Jodha Akbar 9th April 2015..Sweet and Bitter...LONG analysis upd Pg-1 - Page 11

Great analysis Radhika😊.

Originally posted by: ndi.anggraeni81

yes it will torn jo apart but what she done for her husband is beyond enough, but what she's done for her son ?, even majority hate salim but still i want jodha to stand by salim now even if have to go againts jalal, she already enough saw her son suffer and being humilate in front of her eyes, jalal is a great king but he almost totally fail as a father, may be with jodha love and support the pain the anger the hatred in salim heart will cure, may be with this way salim can feel again mother's love that were missing in his life since his dad send his away at age 9, and may be too now salim will honour respect and love his mother like used to be

Yes. circumstances have always been against Salim, I still very much dislike Salim, all that he can think about is himself. But the guy has no chance of becoming better now if Jalal is going to continue treating him like this, so I think its high time Jodha steps in because there's no way that this boy can magically fix his attitude by himself, intervention from both his parents is necessary, but for now Jo should take the stand. :)

Originally posted by: -aady-

Yes. circumstances have always been against Salim, I still very much dislike Salim, all that he can think about is himself. But the guy has no chance of becoming better now if Jalal is going to continue treating him like this, so I think its high time Jodha steps in because there's no way that this boy can magically fix his attitude by himself, intervention from both his parents is necessary, but for now Jo should take the stand. :)

that if Jalal will let her take any stand... coz whenever she tried, Jalal always fought with her, and that gives Ruku full chance to instigate Jalal and salim against Jo...and Jaan begum means a lot for Jalal

but yes, this time i want Jo to go against Jalal and stand by her son... let Jalal go to Jaan begum... coz finally he has to come back to only Jo, as nobody can give him any peace that Jo can give... now it's time Jo uses her true powers as wife, Mallika and as a mother

Originally posted by: akdhaalways

I feel jodha should tie the two to two chairs and arrange a round table conference, where both salim n jalal will say their complains about each other, but only condition is that noone will shout or get angry or talk rudely, the two have to talk and make up calmly patiently, jodha should hold a scale in her hand,if any one of the two breaks the rule, will get a whip.Only then this

issue can solve now😆

Interesting discussion by both of you. Loved reading it.

Looking forward to more posts.

Originally posted by: sweet_diksha

that if Jalal will let her take any stand... coz whenever she tried, Jalal always fought with her, and that gives Ruku full chance to instigate Jalal and salim against Jo...and Jaan begum means a lot for Jalal

but yes, this time i want Jo to go against Jalal and stand by her son... let Jalal go to Jaan begum... coz finally he has to come back to only Jo, as nobody can give him any peace that Jo can give... now it's time Jo uses her true powers as wife, Mallika and as a mother

Jalal's mindset is very different from that of Jodha's. Jalal enterd the battlefield young, and trained by Bhiram Khan feels that experiences are the best teacher, that is why he even sent away Salim at such a young age. But not all people are the kind who look for the lesson in the worst of times, Salim being more on the emotional side just fueled his anger for JJ in his absence.

But now I feel Jalal should realize that his parenting methods are not going to work on Salim who tends to favor emotions and feelings over being righteous. I think its time he changes his parenting methods. And that is only possible if Jodha makes a move now. Ruks might use thisopprtunity to cause an MU between JJ, but in the end some how I think even Jalal will realize that in the end its his son he has to think about now. I hope Salim too realizes that Ruks is not that perfect ammijaan he always thought she is.

Originally posted by: -aady-

Jalal's mindset is very different from that of Jodha's. Jalal enterd the battlefield young, and trained by Bhiram Khan feels that experiences are the best teacher, that is why he even sent away Salim at such a young age. But not all people are the kind who look for the lesson in the worst of times, Salim being more on the emotional side just fueled his anger for JJ in his absence.

But now I feel Jalal should realize that his parenting methods are not going to work on Salim who tends to favor emotions and feelings over being righteous. I think its time he changes his parenting methods. And that is only possible if Jodha makes a move now. Ruks might use thisopprtunity to cause an MU between JJ, but in the end some how I think even Jalal will realize that in the end its his son he has to think about now. I hope Salim too realizes that Ruks is not that perfect ammijaan he always thought she is.

Actually jalal himself lacked a proper father figure in his life, his own father was hardly there with him, he was brought up by bairam khan who was very very strict and Mahamanga who was very calculative and political. Jalal though later went against bairam khan, he never said he disliked bairam khan's upbringing of him, before leap he told jodha that even he somrtimes felt angry towards bairam at childhood but when he grew up he understood it was for his benefit only that bairam was strict with him, and he knows salim will also understand. And thats where jalal went wrong, he felt his son is like him only, salim is his oldest son, granted after so many prayers, and Salim chisti told JALAL salim will be a great king like him,. so jalal from salim's childhood started making him more of a future emperor than a loving son, and here he felt he should do the things bairam did with him, be strict and firm, because jalal has always showed that he respects bairam a lot, and feels baira,m is the one to be credited for him being the empeor, he even said he loves and respects bairam more than his own father.Jalal felt with examinations after examinations takn, salim will come across as a strong individual.I think he never really thought there are other aspects of beinfg a father because he himslef never got to experience that, sometimes people who face a tough childhood, wants their sons to become extra hard so that if they face difficulty they will come untouched.And now ,the problem is that salim is utterly disrespectful, so when jalal goes to talk with him, salim says something horrible, jalal loses temper, and things get messed up more and more, jalal should learn to think like a father, something he maybe never got from bairam khan himself

Originally posted by: akdhaalways

Actually jalal himself lacked a proper father figure in his life, his own father was hardly there with him, he was brought up by bairam khan who was very very strict and Mahamanga who was very calculative and political. Jalal though later went against bairam khan, he never said he disliked bairam khan's upbringing of him, before leap he told jodha that even he somrtimes felt angry towards bairam at childhood but when he grew up he understood it was for his benefit only that bairam was strict with him, and he knows salim will also understand. And thats where jalal went wrong, he felt his son is like him only, salim is his oldest son, granted after so many prayers, and Salim chisti told JALAL salim will be a great king like him,. so jalal from salim's childhood started making him more of a future emperor than a loving son, and here he felt he should do the things bairam did with him, be strict and firm, because jalal has always showed that he respects bairam a lot, and feels baira,m is the one to be credited for him being the empeor, he even said he loves and respects bairam more than his own father.Jalal felt with examinations after examinations takn, salim will come across as a strong individual.I think he never really thought there are other aspects of beinfg a father because he himslef never got to experience that, sometimes people who face a tough childhood, wants their sons to become extra hard so that if they face difficulty they will come untouched.And now ,the problem is that salim is utterly disrespectful, so when jalal goes to talk with him, salim says something horrible, jalal loses temper, and things get messed up more and more, jalal should learn to think like a father, something he maybe never got from bairam khan himself

well said...

loving this discussion... hope to continue tonight also...

Originally posted by: -aady-

Jalal's mindset is very different from that of Jodha's. Jalal enterd the battlefield young, and trained by Bhiram Khan feels that experiences are the best teacher, that is why he even sent away Salim at such a young age. But not all people are the kind who look for the lesson in the worst of times, Salim being more on the emotional side just fueled his anger for JJ in his absence.

But now I feel Jalal should realize that his parenting methods are not going to work on Salim who tends to favor emotions and feelings over being righteous. I think its time he changes his parenting methods. And that is only possible if Jodha makes a move now. Ruks might use thisopprtunity to cause an MU between JJ, but in the end some how I think even Jalal will realize that in the end its his son he has to think about now. I hope Salim too realizes that Ruks is not that perfect ammijaan he always thought she is.

@blue: 😭😭 Its my wish, will we ever get to see this...

@all: It was a beautiful thread with lovely, very thoughtful discussions. Well thought and well written.Thank you all.

Abhay/Radhika - Thank you so so much for this thread, it gave all of us a chance to pour out. I loved reading everyone's views here.

Originally posted by: RadhikaS0

Abhay

Good Morning! Guess you already know the entire story by now and everyone else does too. So I will just restrict myself to my views on the episode.

All fluff really, so guys, don't expect any message in my post. 😛 I am not here to make a point but just to share my sweet thoughts with all of you. 😳

This is going to be a long one, so be prepared. 🥱

Murad and Salim in Rangshala

Abhay, the first scene was nothing worthwhile. Murad wanted to talk to Salim and Anar piped in. Murad who only takes her as a kaneez asked her to shut up which incensed Salim. 😆 And he gave a good one to Murad.

I know a lot of people here feel bad for Murad and think Salim was being his usual arrogant self. But I, for one, felt happy. Murad has been pulling a lot of rank as the Shah-i-Shah recently. He is developing "attitude". And he really needed that slap to show him that he is still just another guy under the crown.

Murad immediately seems to inform Akbar and make an issue of the Shah-i-Shah getting insulted in front of a kaneez. This seemed to me like 2 kids fighting each other and one of them complaining to daddy that "bhaiyya ne mujhe maara" (elder brother hit me).

Salim is a gone case, anyway. Now, Murad, you too? Grow up. You could have handled this between yourselves.

Be that as it may. The matter is in court now.

This is interesting.

Jodha and Jalal Before DEK Scene

Jodha tries to make Jalal understand this is a family matter and should be handled privately. But Jalal is suddenly the male version of Ruq in this track - obsessed with rank and respect to rank. ("Sangat ka asar" on Jalal? 😆 )

He says that it was not a fight between 2 brothers but between 2 princes, one of whom is the Shah-i-Shah and that Jodha should remember that SiS is No.2 in the empire and no one can mess with him.

Jalal, you are wrong.

1. The No. 2 is Jodha - MEH. You only gave her that RANK just a few days back, remember? And you told her on being questioned that she had the same ROLE as you.

So now don't try to walk over her by telling her to respect the SiS, who also happens to be her (step?) son.

Listen to her and then decide.

If you are the exclusive decision maker, then hey, let her be just another queen. Please do not fill her eyes with star dust by giving her titles and ranks and telling her on paper she has so much power and rights. When you will NEVER let her exercise those rights or power.

2. Suddenly you remember that you have to set an example before your awaam.

When the person involved is Salim, you never let go any chance to show the public what a just ruler you are, like Solomon.

But when Ruq is involved, then you are willing to turn a blind eye and sweep all her crimes under the carpet.

Even Mahamanga was given a private hearing and her crimes never came out in the open for the longest time.

Is Salim a worse offender than these 2 great women?

What happened to the Solomon in you then, Jalal?

No wonder, Salim feels victimized - that Jalal is always out to get him. Because he can clearly see that Jalal treats different people differently. He can send a 9 year old boy to a hutment as punishment but let a grown-up Ruq get off with a private scolding in the Murty kand, in the Ruq FP case and so many more cases.

Salim may not be right here but then Jalal is not right either - neither as a king nor as a father and not at all as a husband.

3. Jalal, if you feel that Salim will be the future king, don't estrange him or tarnish his image in public.

Take him under your wings and groom him to handle the hot seat when the time comes.

By all means, be firm with him, punish him, explain to him. Do anything, but privately. Not in public.

If the public starts thinking Salim is the black sheep of the family, will it ever accept him as the king in future?

Everyone is not born great. Some have to be made great. Take time and trouble to make Salim come to your level, rather than expecting him to know everything from birth.

God gives parents to teach kids. If kids knew everything, they would not need parents. Even Abhimanyu had incomplete knowledge.

My son must have been around 2+, when once I scolded him in my mother's house, in front of my mom and brother. He kept quiet. Later while we were going home, he told me very seriously that in future I could say anything to him but in private. That he had felt great shame in being scolded in front of "everyone". When a 2 year old felt embarrassed in being scolded in front of his grandmother and uncle, how will an 18 year old feel in being publicly pulled up and asked to apologize to his younger brother?

I am not justifying what Salim did. I am only saying Jalal messed it up big time. He forgot he was dealing with a prince who would also be king one day. And that he needed to handle him "differently". If gold were beaten in the same way as iron, what will happen? Iron becomes stronger but gold is destroyed. Jalal forgot this simple fact.

And consider, even today, in royal families and top celebrity families, a lot of drama happens that never comes into the open. Skeletons are kept firmly locked up in cupboards so that the family honor is not tarnished. And here we are talking of the First Family.

Akbar was so conscious of his image and honor that he didn't allow Salim to marry Anarkali (in fiction). Then would he allow a matter involving fistfights between his sons to be discussed openly?

3. Rank and Family

Jalal, you can expect ministers and the awaam to honor rank. But a family needs to be handled differently.

Jalal has to make his family realise that they are all in this together and they have to look at each other as relations and not like a bunch of royal officials living together.

There should be absolutely no pulling of rank within a family at any time.

The King may be at the top, being the head of the family. But if he encourages brothers to treat each other as per rank, he is encouraging sibling rivalry, which may ultimately lead to succession wars.

Frankly, IMO, treating each other as family is NOT a silly expectation. Jalal asks Jodha if she is talking to him like a wife or MEH. She says she will always be the wife to him.

Then why does he expect Salim to behave like a prince in front of an emperor and the SiS? Many viewers complained on the Salim thread that Salim calls his mother MUZ/MEH and not ammijaan. Well, now they perhaps know that it is Jalal's expectation that Salim should look at everyone as per their rank and respect them accordingly.

4. Not Giving Up on Relations

I am shocked by the casual way relations are treated in JA. I can fully understand why Salim feels alone and victimized. Because I have not seen anyone apart from Jodha trying to talk to him - not Ruq, or Salima or Hamida or Gulbadan Begum. Or even Murad and Danial. Qutub tried a few times and gave up.

It is my personal conviction that you NEVER GIVE UP on a family member, esp youngsters.

They may be stubborn, selfish, refuse to listen but that is why God made grown-ups, right? So that they can guide and mould the young ones.

True, you may reach some limits. So what? If you cannot take out ghee using a straight hand, bend your fingers. 😊

Jalal is so famous for being TE. Why doesn't he use tedapan to handle Salim?

Why does he always head for the collision course with Salim when he knows well that Salim can get easily recalcitrant?

When Salim told Jodha the other day that he didn't want to talk about the present issue, she left with a heavy heart. Why? In her place, I would have slapped him a few times, if needed, and made sure he talked to me. I don't let my son go till he has told me what i want to know, no matter how unwilling he may be to share. 😆

Jodha's Confusion

I have not touched upon the puja scene deliberately. (I feel this was Gangaur. This festival was celebrated in March end in Agra when I visited that place recently.) Doubtless, it was a beautiful scene. I enjoyed it thoroughly. JJ were colour coordinated and wearing rich, royal blue dresses. Both looked good together and showed the happy comfort of a long married and much in love couple, growing old together, performing the usual customs together.

The dialogues that followed were wonderful too. Jalal is able to convince Jodha not to raise the issue of their faiths or conversion ever again.

When Jodha is with Jalal, she agrees to everything he says, like a dutiful and loving wife. Then when she is alone, she again becomes the mother and feels she has to do something for her son even if Jalal does not agree.

Why so confused, lady? She can be a supportive wife, and yet make Jalal understand that Salim has to be "handled" without his realising that he is being "handled".

The reason why the joint fast cum puja of JJ held no significance for me is that this action is not an indication of love. It is only an outward symbol to show others you are happily married. Like a warring couple will put on plastic smiles at a party and then again resume the fight once they are back home.

The writer has no intention, it is obvious, of showing a proper mother-son relationship between Jodha and Salim. Right from kid Salim days, the relationship has been flawed and handled badly. Which is so pathetic when we consider how much Salim respected his mother.

Salim should have been shown close to his mother. And then Jodha could have been shown caught between a loving, misunderstood son and an idealistic husband for whom the empire comes first.

(There was an old movie Shakti in which Rakhi is caught between an idealistic police officer husband, Dilip Kumar, and a rebel but loving son, Amitabh Bachchan. EK should watch that movie to understand how well these same emotions were caught and expressed so well in that movie.)

As per the customs of those days, she could be shown being loyal to her husband and king in public, but concerned about her son too in private.

The Goody-Goody Act of Murad

Murad is said to be an extremely good guy, a loving brother and capable of being the Shah-i-Shah. Then why is he always throwing attitude in front of the already drowning-in-self-pity Salim?

Only the first time, Murad went to meet Salim as a brother, that too, a little late in the day.

After Salim rebuffed him that first time, Murad never really remained the brother. If he really was , he would have known that Salim was affected by the decision to make Murad the heir. And that Salim was not in his senses at that time.

He should have spoken to Salim again later, brother to brother. Can a little argument so quickly create such a gap between brothers who were allegedly quite close?

In that case, if Salim is wrong in dealing with Murad, Murad is no better.

True, he has tried discussing issues related to the empire with Salim many times, but he has never spoken to Salim like a brother/friend again.

The writers, it seems, are intent on showing Murad and Salim as political rivals, starting now.

The Loungers

There really is no other term for the others in the family who only seem to discuss the happenings in the family the way we discuss the episodes on IF. As if they had no personal stake in it.

Hamida and Salima did so much to mediate between Akbar and Salim in reality. But here we see them simply lying around in comfy seats and talking about the crisis wearing glum faces. 😕 Ladies, get up and do something. Talk to Jalal or Salim. Put on your thinking caps. But stop whining and sighing for that will achieve nothing.

Where Do We Go From Here?

Salim will just get more estranged from parents.

Murad will become politically ambitious and try to pull rank with Salim, which the latter will resent.

Murad and Salim will get estranged. Camps will form around them.

Jalal will side with Murad and that will further distance him from Salim.

Jalal and Jodha's relationship will be under strain, as they differ on how to handle Salim. (Let's see how the precap plays out. I don't expect a serious or long-term MU, but a temporary cooling off of relations between them.)

Ruq will be shown smirking away and self-talking all the while, laughing at Jodha's woes. Brace yourself for this. 🤢

This state of personal relations will likely continue till the end of the show. There may be temporary remissions but overall this tone will be dominant.

In the meantime, Anar will be discovered as the "corrupting" influence on Salim and sentenced to be walled. She will be bundled out of the country secretly.

Salim will be married to Man Bai by the end of the track.

Those of you who read till here without getting lost or getting a headache, you are really AWESOME. 🤗 Thanks so much!!! 😳

Thanks to you too, Abhay, for patiently letting me ramble nonsense! 😛

Aw soul sister absolutely brilliant! 👏 Perfect thoughts!

Which lead me to the writers 😡😡😡

Their way of developing this family dynamics should be separated from the politics and rankings completely it is sicken to the core. It makes me as a viewer questioned their experiences as a family member or parent.

Even if they all are not 'experienced parents' writing it should not be this bad at least they all belong to a family and grew up in one so they have to apply that in writing this story and make it meaningful.

We all accept that all Serial needs drama to spicy things up but the stories also must impact some form of knowledge and counsel to the public which is very lacking on their pact and rather exposing their own shallow brains in constructing these stories.