Arshi my dear,
We are beginning to resemble last night's duelling duo, you and I! 😉 I dislike Daadi for the reasons I have stated in this comment, and there I stay, I have no use for anyone whose compassion is so selective and whose capacity for harshness toward those she distrusts seems unlimited. You admire her for all the reasons you have cited here. So the only
vikalp is for us to agree to disagree re: this unregenerate old martinet!😉
As for Rishi Kanada, yes of course he used the word
anu, for that was the only one he could have used at that time. And he might have been wrong on many other ideas of his.He was not the first nor will he be the last man of science to be wrong in his ideas, Any number of practicing scientists are wrong, all the time, and when one loses out, the shindy that is made is terrific!
But that does not negate Kanada's scientific bent of mind, even if he could not prove the
anu concept because of a lack of the empirical approach. That is why I noted that he was "widely credited with having originated the atomic theory of matter", not with having discovered the atom. Just like Einstein propounded the Special Theory of Relativity, which was not proved by experiment till much later. That is why he got his physics Nobel for discovering the photoelectric effect, not for his theory of relativity.
The point is that no one else, not even in the scientifically advanced West, had that idea of the atomic theory of matter, and that for hundreds of years, till Dalton came along. The person who originates an idea deserves the Nobel as much as the one who proves it, though he often does not get it.
As for
the Great Amrit Hunt, I tried hard and at great length, both in response to your comments on my last but one thread, and in the annexure to my latest, to clarify that
-Rao and Shiva are
not thinking of using the amrit for themselves beyond using a
kan to revive the Kund (or perhaps, as seemed to be the idea last night, just discover an existing one and use it to revive the Kund)
-that they are
not scheming to somehow use the Kund to make the
amrit appear at the end of the Mahakumbh.
As far as I can make out, and I have listened repeatedly and carefully to the Shiva-Rao conversations and to Greyerson's long explanation to Balivesh about what the Secret Society had gleaned from the ancient tomes they had laid hands on (undoubtedly from the Nazis who escaped to Argentina!), the
amrit will appear on its own, and the task of the
garudas is to keep it invisible from the bad guys.
As for the fear that activating the Kund will revive the war for the amrit, why, the Secret Society has, quite independently of both Shivanand and the Kund's miraculous properties, decided to fight it out for the amrit, not the one kan in the Saraswati Kund, but the whole lot. Of what use would one kan be for the Secret Society of for that matter to the 'Veshes? They want it all, and they are not going to forage in the Kund to get it.
I do not see the Rao plan for reactivating the Kund and the amrit protection issue as separate. As far as I could make out from what Rao tells Shiva about the machine, they are planning to locate the
jeevit ansh of the
vilupt Saraswati under the Kund, and then trace its course back to the presumed point at the Sangam, the hotly contested Sector 53, and thus get a clear fix on where exactly the Saraswati, and the
amrit kumbh, will surface there. They need to know this so that they can spot the rising
amrit with the minimum delay, get to it
in time and hide it from evil eyes.
Shades of Munich: As Daadi's idea that Shiva and Rao are going to violate a sacred space by running that gizmo there, but that the outrage inflicted on her Panth and her family by the 'Veshes is only due to their
karma, for which no revenge should be sought, but instead they should be drawn into the warm embrace of the Brahma Nisht Panth by the Rudra-Maya union, it reminds me of just one thing.
Of Neville Chamberlain, his infamous meeting with Hitler, and the Munich Agreement of September 1938, after which he proclaimed, on his return to England, that he had won "peace for our time". We all know what happened a year later. With the 'Veshes, it will not be a year!
Never mind all this, Arshi, I love your posts no matter how much I disagree with you at times. You stick to your stand, and I will stick to mine! What intrigues me is how Utkarsh is going to keep all these tangled threads separate and then weave them into one neat tapestry at the very end. It is not going to be easy, not at all, and I only hope he manages it with a minimum of appeal to the willing suspension of our disbelief!
This apart, all this hairsplitting over plans and motives and beliefs, though it is a great deal of fun, is beginning to resemble a never ending medieval debate, that raged in Europe and England, about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin! I am myself conscious of being sucked into this quicksand, and as of now, I plan to discipline myself under this head, in the fond hope that this resolution does not end up like my New Year ones!😉
No ritual obeisance by Shiva: Did you note one thing in this segment?Shivanand, who otherwise makes it a fetish to do
paanv padna of his mother when he meets her and again when he leaves her, regardless of the fact that she almost never blesses him, did not make any move to do that last night. Maybe this will be the beginning of his defying her openly; he was dismayed and almost rebellious when Prof. Rao ordered him to pack up. There is hope for him yet, it seems!
Shyamala
Originally posted by: Arshics
Aastha se itni unaastha kyon?
While Dadi's point of view seems to have lost all support, her POV is significant and Is the fibre of our society.
( another powerful line from last night - drishti vs drishtikon )
When we site rishi kanada as having discovered atom - I don't think he discovered atom - he postulated that all matter must be made of indestructible particles called 'Anu', from brilliant logical deduction.
This today has been borne out by experiment, he also postulated many more things which have been disproved by modern day experimental science.
But his inner gyan led him to postulate many wonderful scientific ideas, which in the absence of scientific and empirical proofs, remained confined to a time and Became 'lupt'.He had gyan, but not the 'Vigyan'
But that is not the point here. We know more than Dadi, so we know of the danger to amrit, and hence we dismiss her stubborness.
We also laud Shiva as a hero when he says rakshakon ke parivar nahi hote
But what has the raksha of amrit got to do with rejuvenating the saarswati Kund?
These are two separate projects.
and this is the conflict - sansaar vs parivar
Gyan vs Vigyan
Astha vs shodh
Yog vs payog
Whether Dadi is right or shiva - it's a question that to me has no answer
Should they be protecting the sansaar at all costs and sending the amrit back into hiding - yes
Should shiva violate a space his mother considers sacred - no
Should shiva and professor Rao use a part of the amrit for their own plans - debatable - for while their intent maybe 'for the good for humanity' it will prove to be like -fusion - atomic energy - discovered by Einstein due to his passion for science and brilliance ( shiva ) envisioned by him to become a source of energy. And misused by powers that be ( veshes? Rao himself? Cardinal and Grerson? Our corrupt politicians) for creating a nuclear holocaust of terrifying proportions the tremors of which shake our world till today.
It is in this that shiva and Rao display Vigyan and not gyan - having found something as powerful as amrit and having taken that one boond - how do they ensure that it doesn't fall into wrong hands
Will the war for Saraswati Kund not start again, if it's magical powers are established again? And is not the family again in danger of being destroyed because everyone will want to own that one boond of amrit ?
Will there not be death and destruction again if an ansh of amrit exists in the Shivanand home, which while he may consider to be his sole property, but the others who are clearly more vile and evil and unethical and greedy will kill for?
Rakshakon ke parivar hote hain! Shiva ka parivar hai!
Amrit ki raksha uski niyati hai
Lekin amrit ka ek ansh apne liye rakhna - iska adhikar usko nahi hai...
Vishlesh roop se tab, jab yeh Uske poore parivar ko ek baar phir bhasm kar dega
Woh swarthi hai, utna hi Jitni Dadi hai
Kyonki ek bhi amrit ki boond par adhikar uske kissi rakshak ka nahi hai!
But I again digress by getting lost in the story,
The point is that while Shivas is the voice of reason, Dadi's is the voice of caution.
He denotes progress and she restraint.
We need both, she can see that once Saraswati Kund is active, vultures will again attack, and again what she is so painstakingly rebuilding will be lost
Her family will be again exposed to death and danger
Last time maybe shiva did not know the consequence of exposing the Kund to the world
This time he does - the project amrit raksha and Kund jeevan are two different -and not interlinked, but Rao has made them so, and shiva seems to have too much astha in him, to realize that.
Dadi is oblivious of the first - and I am sure will be proud of her son for it. She has lived through the tragedy unlocked by the second, and so is staunchly opposed to it.
I stand with her. We have had debates on who suffered most in that devastation of Dadi's family (yes Dadi's for clearly shiva has no family )
How does it matter? From different standpoints each suffered worst than the other.
Shiva needs to understand that activating the Kund will again put the parivar in the same situation - but then it's not his parivar!
Let's look at project amrit raksha and project Saraswati Kund as two seperate projects.
One is inevitable and dharma - the other is a choice - a conscious choice made by shiva - a choice that is dangerous - a choice that Dadi opposes
And I do too.
Edited by sashashyam - 10 years ago