Greatest Debate-who was the most powerfull warrior in MB - Page 9

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Vr15h thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#81

Originally posted by: LeadNitrate

If mb is seen where kanha is not god, then kanha but tm has removed the obvious choice.

I think its Arjun.
Even leaving karnaparva, Arjun defeated Karna in two of their biggest confrontations. Drauapdi swayamvar and Virat war.

In second position it is bheem and karna.



I don't agree that Arjun was superior to Bhima. During the Kurukshetra war, Arjun had both Krishna & Hanuman on his chariot. In other words, a Mahadev ansh and a Narayan ansh on his chariot. That's a huge advantage over everyone else and must be factored in.

Bhima, by contrast, won everything that he did on his own strength. Nobody helping him.

Karna's defeat @ Matsya was after he had lost his kavach-kundalas. In Draupadi's swayamvara, Arjun drew the Brahmashira, and Karna, thinking that Arjun was a Brahmin, since he was in a Brahmin guise, didn't want to use that against him, so didn't. As a result, Arjun 'won' by default.

By contrast, Bhima's victory over Karna in the Rajasuya yagna was cleaner & more comprehensive:
  • Karna had his kavacha-kundala, yet Bhima subdued him
  • Karna at that point hadn't given Kunti any promise re: her sons, so was @ liberty to kill Bhima if he could. Unfortunately for him, he couldn't
  • Bhima at that point was free to kill Karna, since he hadn't made Arjun take a vow to kill him, and also, he considered Karna unworthy of facing Arjun. Yet he was content w/ victory
...Diala... thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#82

Originally posted by: Daya_Manic

Thank you. I've read Bhishma parva and he only said that Karna is equal to Arjun. Watcher mentioned something additional.


Ok it is here.. which I think is what Watcher is talking about.. Krishna's words are a little difficult to search for.. Watcher might find it easier to search..


Hearing these words, the aged chief of the Kurus, the son of Ganga, whose eyes were covered with film slowly raising his eyelids, and causing the guards to be removed, and seeing the place deserted by all, embraced Karna with one arm, like a sire embracing his son, and said these words with great affection:--Come, come! Thou art an opponent of mine who always challengest comparison with me! If thou hadst not come to me, without doubt, it would not have been well with thee! Thou art Kunti's son, not Radha's! Nor is Adhiratha thy father! O thou of mighty arms, I
heard all this about thee from Narada as also from Krishna-Dwaipayana! Without doubt, all this is true! I tell thee truly, O son, that I bear thee no malice! It was only for abating thy energy that I used to say such harsh words to thee! O thou of excellent vows without any reason thou speakest ill of all the Pandavas! Sinfully didst thou come into the world. It is for this that thy heart hath been such. Through pride, and owning also to thy companionship with the low, thy heart hateth even persons of merit! It is for this that I spoke such harsh words about thee in the Kuru camp! I know thy prowess in battle, which can with difficulty be borne on earth by foes! I know also thy regard for Brahmanas. thy courage, and thy great attachment to alms-giving! O thou that resemblest a very god, amongst men there is none like thee! For fear of intestine dissensions I always spoke harsh words about thee. In bowmanship, in aiming weapon, in lightness of hand and in strength of weapons, thou art equal to Phalguni himself, or the high-souled Krishna! O Karna, proceeding to the city of Kasi, alone with thy bow, thou hadst crushed the kings in battle for procuring a bride for the Kuru king! The mighty and invincible king Jarasandha also, ever boastful of his prowess in battle, could not become thy match in fight! Thou art devoted to Brahmanas; thou always fightest fairly! In energy and strength, thou art equal to a child of the celestials and certainly much superior to men. The wrath I cherished against thee is gone. Destiny is incapable of being avoided by exertion. O slayer of foes, the heroic sons of Pandu are thy uterine brothers! If thou wishest to do what is agreeable to me, unite with them, O thou of mighty arms! O son of Surya, let these hostilities end with me! Let all the kings of Earth be to-day freed from danger!--
Edited by ...Diala... - 11 years ago
Medha.S thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#83
For what its worth 😆

"'Shalya said, "All great car-warriors, O Karna, say that this foremost of car-warriors, (Arjuna), even when alone, is invincible. When again, he is protected by Krishna, who will venture to vanquish him?"

"'Karna said, "As far as I have heard, such a superior car-warrior has never been born on earth! Behold my prowess, since I will contend in battle with even that Partha who is such. This prince of Kuru's line, this foremost of car-warriors, careers in battle, borne by his steeds white in hue. Perhaps he will despatch me to Yama's abode today. Know, however, that with Karna's death, these all will be exterminated.

The two arms of this prince are never covered with sweat. They never tremble. They are massive and covered with cicatrices. Firm in the use of weapons, he is possessed of great skill and endued with great lightness of hands.

Indeed, there is no warrior equal to the son of Pandu. He taketh a large number of arrows and shooteth them as if they were one. Quickly fixing them on the bow-string, he propelleth them to the distance of two miles. They always fall on the foe. What warriors is there on earth that is equal to him?

That Atiratha, endued with great activity, with Krishna as his ally, gratified the god Agni at Khandava. There, on that occasion, the high-souled Krishna obtained his discus, and Savyasaci, the son of Pandu, obtained his bow Gandiva.

There that mighty-armed one, endued with might that knows no decay, also obtained his terrible car unto which are yoked those white steeds, as also his two great celestial and inexhaustible quivers, and many celestial weapons, from the God of Fire. In the region of Indra he obtained his conch Devadatta and slew innumerable Daityas, and all the Kalakeyas.

Who is there on earth that is superior to him?

Possessed of greatness of soul, he gratified Mahadeva himself in fair fight, and obtained from him the terrible and mighty weapon Pasupata that is capable of destroying the three worlds.

The several Regents of the world, united together gave him their weapons of immeasurable energy, with which that lion among men quickly destroyed in battle those united Asuras, the Kalakhanjas.

So also, in Virata's city, moving on a single car he vanquished all of us, and snatched from us that wealth of kine, and took from all the foremost of car-warriors (portions of) their garments.

Challenging that foremost of Kshatriyas, that hero having him of Vrishni's race for his ally, that warrior who is endued with such energy and such attributes, I regard myself, O Shalya, to be the foremost of persons in all the world in point of courage. He is, again, protected by that Keshava of great energy, who is Narayana himself and who is without a rival, that high-souled Vasudeva, that ever-victorious Vishnu armed with conch, discus, and mace, whose attributes all the world united together, cannot (in narrating) exhaust in 10,000 years. Beholding the two Krishnas together on the same car, fear entereth my heart together with courage. Partha is the foremost of all bowmen, while Narayana is unrivalled in encounters with the discus. Even such are Vasudeva, and the son of Pandu. Indeed, the mountains of Himavat may move from the spot where they stand but not the two Krishnas. Both of them are heroes, possessed of great skill, firm in the use of weapons, and mighty car-warriors. Both of them have adamantine frames. Who else, O Shalya, save myself, would proceed against Phalguna and Vasudeva that are even such? The desire cherished by me today, viz., that of a battle with the son of Pandu, O ruler of the Madras, will be fulfilled without delay. Soon will that wonderful and matchless and beautiful battle take place. Either I will overthrow those two in battle today, or the two Krishnas will today overthrow me."


79, KP

TheWatcher thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#84

Originally posted by: Daya_Manic

Bhishma only said that he was equal to Arjuna. Do you have any reference for what you wrote?

And can you also provide reference of Krishna praising him?



Lol calm down, When I created this thread I wasn really a citation guy, I read it on a website and the convo is from another translation (Not KMG) which is not accepted here, that translations is accurate like KMG.

Pardon me, It was my first thread. I was a little immature when I created this thread, I only wanted to rant KARNA KARNA ! in every forum 🤣

Not to waste another post, you asked for a citation in which krishna praises Karna, here you go,

" Hear in brief, O son of Pandu! I regard the mighty car-warrior Karna as thy equal, or perhaps, thy superior! With the greatest care and resolution shouldst thou slay him in great battle. In energy he is equal to Agni. As regards speed, he is equal to the impetuosity of the wind. In wrath, he resembles the Destroyer himself. Endued with might, he resembles a lion in the formation of his body. He is eight ratnis in stature. His arms are large. His chest is broad. He is invincible. He is sensitive. He is a hero. He is, indeed, the foremost of heroes."

The above is only one of many.
Edited by TheWatcher - 11 years ago
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Posted: 11 years ago
#85

Originally posted by: Daya_Manic

Thank you. I've read Bhishma parva and he only said that Karna is equal to Arjun. Watcher mentioned something additional.

On one occasion Krishna said Satyaki is singly a match for Karna. So this is a bit contradictory to Krishna keeping Karna above Arjuna statement. That's why i need citation.



On one Occasion Drona said Abhimanyu is better than Arjuna. need citations?

Drona defeated Arjuna in Drona parva.
Edited by TheWatcher - 11 years ago
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Posted: 11 years ago
#86

Originally posted by: LeadNitrate

If mb is seen where kanha is not god, then kanha but tm has removed the obvious choice.

I think its Arjun.
Even leaving karnaparva, Arjun defeated Karna in two of their biggest confrontations. Drauapdi swayamvar and Virat war.

In second position it is bheem and karna.



False, Arjuna never defeated Karna in Swayamvar, Karna retreated because Arjuna flaunted the Brahmashira weapon which can cause destruction.

Krishna would have been the obvious choice for everyone since he is one of the most popular god in Hinduism, his popularity can be only compared to Shiva, Vishnu himself and Rama.
Edited by TheWatcher - 11 years ago
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Posted: 11 years ago
#87
Great analysis by Vrish, I count your analysis as an impartial one because you are neither a fan of Karna, Bhishma or Arjuna, that's makes your analysis worth reading.

We fans, No matter how hard we try, we are a little biased towards our favorite character.
Vr15h thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#88
I'm sorta split b/w Mr Vrikodar & Mr Vasusena 😆
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Posted: 11 years ago
#89
Drona praising Abhimanyu and placing him above Arjuna isn't contradictory in any way and quite different than the Krishna/Karna/Satyaki situation pointed by Shreya.

Abhimanyu must have been better than what Arjuna was at 16. So perhaps Drona's point was related with the age and experience. The boy lacked any celestial weapons and yet defeated all the warriors. Nobody displayed the extraordinary courage, that too at 16.
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Posted: 11 years ago
#90

Originally posted by: -Shruti

Drona praising Abhimanyu and placing him above Arjuna isn't contradictory in any way and quite different than the Krishna/Karna/Satyaki situation pointed by Shreya.

Abhimanyu must have been better than what Arjuna was at 16. So perhaps Drona's point was related with the age and experience. The boy lacked any celestial weapons and yet defeated all the warriors. Nobody displayed the extraordinary courage, that too at 16.



When the "other" warriors were 16 they didnt have the chance to display that courage, You must have a stage to show your skills, When Arjuna,Karna were 16 there was no Kurekshetra.

And secondly, is there any citation from KMG which says Abhimanyu was 16?, because I highly doubt it.


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