Aastha ya Vigyan - tark vitark ! - Page 3

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sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#21
A beautiful take on this debate, my dear Shruthi.

Especially the part in bold. Which is why I wrote earlier on this thread:

The problem with Daadi is that she does not understand that nothing can be retained unchanged, for change is the one certainty in life. And there is no such thing as doing nothing (to change things), for inaction itself is a form of action, as it has definite consequences.

So, when she thinks that by avoiding all investigation of the Kund, and not provoking the Sri Santh Panth, all will be well, she could not be more wrong. Hatred and the savage desire to dominate cannot be foiled by the tactics of an ostrich.

Shyamala Di

Originally posted by: shruthiravi

Today your post is really remarkable Arshics especially the part you mentioned rithambhara pragya. Also sp108 has added nice addition to it. In a nutshell Mai understands people, she can hear the sound of silence, make sense out of noise. Well again according to me all qualities required for project management. Also the way she tells all the six Sanskrit words for water. That shows Mai is a learned person, she is def not what she seems to be.

Now coming to Yog and Prayog. Yes you need knowledge to take correct action. Knowledge is yog and action is prayog. BG also tells concentrate on action. But how will you take the correct action if you close the path to knowledge.
Well you need not disturb nature. But unless you understand why the nature is behaving the way it is, how will you even understand whether you are disturbing it or not.
Real problem between Aastha and Vigyan I have found is that. Aastha or religion wants things to be stagnant. And we all know stagnant water carries disease, if anything is stagnant it decays. Everything in nature moves. Sun rises and sets. Wind blows from one region to another, water flows, even it is proved that earth rotates, fire burns. So keeping things the way they are is not nature's way which people like dadi believe.
Now coming to Vigyan. Most scientists have a habit of not respecting aastha. Many abhor rituals. Even now we see people making fun of Indian mythology. Nobody asks from where did the imagination of a rishi came more than 5000 years ago Raavan can have a pushpak vimaan. How did somebody think of building a bridge over ocean. How did a man who lived 5000 years ago told " Concentrate on action not on result" and today books like " The Secret " and " Power" are widely read while BG is given a religious colour.
Our rishis told about the results of Karma. What is Karma action only. And when Newton told " Every action has an equal and opposite reaction" it is celebrated.
Vedic culture, sanathana dharma knew to balance yog and prayog, they knew the importance of gyaan and vigyaan. They practiced it. If the so called scientists can respect those traditions and then drill yes the true knowledge will emerge.
And because of that I am with Dr Rao as he is for balancing out both. Because science without faith obviously result in exploitation as we see from many instances now, also religion without knowledge is also exploitation. They both exploit one way or the other. One by claiming superiority and other by instilling fear.
I would really love to see if the script can balance it out. MK is a show that should be watched for various reasons. Especially by youngsters I would say.

shruthiravi thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#22
Shymaladi, Arshics this show is getting very interesting and intriguing also. While keeping the drama quotient they are able to make many things that are truly thought provoking and worth debate. Every character is powerfully built, with various shades.
See I wont abhor what Dadi tells. Whatever she tells has profound meaning. But she does not practice it that is where everything goes wrong.
Her stand which says cannot be questioned has positioned Shiva on the other side of the fence. His inquisitive mind cannot take things which cannot be understood and which does not make sense. So he tries to find sense in everything and his actions are based on proof. You cant fault him with the upbringing he had as far as I see it.
A closed environment always gives rise to rebellion. Someone will revolt. History has enough examples starting with French Revolution, Indian Independence and even MB the turning point was Panchali's revolt in the infamous hall of dice.
So if Dadi thinks by closing out valid questions everything will be fine, she is wrong and she will soon be proven wrong.
Arshics thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#23
ne quick question dear Shyamala, sneaking it thru in office

have shiva and rao thought of the consequence of reviving the kund?

the duty of the rakshak is to save it it comes in the open and keep a vigil till then

these two are up to more than that



1. after the amrit is saved by rakshaks and disappears again, what remains - the kund with magic healing

nanu is going to kill all for it

the whole world will be upon the family like vultures

when the kund was alive and shiva drew the attention of world to it

there was devastation

count the bodies that have died just at the anticipation of amrit

dadi has suffered through it.


Edited by Arshics - 10 years ago
shruthiravi thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#24
@Arshics we both are on the same page as far as revival of Saraswati kund goes or what if the water with magical properties appear again. How will you ensure it is in right hands and it will not be misused.
One example I can give is the patent on life saving drugs. Is it right, is it ethical, how is it ensured that lakhs of people who do not have means to buy those drugs are deprived of life when the medicine that can give them life is available in market.
But again the question of how will you subsidize, who will fund the research required to find those drugs. How will Pharma companies makes profit. So what is the solution. We need research, but we also have to ensure life saving drugs available to everyone in need. Is there a middle path. What is right and wrong here.
Finding middle path is tough and that is where you need gyaan over vigyaan. It is the people who have found the middle path of the issues they confronted created history, bought about transformational changes. We call them visionaries and not every leader can take their place. That extra, the difference between 80 and 99 is what differentiates gyaan from vigyaan. Because it is said that each mark above 80 is a journey in itself and is a differentiator. While hard work can make you come till 80, to reach 99 you need something extra. And that extra makes all the difference between ordinary and extraordinary.
sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#25
Well, it seems to have been there for generations, and all of Prayag and beyond must have known about it. Why did nothing happen then? And why need it happen now either? There are so many other cases of such secret medicines, herbal oils and baths in a certain water, and so on, which are said to be very successful in curing incurable ailments. No one plunders those resources.

How many people know about the reason for the Kund's healing powers? Only a handful, the 'Veshes, the Secret Society, and Shiva's family. And the former two are not interested in the Kund or in its healing powers. They want amaratva. The Kund water cannot bestow amaratva.

And in any case, Naanu tells Balivesh clearly that he had had the Kund thoroughly searched and they could not find the srot. That it was useless to dig any more there. Which is when Balivesh tells him he need not worry as they are now going to get the whole caboodle.

So, I think this particular horse is being flogged to death!

Shyamala Di


Originally posted by: shruthiravi

@Arshics we both are on the same page as far as revival of Saraswati kund goes or what if the water with magical properties appear again. How will you ensure it is in right hands and it will not be misused.

One example I can give is the patent on life saving drugs. Is it right, is it ethical, how is it ensured that lakhs of people who do not have means to buy those drugs are deprived of life when the medicine that can give them life is available in market.
But again the question of how will you subsidize, who will fund the research required to find those drugs. How will Pharma companies makes profit. So what is the solution. We need research, but we also have to ensure life saving drugs available to everyone in need. Is there a middle path. What is right and wrong here.
Finding middle path is tough and that is where you need gyaan over vigyaan. It is the people who have found the middle path of the issues they confronted created history, bought about transformational changes. We call them visionaries and not every leader can take their place. That extra, the difference between 80 and 99 is what differentiates gyaan from vigyaan. Because it is said that each mark above 80 is a journey in itself and is a differentiator. While hard work can make you come till 80, to reach 99 you need something extra. And that extra makes all the difference between ordinary and extraordinary.

Edited by sashashyam - 10 years ago
Sandhya.A thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#26
Arshics
Aastha vs Vigyaan is a never-ending debate. But ultimately as Prof.Rao said both need each other.

No point arguing who is great- man or woman? Shakthi or Shiv? Though the obvious answer is that both need each other for their importance and survival. Application of one ignoring the other leads only to disaster.

Aastha without vigyaan leads to superstitions, leads to stagnancy, leads to the likes of Balivesh and such false saadhus exploiting people.

Vigyaan without aastha, where vigyaan aims to earn power money and fame leads to calamity. Like the dynamite, nuclear technology, cloning, etc.

Our ancient sages had aastha and vigyaan. They were aware of nuclear technology, (brahmastra), surrogation ( birth of Balram ) television (sanjaya 'seeing' the kurukshetra 'live'), could do surgery (sushrutha) were aware of electric and magnetic fields of the earth (married women wear silver on the second toe as silver is a good conductor against gold as thereis a nerve from that toe to the womb that strengthens it.) Many of our practices have science behind it. But most of the science was forgotten and lost as there was no documentation and methodical approach as advised by vigyaan . Now isn't that a grave loss that resulted in the concept of western superiority?

Inspite of the sages vigyaan ka gyaan along with their aastha, it was lost. But daadi here is in a worse outlook. She doesn't want vigyaan to even peep in her aastha. She can shun rao and Shivanand from the kund with her stern looks and tark vitark. But if Greyson and co barge in and forcibly take over and decide to revive and make profits out of the Saraswati Kund , what will she do? If rao and Shivanand's vigyaan can help the duo to stay a step ahead, what harm?

With her aastha she should surely recognize that so much in life is a question of bhagya. One has to do his karma/dharma without looking for karma phal. Isn't it Rao and Shivanand's dharma to protect the amrit and revive the kund when they know that their gyaan and vigyaan can help them in their goal? Why not give them room for that ?
Edited by Sandhya.A - 10 years ago
shruthiravi thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#27
Superb post Sandhya and I agree to you completely that it is the closed environment that was mostly propogated by patriarchal society in the middle ages that has resulted in ancient wisdom getting buried.
And it is time we went back to those with an open mind to understand things with the belief that all the things had a good purpose. I am sure we will be able to connect things logically also.
happychappy thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#28
spoiler alert
My most creative excuse for Dadi - she's suffering from Post-traumatic Stress Disorder - at some level she is paralysed by fear. So although she behaves like she's stubborn to the point of stupidity, what she is deep inside, is terrified.

Fear of losing Rudr, mostly. So she's shut her ears and padlocked all the doors... into her mind.

Dr Rao should reason this out and make the case to her that Rudr is safer if she lets them go ahead with their mission. That would be one way to get her to even listen to their case...If the other side wins, anyway they'll all be bhasm! Along with large swathes of humanity.

In the meantime, waiting to see how Dadi reacts to the potential loss of her new-found "amrit ki boond" aka Maya! (per latest spoilers) And how will she manage to blame Sivanand for that now? 😒




pasumarthisa thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#29

Originally posted by: happychappy

spoiler alert
My most creative excuse for Dadi - she's suffering from Post-traumatic Stress Disorder - at some level she is paralysed by fear. So although she behaves like she's stubborn to the point of stupidity, what she is deep inside, is terrified.

Fear of losing Rudr, mostly. So she's shut her ears and padlocked all the doors... into her mind.

Dr Rao should reason this out and make the case to her that Rudr is safer if she lets them go ahead with their mission. That would be one way to get her to even listen to their case...If the other side wins, anyway they'll all be bhasm! Along with large swathes of humanity.

In the meantime, waiting to see how Dadi reacts to the potential loss of her new-found "amrit ki boond" aka Maya! (per latest spoilers) And how will she manage to blame Sivanand for that now? 😒




so MAya is dying? No...
Edited by pasumarthisa - 10 years ago
Arshics thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#30

Originally posted by: happychappy

spoiler alert
My most creative excuse for Dadi - she's suffering from Post-traumatic Stress Disorder - at some level she is paralysed by fear. So although she behaves like she's stubborn to the point of stupidity, what she is deep inside, is terrified.

Fear of losing Rudr, mostly. So she's shut her ears and padlocked all the doors... into her mind.

Dr Rao should reason this out and make the case to her that Rudr is safer if she lets them go ahead with their mission. That would be one way to get her to even listen to their case...If the other side wins, anyway they'll all be bhasm! Along with large swathes of humanity.

In the meantime, waiting to see how Dadi reacts to the potential loss of her new-found "amrit ki boond" aka Maya! (per latest spoilers) And how will she manage to blame Sivanand for that now? 😒


It's not a creative excuse. It's what I seriously believe to be true. Thank you for giving it a serious name, but it really is true of what Dadi is feeling.

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