Suryadeva, Rishi Durvasa and abandonment - what should they have done? - Page 7

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TheWatcher thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#61
Wow , People here are giving links to the Original Vyas's MB ,that too claiming it to be 5000 years old , what makes you think that the sanskrit version is 100% written by Vyas? , Sanskrit versions cannot be altered? , Sorry to burst your bubble but every version whether it is Sanskrit or Hindi or English or Bengali are altered and nothing is 100% true , You cannot claim to have read the Vyas's version if you claim it you must be around 5000 years old , Every Sanskrit version has been altered in 5000 years.

trusting one version whether it is sanskrit or english is just like living in a bubble.

...Diala... thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#62
Varaali, my responses/questions in D&D
Medha.S thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#63
No, vedvyas did not gave any of us an autographed copy of the original so take the mock out,please.
We all understand what you are saying, you know our opinions on it as you have stated the same things in other threads.
I have posted the link to the moderators note.
We are to make arguements with source and links.The links have to be from somewhere.Kmg translation and is the only complete and one of the most reliable and sacred texts is the popular site.It is that simple.

Sabhayata thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#64

Well i thought TM said that this discussion was about what all Durvasa and surya dev could have done about karna situation but now i guess its turned into whether calling karna a sutputra was right or wrong or how much did he lose due to his parentage not being revealed. Well now that topic has already deviated i will like to give some of my inputs o this deviated topic.

What all did karna lose due to his parents not revealing his true identity

1)Loss love of his true brother's

2)Gained enmity of his true brother's

3)Fought all his life to be in a kshatriya class wherein actually there should have been no struggle since he was a kshatriya his life was full of struggles since he had capabilities of a kshatriya but caste of a suta.Do people really want him to accept his life as suta when every fibre of his being was telling him he can be so much more. This isnt ambition this is called being true to your abilities. If you sit quietly and dont do anything about your abilities because it will require a lot of struggle well then you are a loser which karna wasn't he was a warrior ,fighter and fought to achieve everything in his life on his own no thanks to surya dev or kunti where as really there shouldnt have been a struggle all that he achieved through struggle was his right in the first place

4)Right to lead pandavs

5)And then being killed by his own brother

This are the things karna lost due to kunti and surya dev and if some one thinks all these things are irrelevant because he had loving parents in athirath and radha i dont have anything else to say

...Diala... thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#65

Originally posted by: Sabhayata

This are the things karna lost due to kunti and surya dev and if some one thinks all these things are irrelevant because he had loving parents in athirath and radha i dont have anything else to say


Exactly! He never complained that he was unhappy as a son of Adiratha nor his admirers did.. he clearly states this to Kunti. Only complaints are he being let to die as a baby and he being deprived of Kshatriya duties and identity. he never longed for parents love but for privilege of identity
Medha.S thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#66
Sabhyata, you missed the point where suta is not a caste but a subcast of kshatriya or a group qualified as khastriyas.
Just wanted to point out since i had done the same mistake and confused shudra with suta.
riti4u thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#67

Originally posted by: Sabhayata

Well i thought TM said that this discussion was about what all Durvasa and surya dev could have done about karna situation but now i guess its turned into whether calling karna a sutputra was right or wrong or how much did he lose due to his parentage not being revealed. Well now that topic has already deviated i will like to give some of my inputs o this deviated topic.

What all did karna lose due to his parents not revealing his true identity

1)Loss love of his true brother's

2)Gained enmity of his true brother's

3)Fought all his life to be in a kshatriya class wherein actually there should have been no struggle since he was a kshatriya his life was full of struggles since he had capabilities of a kshatriya but caste of a suta.Do people really want him to accept his life as suta when every fibre of his being was telling him he can be so much more. This isnt ambition this is called being true to your abilities. If you sit quietly and dont do anything about your abilities because it will require a lot of struggle well then you are a loser which karna wasn't he was a warrior ,fighter and fought to achieve everything in his life on his own no thanks to surya dev or kunti where as really there shouldnt have been a struggle all that he achieved through struggle was his right in the first place

4)Right to lead pandavs

5)And then being killed by his own brother

This are the things karna lost due to kunti and surya dev and if some one thinks all these things are irrelevant because he had loving parents in athirath and radha i dont have anything else to say

👏 Well said... imagine plight of brother fully aware of the fact that he is standing against his own kin... n struggle he went thru because of his caste..is another story...
Sabhayata thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#68

Originally posted by: ...Diala...


Exactly! He never complained that he was unhappy as a son of Adiratha nor his admirers did.. he clearly states this to Kunti. Only complaints are he being let to die as a baby and he being deprived of Kshatriya duties and identity. he never longed for parents love but for privilege of identity

Bold exactly and the targedy is that he struggled so much to get all this where as there shouldnt have been any struggle he was a kshatriya in the first palce
and you know leave alone the materialistic things Krana never had the love and respect of his true brother's that as per me was his major loss.Panadavs are the best brother's in history as per me so loyal and so loved karan could have been one of them but kunti didnt only deprive him of his brother's true love but even deprived panadavs of that.I feel bad for both pandavas and Karna for this they both had to live as enemies and Arjuna had to kill his own brother becuase kunti wasnt willing to tell the truth.All other things i can still forget but i cant forget that she made brother's live as enemies.How bad did yudi and Arjuna feel after they knew the truth relationship between pandavas and kunti was never the same after that how could it be kunti let them be enemies to their own brother.Karna could rectify it at the end but it was too late
Medha:Thanks for the information i didnt know that but certainly as can be seem in MB Karan was treated as of the smae class as pandavas so even if he wasnt like a shudra he wasnt of the same class as pandavas as well which in reality he was
...Diala... thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#69

Originally posted by: medha00

Sabhyata, you missed the point where suta is not a caste but a subcast of kshatriya or a group qualified as khastriyas.
Just wanted to point out since i had done the same mistake and confused shudra with suta.


it is clear Sutas are not Sudras.. but for sure Sutas were not Kshatriyas equivalent and for sure he was deprived of his entitlements those were part of his birth.. you can take a look at questions I posted in D&D and give me answers if possible.. i can bring them here if you are ok..
Sabhayata thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#70

Originally posted by: AnjanaYYZ



At the first point - during the contest. If she told the Pandavas... the Pandavas would have want to rectify the injustice. Leading to greater injustice. As their parentage would have been impugned and maligned. Already Dury used to taunt whether or not they were really Pandu's sons. So, imagine Kunti adding full gasoline to that theory by declaring Karna her son with Suryadev😲

Thereafter there was always possibility that if she tried to reunite her six sons then Karna would give everything to Dury in the name of friendship.

So why go to him on the cusp of the war? Because there it was a matter of life. Life trumps Property. It was her only chance to save the lives of all six. And if not six then five - which is what Karna not Kunti decided
. And he further decided not to emotionally weaken either Dury or the Pandavas by revealing the truth to either side. Because it would have been unfair and adharma for the Pandavas to surrender to Dury and injustice to his friendship to Dury for him to abandon Dury.

As for Yudi cursing mommy and saying the war could have been avoided... he wasn't listening to Geeta! And in grief didn't realize what Karna knew - that the war of K was needed and unavoidable.

1)Ok first point agreed regarding rangbhoomi but this again proves that kunti cared what will happen to her sons the panadavs way more than she cared about what was happening to Karna
2)well their friendship took time to be strong.If kunti would have perhaps said the truth earlier when Dury and karna's friendship was forming things would have been different but by the time kunti did choose to tell the friendship was too strong for karna to turn back
3)Even before the war if kunti did tell the truth it was to save her own sons not karna at all which she did acheive thanks to Karna
Here is the extract where in she decides to tell karan the truth.What i understand was that she didnt fear Bheehsm or Drona hurting panadavs but she feared that karna would hurt them if he didnt know the truth i dont see any concern for Karna here
Hearing these words uttered by Vidura, who always wished her sons the accomplishment of their objects, Kunti began to sigh heavily, afflicted with grief, and began to think within herself, 'Fie to wealth, for the sake of which this great slaughter of kinsmen is about to take place. Indeed, in this war, they that are friends will sustain defeat. What can be a greater grief than this that the Pandavas, the Chedis,the Panchalas, and the Yadavas, assembled together, will fight with the Bharatas? Verily, I behold demerit in war. (On the other hand) if we do not fight, poverty and humiliation would be ours. As regards the person that is poor, even death is beneficial (to him). (On the other band) the extermination of one's kinsmen is not victory. As I reflect on this, my heart swelleth with sorrow. The grandsire (Bhishma), the son of Santanu, the preceptor (Drona), who is the foremost of warriors, and Karna, having embraced Duryodhana's side, enhance my fears. The preceptor Drona, it seemeth to me, will never fight willingly against his pupils. As regards the Grandsire, why will he not show some affection for the Pandavas? There is only this sinful Karna then, of deluded understanding and ever following the deluded lead of the wicked Duryodhana, that hateth the Pandavas. Obstinately pursuing that which injureth the Pandavas, this Karna is, again, very powerful. It is this which burneth me at present. Proceeding to gratify him. I will today disclose the truth and seek to draw his heart towards the Pandavas. Pleased with me, while I was living in the inner apartments of the palace of my father, Kuntibhoja, the holy Durvasa gave me a boon in the form of an invocation consisting of mantras. Long reflecting with a trembling heart on the strength or weakness of those mantras and the power also of the Brahmana's words, and in consequence also of my disposition as a woman, and my nature as a girl of unripe years, deliberating repeatedly and while guarded by a confidential nurse and surrounded by my waiting-maids, and thinking also of how not to incur any reproach, how to maintain the honour of my father, and how I myself might have an accession of good fortune without being guilty of any transgression, I, at last, remembered that Brahmana and bowed to him, and having obtained that mantras from excess of curiosity and from folly, I summoned, during my maidenhood, the god Surya. He, therefore, who was held in my womb during my maidenhood,--why should he not obey my words that are certainly acceptable and beneficial to his brothers? And reflecting in this strain, Kunti formed an excellent resolution. And having formed that resolution, she went to the sacred stream called after Bhagiratha.

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