Karna: Does He Deserve So Much Respect??[DT Note Page 15] - Page 18

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varaali thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
There is one another character in the Mahabharata whose life mirrors that of Karna. The circumstances which were forced upon Karna were similar to what this character too had to face.
This person too, though born to a mother of royal lineage had to be abandoned by his birth parents. Nevertheless, his adopted parents showered love and affection on him.


Again, in striking similarity to Karna's life, this boy too did not get the martial education that a kshatriya prince deserved. He spent his childhood in a village amidst rural people, animals and trees.


He was able to obtain a kshatriya-worthy education only when he was sixteen years old.


His guru was not the best in Aryavarta, yet he acknowledged his Guru's efforts and offered the best dakshina his guru could have wished for. By his own perseverance he went on to become the greatest warrior of his times. He did not resort to telling bare faced lies to his guru.


This person too, at the time of his wife's swayamvar was derided by her brother because he had been brought up parents who belonged to a lower caste. He let his deeds to the talking.


Though he was a champion warrior, when the greatest battle was about to be fought, he had no qualms in dropping his bow and picking up the reins of a chariot. He willingly took up the charioteering job from which Karna so desperately wanted to avoid.


Why don't I see anyone feeling "sorry" for this guy?


BTW- I am talking about Krishna - Lord Krishna, Btw.


Edited by varaali - 11 years ago
varaali thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: ...Diala...

Surya to Karna, Vaisampayana to Janamejaya both say the earrings make him immortal.. Krishna to Arjun am not sure if I can take it up..


Part of Vyasa's typical hyperbole - something that is his signature.

How can anyone, that too a human being be immortal? Even the Asuras did not get such a boon.
Neutral2 thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: varaali


Karna's K-K did not make him "immortal". The brahmin's curse (when Karna shot down his cow dead) ensured him a gory end.

Karna gets Indra's weapon in lieu of his Kavach / Kundala. So at best, this can be termed as a barter- certainly not a voluntary donation.

Thanks to his Guru Parashurama's curse, Karna knew his K- K will be of no use when faced with a Brahmastra / Brahamashira. So why not get at least Indra's weapon in return?

Arjuna got no such freebie- even from his own dad.


I am not going too much into Karna's involvement in the Lakshagriha or the VH incident.

According to the originals, the Lac Palace was a mastermind of Kanika- one of Dhritarashtra's chief ministers. As for Karna's comment during the VH, it was during the heat of the moment when passions / emotions were running high. Almost everyone present there with the exception of Vikarna was guilty to some extent.

There was only one fatal mistake which Karna committed and for which he paid with his life. - lying to his Guru Parashurama. That pretty much sealed his fate.



Karn Kavach Kundal definitely made him immortal. I think Karn Kavach and Kundal was originated from Samudra Manthan. It is written that Kundal is made of Amrit. It ensure immortality. However I don't know if one cut Karn's both ear and then behead him can kill him or not. May be Kavach also protect neck.

And may be brahmastra wont penetrate Kavach. As I said Kavach was originated from Samudra Manthan it was equal to Vajra or Brahmastra. Vajra was given to Dev Indra and Kavach was given to Surya Dev The proof is that there is only one divine Kavach that can not be destroy by even Indra Vajra.
If there are many Kavach, Surya Dev can give another to karn and if any weapon (say Shakti weapon which is given to Karn) could penetrate Kavach there is no need for Indra to beg his Kavach. He just give that weapon to Arjun.
I think Pasupatastra could kill karn also as Arjun have said that even immortal cant escape this. But Arjun had used his pasupatastra in killing Jayadrath.
And if you say it was not Daan but an exchange then Karn was at loss side and he knew this. My POV is giving higher prize and taking lower prize is also Daan.
Arijit007 thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
feelng sorry for krishna??? i felt bliss when i discuss or talk about him.
...Diala... thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: varaali


Part of Vyasa's typical hyperbole - something that is his signature.

How can anyone, that too a human being be immortal? Even the Asuras did not get such a boon.


Is this used for anyone else? Ive seen 'invincible' used for almost everyone.. but not 'immortal'.. why?
riti4u thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: varaali

There is one another character in the Mahabharata whose life mirrors that of Karna. The circumstances which were forced upon Karna were similar to what this character too had to face.

This person too, though born to a mother of royal lineage had to be abandoned by his birth parents. Nevertheless, his adopted parents showered love and affection on him.

Again, in striking similarity to Karna's life, this boy too did not get the martial education that a kshatriya prince deserved. He was able to obtain such an education only when he was sixteen years old.

His guru was not the best in Aryavarta, yet he acknowledged his Guru's efforts and offered the best dakshina his guru could have wished for. By his own perseverance he went on to become the greatest warrior of his times. He did not resort to telling bare faced lies to his guru.

This person too, at the time of his wife's swayamvar was derided by her brother because he had been brought up parents who belonged to a lower caste. He let his deeds to the talking.

Though he was a champion warrior, when the greatest battle was about to be fought, he had no qualms in dropping his bow and picking up the reins of a chariot. He willingly took up the charioteering job from which Karna so desperately wanted to avoid.

Why don't I see anyone feeling "sorry" for this guy?

BTW- I am talking about Krishna - Lord Krishna, Btw.


Coz you are talking about Lord...and we are talking about a Human... thats a difference.😊
Humans are bound to have certain negative shades..which just make them human ... Anger,bitterness, jealousy ..getting impulsive... these all are human weaknesses...These weaknesses are present in every one of us..Some acknowledge it some dont.. ofcourse Krishna is far away from those human qualities..and thus he is lord himself...
We talk about a human being called Karna.. who liked you said did commit mistakes in his life owing to negative traits that human possessed...most of them created due to the situations coming in his life... Yet inspite of that he came stronger and proved himself to be super human when chances came in his life ..He rose above petty human weaknesses and gave his life up..
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: Medha.S


thanks for the citations --😊

i dont even know from what novel or version people brought the 'karna was reluctant" thing, yeah. I am sure there were claims that karna fought with shakuni over the lac house conspiracy because he was so damn not ok with it.🥱

obviously no citations are ever provided --





There is None. In fact, reverse (-sad that plan was not a 'success') was the 'fact' (as borne out by citation and not 'assumptions'.) After Swayanwar...

"Accompanied by his brothers, Aswatthaman, his uncle (Sakuni), Karna and Kripa the prince set out with a heavy heart for his capital. Then Duhsasana, blushing with shame, addressed his brother softly and said, 'If Arjuna had not disguised himself as a Brahmana, he could never have succeeded in obtaining Draupadi. It was for this disguise, O king, that no one could recognise him as Dhananjaya. Fate, I ween, is ever supreme. Exertion is fruitless; fie on our exertions, O brother! The Pandavas are still alive!' Speaking unto one another thus and blaming Purochana (for his carelessness), they then entered the city of Hastinapura, with cheerless and sorrowful hearts.

"Vaisampayana continued, 'Having heard these words of the monarch, Vidura said, 'O king, let thy understanding remain so without change for a hundred years!' Having said this Vidura returned to his own abode. Then, O monarch, there came unto Dhritarashtra, Duryodhana and the son of Radha, Karna. Addressing the monarch, they said, 'We cannot, O king, speak of any transgression in the presence of Vidura! We have now found thee alone, and will, therefore, say all we like! What is this that thou hast, O monarch, desired to do? Dost thou regard the prosperity of thy foes as if it were thy own, that thou hast been applauding the Pandavas, O foremost of men, in the presence of Vidura? O sinless one, thou actest not, O king, in the way thou shouldst! O father, we should now act every day in such a way as to weaken (the strength of) the Pandavas..."


Regret !?!..if any, it was over the failure of the plot!!🤢

@MedhaS, i may opt the silence, noting discomfiture of personal nature (not you)...i meant analysis of only epic facts. No offence to fellow readers or their beliefs, even while i stick to mine.😒

Edited by smrth - 11 years ago
Cotswolds thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: Medha.S


Yep, this makes sense - or it could also be what the statement points at, Pandavas in forest -- first year of exile - helpless as much as they can be, grieving and despairing over the events obviously -- so no better time to march over and finish it quietly -- not to mention the sneakiness of it all -- Karna wants to kill them and then let the world think Pandavas simply vanished on some" unknown journey" -- resulting in the long awaited "peace" Karna and Kauravas would have after that.

And in the end, it is just Karna wanting to murder them in a very 🤬 way! Like a combination of Shakuni and Duryodhanas ways -- sneaky enough +straightforward in your face enough!


This one area of Karna I find little difficult to follow. He is a great warrior and aspires to vanquish Arjuna in the war.. As rajhansa can separate milk from water he too is righteous and understands dharm from adharm.

But yet, he is always atleast a mute spectator in every scheme, plot of Dury. Why not just go out, challenge Arjuna in one to one combat and done with it.. With no Arjuna, pandavas strength would be no big threat. This could achieve his life long ambition and also be beneficialto dury.. May be political Implications.. But he could always challenge on pretext or even when Arjuna set alone to acquire divyastra. And take a blame on himself after kiling Arjuna.

He is very generous and yet enjoys to see Pandavas' plight, savours their misery. He has a great heart yet wishes to insult and mentally torture aggrieved pandavas who are now ashamed of their deeds after vh and are living quietly in exile.

He is very happy when dury sends durvaasa to pandavas to add to their woes. The citation says him to be overjoyed in this situation. He is a noble person yet takes pleasure in this subterfuge and expects pandavas to be cursed by irascible durvaasa. Why ...

I think he knows that Krishna is supreme lord, he also acknowledges that yudhi is better ruler so obviously he is spiritually highly evolved person yet displays narrowmindedness at times..

riti4u thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: smrth


There is None. This hoax of Karna's 'regret'/ remorse' on Varnavat is such a bad case of 'fanfic' assumption, perhaps not woth. In fact, reverse (-sad that plan was not a 'success') was the 'fact' (as borne out by citation and not 'assumptions'.) After Swayanwar...

"Accompanied by his brothers, Aswatthaman, his uncle (Sakuni), Karna and Kripa the prince set out with a heavy heart for his capital. Then Duhsasana, blushing with shame, addressed his brother softly and said, 'If Arjuna had not disguised himself as a Brahmana, he could never have succeeded in obtaining Draupadi. It was for this disguise, O king, that no one could recognise him as Dhananjaya. Fate, I ween, is ever supreme. Exertion is fruitless; fie on our exertions, O brother! The Pandavas are still alive!' Speaking unto one another thus and blaming Purochana (for his carelessness), they then entered the city of Hastinapura, with cheerless and sorrowful hearts.

"Vaisampayana continued, 'Having heard these words of the monarch, Vidura said, 'O king, let thy understanding remain so without change for a hundred years!' Having said this Vidura returned to his own abode. Then, O monarch, there came unto Dhritarashtra, Duryodhana and the son of Radha, Karna. Addressing the monarch, they said, 'We cannot, O king, speak of any transgression in the presence of Vidura! We have now found thee alone, and will, therefore, say all we like! What is this that thou hast, O monarch, desired to do? Dost thou regard the prosperity of thy foes as if it were thy own, that thou hast been applauding the Pandavas, O foremost of men, in the presence of Vidura? O sinless one, thou actest not, O king, in the way thou shouldst! O father, we should now act every day in such a way as to weaken (the strength of) the Pandavas..."


Regret !?!..if any, it was over the failure of the plot!!🤢

@MedhaS, i may opt the silence, noting discomfiture of personal nature (not you)...i meant analysis of only epic facts. No offence to fellow readers or their beliefs, even while i stick to mine.😒

Quotation you provided -
1.First bold sentence of yours -please read carefully it talks about duryodhana Accompanied by all these he set out with a heavy heart.
2.Second bold line again generalises and not talk of Karna alone...
3. I dont think Karna would address Dritrashtra as father...😊
varaali thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: ...Diala...


you forgot suicide 😊



Which is what Karna effectively did when he lied to his Guru.

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