next day so that made all the difference! If that makes her non-sanskari, why then all the heroines in movies like Aradhana, Andaaz, etc, all the Ekta serials heroines ...all of these ladies, girls are ghor Un-sanskari and deserve our contempt.
All I can say is "Ishq pe zor nahin" 😳
But Arjun calling it a bhool is just damage control... ...he is a scoundrel for being ashamed of loving Purvi. Calling it a bhool just made it dirty, made Pari's existence a sin...now .THAT IS REALLY DIRTY!

Originally posted by: sashashyam
Dear Janhvi and Kalapi,

I am not sorry for entering this debate, for it is hardly a one on one. I am not at all interested in the rain issue, which seems to have taken up several pages, but I would like to add my twopennyworth on the other and much more important question. So please bear with me, both of you.

To my mind, Ovi stays back for that one night because after listening to Arjun's desperate pleas to her to stay and his frantic explanations of how he was never unfaithful to her (technically only, but let that pass), she knows that he will make a special effort to woo her back, and she wants to be so wooed.

It is the deepest desire of her heart to have him care for her and need her for real, and perhaps she hopes, after listening to his desperation, and learning that he has given up Pari as well, that maybe, just maybe, he really wants her at long last (she thinks that he gave up Pari to persuade her to stay. I do not agree, for it was a case of force majeure. But what matters here is what Ovi believes. and not what I or we believe, even if we are right and she is wrong).

I would not fault for not having stuck to her original decision to leave with Manav. nor for having had that night with Arjun, for her reasons for doing both are the same, as per my understanding, as outlined above, and they are perfectly valid as seen thru her eyes.

When she leaves in the end, it was, I think. because she realises that while Arjun is trying the hardest he can to make things the way she would want it, it is still an act and not the real thing. She has, finally, grown up enough to understand the difference between what she wants and what she can get. and she is ready to walk out rather than settle for false coin, no matter that it is gilded.

That is it, Finally, if a mangalsutra does not a marriage make, and I would grant that on a case by case basis, there is still a definite difference between being married and not being married, at least for an old dinosaur like me. I was never more let down than after the Arjun-Purvi shack rumours, which I had denied to the very end, were proved to be true.

Ovi is, as of now, married to Arjun, both technically and, from her side, emotionally as well. That, to old diehards like me, does make a difference.

As for the Arjun-Ovi rain sequence seeming contrived, it was, but then so was the Arjun-Purvi gig in that dirty wet shack Why the devil did they not drive home and dry out there? It was unbelievable in Purvi, if not in Arjun, since she was such a sanskaari girl, always going on and on about her middle class sanskaars .

Yesterday, it was also astonishing to see Arjun talk of the shack sequence as a bhool that was committed anjaane me. Anjaane me? To listen to him, one would have assumed that it was nothing out of the ordinary, but rather like Kunti trying out the mantra and ending up with Karna!

Shyamala

Edited by sashashyam - 12 years ago

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Kalapi

@Kalapi

Dazzler

Posted: 12 years ago

#87

Originally posted by: soapwatcher1
Dear Kalapi, sorry to butt in but a mere mangalsutra does not a marriage make. If it did, then we would all be celebrating Arjun's and Ovi's marriage, she has a mangalsutra around her neck, what more does she need to make the marriage real? Why are we then applauding her for leaving Arjun? If a mangalsutra was the only thing necessary, all would be well.

A mangalsutra (at least to me) symbolizes what a marriage signifies - love and commitment in a union between a man and a woman. Both these were lacking between Arjun and Ovi yesterday, no love on his part and no commitment on her part as she had already decided to leave him before doing the deed. A mangalsutra is not a license to indulge in bodily pleasures. Love and commitment were both present when Purvi and Arjun did the deed, there was love between them and they were both committed to each other at that point in time, rain or no rain to incite poor mortal Arjun. So I will not play the moral judge here, suffice it to say both girls were human as was the guy. If one pair was wrong, the other was wrong as well. If we can excuse one and put it down to human frailty and that much celebrated emotion, love, the other can be similarly excused.

My dear dear Janhvi, I must confess that I come from the era of dinosaurs and to me the mangla sutra gives the respectability of engaging in sex and having legit babes.

So, in short to me and to the societies I am born and right now work in (which are the Conservative Eastern culture and also forward Western outlook) Pari is an illegitimate baby born of a unwed single mom who had a ONS.

And if a baby is born of Ovi and Arjun, will be a legit baby born of parents tied in holy matrimony…

So, you see I am very prudish and conservative in my views and am very unapologetic about it too. Now, I have a question for you. Now, you might agree with me that about 90% of Indians go for arranged marriages and most are preggo within a year of their marriage. So, it is fair to conclude that they got preggo within the first couple of months, right? So, do you think all these marriages develop love and trust that quickly and if not, will you consider these babies to be illegitimate (according to your POV for the marriages are San those essential prerequisites) and should be considered illegitimate?? I haven't seen that happen, but could be willing to say that should be the latest world order. that no marriage is Ok, only love and trust needs to be scored for making babies??

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Kalapi

@Kalapi

Dazzler

Posted: 12 years ago

#88

Originally posted by: pallavi25

Who said middle class girls dont do roop tera mastana? Is there an unwritten rule abt this? I didnt get the memo! 😆 In fact, in Aradhana, Sharmila WAS a middle class girl who did roop tera mastana with RK and she suffered a lot as its consequence.

Inmost Ekta shows its the middle class girls who get seduced by the handsome, rich hero and always pay for their "mistake" These shows are like morality plays which makes me wonder if India is going backwards to the middle ages but of course its mostly in the small towns and villages where these attitudes are popular.

My dear dear PAllavi, I never said taht middle girl or for that matter any girl cannot have the roop tera mastani moment. Of course, they can. But the problem is that unwed pregnancies arent that welcome in India, right? Families will rush to hide it, as Purvi is shown doing. Not only that one hardly get an Onir type, running to protect a preggo lady giving her the aura of respectability and marriage. Now that Purvi's khaand is ut in the open, I am yet to see gossipy Indian talking about her. Alas, we see Ekta's Cvs showing Onir being gossiped about, when Purvi's khaad with her jeeju could get the eyes and tongue rolling mercilessly. Sp, no there isn't a memo but are consequences that aren't shown here. And btw, these consequences exist everywhere in the world...

And of course its all about adoption, who is apna, who is paraya. Deshmukhs are so protective abt Ovi's feelings, her well-being because shes their own blood, they dont care if Purvi or even Pari live or die, if they are starving on the streets! Thats how selfish that whole bunch is! Purvi shd have never sacrificed for that selfish bunch of people! Shame on them! They dont even care for the little baby who was with them for the 1st 3 months of her life! Nobody cares for her!

Well, it might be to you that all comes to who is adopted and who isn't. But, if I have 2 girls and if 1 of my girl did what Purvi to her sister, I could have been mad as hell on her. Actually, Deshmukhs did care that is why MAnav did take the lawyer and tried saving Onir too. Maybe, you could have done aarti of Purvi, I couldn't even if Purvi was my own flesh and blood. I could have been Hell personifies that one of my daughter decided to act God and put my name and my family to shame. I could have esaily disown her. I said to Janhvi that I am old-fashioned and am proud of it, for that is my value system I am born, raised and live by. So, to each their own. Btw, even I agree Purvi shouldn't have scarificed not for Archana and now for the baby swapping, for Arjun/Ovi's marriage. Who gave her the right again to act God??

Re: Getting wet in the rain, Ovi said bachpan mein jab barish mein hum kheltey the or something like that, Arjun didnt join in she said, he would be too busy with books and studies or work at a later stage.

Implausible why? Ovi Deshmukh, spoiled rich kid of Manav Deshmukh, lived in a mansion with a Butler for Gods sake. Shes not like you or I or our kids who get wet in the sprinklers. I cannot imagine an 8 yr old Ovi jumping around in the rain in the carefully manicured lawns outside her Canada mansion. She was a Barbie Doll, more prone to playing with dolls and china tea sets. Savita would not have allowed it either. Teju probably did things like that but not Ovi...that was just contrived by CVs. This is just to point out the snarky things manufactured by CVs, not to diss Ovi Arjun friendship which I dont have doubts abt...Capisce? 😃

Well, I am going by what is being shown by the Cvs - there isn't any speculation here. So, according to them Ovi did get carefree in the rain, end of story...btw, I hardly think we can judge the 19 yrs old Ovi with what her childhood could be like, but really that is besides the point, blooper or not, we have to take what the CVs are trying to show us...as they are the director of this ship😃

And Re: Rain debate, I am a responsible Mom and wouldnt want my kids to get sick from getting wet in the Northeast rain...that would result in a sick and cranky kid, doctor visits, problems with medicating a cranky kid, sleepless nights, missed school and homework, classwork which take weeks to catch up with! Im sure most Moms would agree with me, better be safe than sorry, Prevention is better than Cure! 😃

And I have walked here in the rain before, when I didnt drive and its damned unpleasant, cold, damp and not warm at all, not even in summertime!

Well, Good to know😃, but I do live in the NE too, and I do allow my kids to get wet. I have lived in CAnada too and have drenched myself (and enjoyed doing so). So, that is individual perspective here, not a rule. Btw, I did say, showing getting wet in the rain is cultural too, and Cvs have to cater to an Indian audience - so, rain issue is really a non-issue from my POV...

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Kalapi

@Kalapi

Dazzler

Posted: 12 years ago

#89

Originally posted by: sashashyam
Dear Janhvi and Kalapi,

Yesterday, it was also astonishing to see Arjun talk of the shack sequence as a bhool that was committed anjaane me. Anjaane me? To listen to him, one would have assumed that it was nothing out of the ordinary, but rather like Kunti trying out the mantra and ending up with Karna!

Shyamala

😆😆

And Arjun is also Canadian educated that emphasizes on Sex education...well, what more can be said, it seems that these 2 young ppl engaging in premarital sex, weren't even ready for the possible consequences...

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rayadallie

@rayadallie

Dazzler

Posted: 12 years ago

#90

The discussion here is very enlightening, I must say. I enjoyed reading all the views but I am still somewhat shocked at some views that go all out to damage a woman character and to shine that of the other woman. Are we really serious when we talk about morals?

Had purvi taken an abortion after the ONS would she have been ridiculed for what happened between she and arjun? I doubt it. But because she decided to keep that child from that immoral act, she is being ridiculed and spat upon. My God, it seems better to commit the sin of murder than premarital sex.

In ovi's case it does not matter how you get married, as long as you are married and wears mangalsutra all is fine. you can commit how many mistakes, it is all good.

Wow, My point of view

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How stupid can this get?:Mod note pg19 - Page 9

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