Mahabharat Episode Discussion Thread #1 - Page 79

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daenerysnow thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
'birth is obscure n men are like rivers whose origins are often unknown' Peter brook Mahabharata spoken thus by Duryodhan
Ie the pandavs own births was uncertain therefore what right had they to rebuke Karnas own birth as non-kshatriya?
Vr15h thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
My response

One question that strikes me is if people like Vyasa, Bhishma, Vidura etc knew about Karna's birth why didn't they reveal it earlier (much before the situation worsened to the point of war). Krishna being a Machiavellian politician may have only wanted to psychologically weaken Karna with the truth at the last moment. But people like Bhishma and Vidura were genuine opponents of war since the very beginning.

I wonder where you got the 'etc'? The only people who knew this were Kunti, Krishna, Vyasa & Bheeshma. Bheeshma got to know this from Narada, but kept it to himself.

Revealing Karna's truth would have been the best way of ending the conflict as Karna was Duryodhan's best bet for the war and even if Karna had chosen to be the second Bhishma, i.e. remained a loyal regent to Duryodhan instead of being the king himself, he would have atleast never goaded Duryodhan for the war and perhaps he may have seen to it that the dice game and Draupadi's molestation be entirely avoided.

I think the same blind loyalty that tied them to Dhritarashtra also guided them into protecting Kunti as well. After all, as the ex queen of Hastinapur, she was someone that they were at one point loyal to, so to reveal her secret w/o her consent would have been betrayal for them. Vyasa was a total outsider and not supposed to intervene - the only time he did was during the Brahmashira release. So was Narada. But Bheeshma was a one time subject - albeit indirectly - of Kunti, so couldn't do something w/o her consent.

However, it's not known at what point in the story Bheeshma got to know this secret. Some surmise that he knew it right at the beginning, which is why he approached Shalya for Madri's hand for Pandu, so that in case Kunti was exposed, Pandu would still have Madri for a queen. But if he knew it later, it could have been as late as just b4 the war, in which case, an exposure would only have cost the Pandavas their rights, which even Karna wanted to avoid.

Furthermore, Kunti seemed to be really selfish when she finally decided to reveal the truth as it was quite apparent that her only motive was to save the necks of her 5 younger sons. If she truly wanted Karna to live and get his dues as the eldest Pandava, shouldn't she have first spoken to her younger sons who were not bound by any oath of fidelity to anyone? Instead she behaved identical to Indra and approached Karna when he couldn't refuse anyone.

That she absolutely was. Karna would have been totally justified in rejecting her request. After all, if Karna could kill Ghatotkacha & help kill Abhimanyu in battle, why not Nakul or Yudisthir? Bhima too was older to Duryodhan, so it's not like Yudisthir's death would have made Duryodhan the next rightful claimant to the combined throne. As I mentioned in the Pandava AT, she had several opportunities to tell the Pandavas about Karna, but failed.

Personally, I find the war to be entirely meaningless and avoidable, and those who truly didn't want it to happen had enough options to stop it, the best being Karna's secret. The war, as I see, was a product of personal vendetta and it served no greater good. It was no 'Righteous war', as its claimed to be, as the end product was only genocide, famine and revenge-murders and there's no evidence that ordinary people suffered during Duryodhan's reign making his overthrow imminent. In fact he was a just and admired ruler, which is why he ascended to heaven directly.

Now you are stretching it. The 2-state solution - Hastinapur & Indraprastha - was the perfect one for this situation, and until Duryodhan got jealous and plotted that game of dice, things were ideal. Duryodhan got to be the yuvraj of Hastinapur and had the only claim on the Kuru title. The Pandavas got a kingdom where they could safely live, free from the plots of the Kauravas. Karna had his own kingdom in Anga. Had Duryodhan had a live-and-let-live approach to life like Yudisthir, he could have happily lived & ruled Hastinapur.

The Pandavas could not have lived in Hastinapur had Duryodhan become Yuvraj. He'd still have wanted them dead, and they & their families would always have been insecure. The only alternative then would have been them leaving the kingdom and going to Dwarka or Kuntidesh to live. Karna could not have bought their rights from Duryodhan - the latter would still have wanted at least Bhima & Arjun dead.

One thing I do fault Yudisthir - for including the Kauravas as co-hosts in the Rajasuya. He should have bypassed them and excluded them - maybe just invite Bheeshma, Drona, Kripa & Vidura there. Had he done that, no maya mahal episode, and Duryodhan wouldn't have gotten to see Indraprastha, and no game of dice
Edited by .Vrish. - 11 years ago
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: debasree04

CVs want to show more drama in it...so all the dialogues like what u used to hear in daily soaps...
Hahaha...kya dikha rehe hei...😆😆
Duyrodhan never ever insult Kunti/Pandu or any elder not even Yudhistir...he always clashes with Bheem only...


I agree...duryodhan never insult pandav,s like this 😕
Vr15h thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
This Priyamvada character is really annoying. But more than that, I thought that Kunti parted company w/ her after marriage. So how is she there again?
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Posted: 11 years ago
@koolsadhu1000
very well said .. not only the curse given to Kunti had no substance but the man cursed her wasn't the right person to curse her .. her curse should have gone from one who could embrace the authority and right of cursing as well as the pain of Karna's death .. I believe Duri was the right person coz in whole life of karna Duri was the only one who loved n respected Karna sincerely .. Yudi on the other hand was the prime person of Adharma in epic .. most of his works and words are unjustifiable .. the man who sell his own wife has no right to curse to womankind .. I really wonder y a strong woman like Draupadi who protested so strongly didn't curse him for her humiliation
Arijit007 thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
you're right, that priyamvada is so annoying. btw i forgot to mention a dialogue, mor ke pankh jab mor se jude hote hain, tab woh uske aabhushan hote hain, jab tutte hain toh keval saadhuon ke aasan ke dhul jhaad ne ke liye kaam aatein hain. kya pralaap kar rahe ho, woh kisi ke mastak pe mukut bhi ban saktaa hain. another mention of krishna, but no sign of him.
koolsadhu1000 thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
Karna told Krishna that if he owned the Pandava side of the kingdom he would in all probability give it to Duryodhan so this temptation was futile .
Vr15h thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
^^^ That was at that stage in their relationship. But had this happened b4 say, the marriage of Draupadi, Karna could still have been reconciled w/ the Pandavas. Or don't you think?

I added a new topic to discuss this what-if situation

lovesunshine thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
yes one thing led to other and everything ended into a war...

abt kunti...in her entire life where did she get any comfort and happiness? on the night of her wedding her husband decided that he is going off to war the next morning, then he came back married to another more beautiful woman... then they went into the jungle for samuhik honeymoon, then the curse of rishi kindam happened, then pandu gave up the kingship and left with her n madri for the jungles..

again pandu died leaving behind five kids to bring up in jungle.. then she was welcomed by bheeshma back in hastinapur but her sons were always facing insults and mortal danger from the hands of shakuni and the kauravas.

Then the laaksha griha incident, then pandavs n kunti again living and facing the hardships of jungle life...then her bahu's vastraharan and insult...and finally the war...

The almighty never gave kunti any peaceful life anyways..

As you sow so shall you reap..
Edited by lovesunshine - 11 years ago
Vr15h thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
^^^ Don't go by the serial. Pandu & Kunti were married some time, and then Bheeshma went to Shalya and sought Madri's hand for Pandu. He came back to Hastinapur w/ Madri, & Pandu married her, since Bheeshma asked.

After her bahu's vastraharan, she should not have remained in Hastinapur - that she did showed her lack of self-respect. She could easily have gone to the forest - after all, that's what she did along w/ Dhritarashtra & Gandhari some 30 years later. Or if the Pandavas were against taking her, then like Subhadra & her other bahus, she could have gone either to Kuntidesh or Dwarka - to her brother Vasudev, just like Subhadra went to Krishna or Karenamati went to Dhrishtaketu.

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