Weekend Analysis Thread 1:Jalal & His Discovery.. - Page 4

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skanda12 thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#31

Originally posted by: sashashyam

Dear Mansi,

I would like to return the compliment, and tell you that I was greatly taken with the freshness of many of the points you have made in your post, like the one about Jalal and Jodha being both one of a kind in their respective families, and the other about their eyes..

I do not like this black and white approach because it distorts a great figure and, to my mind, quite unnecessarily, I do not question the need to romanticise what was basically a political union, and go out on a limb about romantic love in that union, for without that there would be no film or TV serial. But there is no need to harp on this Jalal as jallad theme. They were all fierce and bloodthirsty warriors in those days, and Jalal was only far more successful than the rest.

I was asked another interesting question on my latest thread. Why is it that the commentator does not mention that Ruqaiya is Jalal's first cousin and thus already a Mughal princess? I mean to check that from what was said about Ruqaiya when she was introduced, but I have a feeling the question is accurate. Why is that so, then?

Did the curious parallel between Abdul/Jalal and Hoshiyar/Ruqaiya strike you? It is uncanny, the close similarity between the two relationships, though Jalal is much more emotionally attached to Abdul. But then Jalal is, as you have brought out, very emotional deep down. And loyal to relatiionships, and arrow straight.

Shyamala

Shyamala, I am still thinking about your points above, but there's one more point about Ruqqaiya's marriage with Jalal that strikes me. See I think it was not by chance that Jalal was married to his best friend Ruqqaiya at a young age and they grew into this marriage and deepened their friendship thereafter.
To me it sounds like another manipulative twist by this Mahamanga-Bairam Khan axis. How convenient that a young king (in whose stead these two manipulative devils are actually de facto ruling) should be made to marry early a girl with more brains than beauty, so that all bases are covered. Between them Mahamannga, Bairam Khan and Ruqqaiya have thus positioned themselves to rule his political decisions, his personal decisions and even his private decisions. They have put effective full stops on all sides to his need for genuine interactions with anyone.
It is very very interesting that when Jalal actually made that Amer trip, therefore he has in a way broken the vice-like grip of all three checkmaters. And it is also very interesting that he has only told them all about his ambitions to conquer Amer but he has held this Jodha factor close to his chest away from all three.
riyya6 thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#32
This is a wonderful thread 👏... N I loved all the points mentioned by all... I will try to contribute if tie permits, as usually weekends I'm kind away from the forum... Just a little time here during weekend and all my beloved ones complains that I spend less time with them 😆..

Someone mention abt how will the wedding take place, interesting... I think it has to go both ways Indian n muslim way...but I sincerely hope ekta don't drag the marriage... This kind of track boast trps 😳...

N I wanna see will jodha put forward her condition to marry jalal... In the movie there was 2 request... Here will it be 3 considering mayb jodha will add the' you can't touch me close'😆... N will jalal except or put check mate here that jodha can only choose two out of three mentioned...

N most important thing is how will their alliances take place, who will suggest...

Over the week I kind of liked the episodes...l it was not bored... But I still dun think ruqaiya acts like a queen. Sorry to say this even I feel jodha is not carrying herself like a Princess . I'm not trying to compare paridi with a rai but arai did carry herself pretty well as a queen ... Guys I'm not saying paridi is not good but there is always room for improvement..l having to say thi I love her in the show...😳

Rajat tokas that guy 👏... He grows on you... 👏

I hope the maham anga, bairam kan n ruqaiya track moves. Of course it's just beginning. They need to build up first.

N if possible I would like Etta not to focus much on the harem n ruqaiya... A little is ok but to much a big no from me... But I know interesting times ahead involving them in JA




Edited by riyya6 - 12 years ago
Super Kool thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#33
First weekend analysis thread...and, what a start...!!!

Jodha...a Rajput princess...she is amalgam of grace and grit...a well read, intelligent and courageous princess...a princess, who knows what is right or wrong...?? Remember, she was the only one who voiced her disappointment when sujamal was ousted by bhaar-mal...she despises Mughals...but, her hatred is not blind...she was the one who stopped Abdul's execution...her hatred couldn't compel her to set aside her beliefs and conviction...

Jalal...he is tough, complex but not heartless...he values his loyalists...an emperor risking his life is a testimony to this fact...I believe, that jalal himself doesn't know who he really is??? People around him never gave him an opportunity to explore various facets of his personality...strong barriers have been erected around him...making him inaccessible to everyone and leaving him lonely, very lonely...the ironical part is jalal is oblivious to his loneliness, yearning for love...

Jalal-ruqaiya...the lady is confident, clever and a favouraite of jalal...she had an advantage of knowing jalal since childhood...but, nobody can take away the fact that ruqaiya has earned her place...she understands jalal like nobody does...

In yesterday's episode there was a hint of overconfidence in ruqaiya...sometimes, surety can be dangerous...right know her control over jalal is unmatched (in harem)...but, it is gonna change...It will be exciting to watch how she will deal with it...????

Jalal-jodha relationship will be turbulent, enticing and emotinally charged...it has to be that way...jodha is in absolute contrast to several women in jalal's life...she will shake the foundations of the belief that jalal so dearly adheres to...jalal will eventually become Akbar, and the catalyst will be jodha...

P.S.- my post is based on how the characters are and will possibly be potrayed in the show...my knowledge of history is not upto the mark...Apologies for grammatical errors...




Edited by Super Kool - 12 years ago
jyoti06 thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#34

Originally posted by: LuvMishalRaheja

Excellent post !


Lovved reading it n agree with you in everything except 1-2 .

Well , I lovve seeing Jodha-Suryabhan scenes , not only they are perfectly shot n beautifully n serenely shown , but love really shines from Jodha n Suryabhan's eyes whenever they look at each-other...it's like a bewitching power , a magnetic pull...irresistible .

Now abuout Suryabhan n Jodha's love...what to say...I'm bewitched by the sheer beauty of them when they are together , day n night I'm humming their background song...the actor playing Suryabhan is one very handsome guy...tall n elegant...very rajput like .

I'll cry like anything when my Suryadha ( Suryabhan-Jodha ) will separate...😭...it's silly but somehow I wish I could see them getting married . Oh please history...change yourself ! ( 😆 )

Well , Paridhi is the best cast of this show n Jodha is the most beautiful n powerful , most adorable character . She's one fierce n intelligent rajputani with a heart of pure gold , plus she's extremely brave .

This is one exquisitely beautiful n strong chracter n Paridhi is doing complete justice to her role , she's playing Jodha with such ease n elan...grace comes naturally to her .

Mughal cast- only Ashwiniji can act...Smiley is struggling to portray her role I think , her expressions and body language seems very nervous n more than once it seemed that she has forgotten her lines .

I really , sincerely hope she starts getting under the skin of her character soon , for the sake of the show at least .

After Jodha the most likable characters of this show are Jodha's mother queen Mainavati , Sujamal ( I missed him very much this week ) n Suryabhan .





I do respect your POV on Jodha-Suryabhan pairing but I feel since the show is about Jodha and Akbar and trps hold lot of importance , so I think for the betterment of the show ,. its better CVs dont waste one whole episode on just Jodha and Suryabhan scenes when its obvious that eventually his character will fade out .. 😳

I dont mind seeing their scenes if CVs balance out both sides equally .. that will make sure that fans of both Jodha and Jalal feel happy after the episode and it reflects in trps as well .. 😳


About Ruqaiyya begum and her character which u mentioned in your other post , well as per my knowledge she was always the most beloved wife of Akbar and some books even say that Ruqaiyya brought up Shah jahan too once Akbar realised how he was unfair to her but then because Jodha and Akbar was first Hindu-Muslim alliance , so people imagined their love story as one of the epics which was not really the case ... But noone really knows the actual facts because even the history on Akbar's life has no proper evidence to it .. so its more or less assumptions by different people ...

In daily soaps especially with disclaimer put upfront that few things r made fictional here and we dont claim to show exact facts , I feel eventually Ruquaiya will turn negative so that Jodha and Akbar's story can move ahead because if they follow the actual history , then it wont really appeal to the mass viewers here ..

And knowing Ekta I m sure lots of facts will b twisted as per the demand of trps 😆...So while watching it , I m not really taking too much facts into account as long as CVs keep the screenplay and characterisation interesting and believable to some extent ...

In fact even the film made on JA has changed lots of facts but still found universal appeal since half of our viewers itself r not much aware of other facts ..all they know is Jodha and Akbar is a epic love story of a hindu and a muslim .. 😆😳
Edited by jyoti06 - 12 years ago
skanda12 thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#35
riyya6: Talking of the shaadi, I think there was one promo that showed Jalal on an elephant entering the gates of Amer in baaraat style. From that one shot I got the distinct feeling that Ekta is going to make merry with this shaadi for TRPs. So we had better anticipate at least 15-20 rasas of all kinds replete with song and dance!😕
Super Kool: I loved that point you made about Ruqqaiya's overconfidence. Maybe as you say that is both her strength and weakness. When Jodha arrives on the scene we have to see what shape this over-confidence takes. Does it make Ruqqaiya underestimate Jodha, or does this confidence get punctured by seeing Jodha is not only more beautiful but also has the brains to match!
Nothing is said about whether Ruqqaiya is educated or merely "street smart". Jalal is of corse uneducated. But Ruqqaiya could easily get deflated if she finds that Jodha's brains come from education and culture rather than from political acumen alone.
Interesting times ahead!
jyoti06 thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#36

Originally posted by: skanda12

1. The backgrounds of Jodha and Akbar seem to be a contrast to their own personalities

What I mean here is that the Rajputs seem to be a contrast to Jodha herself. And the Mughals seem a contrast to Jalal himself. Let me explain '

Let's take Jalal first. He is portryed in this serial as well as in history as a young but blood-thirsty war-minded boy-man, lusting for the cut-and thrust of vanquishing enemies, extending the frontiers of his kingdom and wanting to conquer anything and everything that takes his fancy. In all this he is also portrayed as a man without heart (and he himself is made to believe he has no heart). Yet if you look beyond this outward image of Jalal, you can see that there is not even a trace of manipulativeness in his personality. He is unashamedly ruthlessly straightforward. Now look at the coterie around him. There is a triumvirate of Mahamanga-Bairam Khan-Ruqqaiya, all of whom are at loggerheads with each other, but quite united in ensuring that Jalal is never given a taste of his own heart, he is separated from his real mother who can show him what real love is, he is ruled by manipulation that uses loyalty and guilt as weapons to control him, and he is always kept war-hungry and harem-hungry so that his heart does not wander and find true love that can change him (and thus change the fortunes of the coterie as well!). If you notice carefully, Jalal's family and extended family (the coterie) is exactly the opposite of what he is. He is straightforward and without a single bent bone in his body. They are all with hidden agendas and crooked as crooked can be.

Now let's take Jodha and her family. They are again a story of contrasts. Jodha is soft and polite but inwardly firece and fearless. She is able to summon up courage before events overrun her, and so she is ever ready to stand up in the cause of righteousness, fairplay, conviction, and strength of heart. She is portrayed in the serial and in history as one who knows what is right from wrong, one who is ever ready to take up just causes and one who is also ready to give her heart unreservedly to anyone she admires for their valour, honesty, sincerity and in justified need. Now look at her family. It is full of valourous-sounding kings and princes who are speaking high words like "yudh" and "Mughals ka sar kaatna" but just yesterday we saw how even before war is declared, they are all so full of defensive fear of war that they are practising their swordplay with feverish intent - which in itself seems to show a sense of outward bravado but inward feeling of unpreparedness. (The Mughals too are talking war but I did not see any of them moving a muscle to "practice"!) The contrast I see here is between Jodha's ever-readiness to "wage war against injustice" versus the Rajput youths "sense of lower self-esteem and under-preparedness for a real war of righteousness".

I don't know how many of you agree with me on this, but I feel as if both Jodha and Akbar are standing all alone amidst their clans because they are standing apart from their clans in values!



Mansi fab take 👏👏 .. Loved this point of yours the most since while writing my take I thought of the same but just could not put it in exact words but u did it 👏👏👏

I too feel that Jalal is really very soft at heart and even though he might come out looking like a man without emotions but we can see that he does hv his share of emotions for his own people .. for eg his sister or his men like Abdul ... but unfortunately he is too much under the influence of people like Mahamanga or Bairam khan who all hv their own selfish motives to fulfill

Whereas in Jodha's case , she has the courage to face all odds .. she also can keep a check on her emotions and b heartless at times when it comes to her kingdom's honour .. we saw it again in Abdul rescue mission saga itself .. but its her family which will eventually let her down by bowing down in front of Mughals

So yess that way both will eventually find themselves standing against all odds and will hv only each other to find some much needed solace 😳...
jyoti06 thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#37

Originally posted by: sashashyam

I detest this "Jodha will come along like an angel of light and convert this bloodthirsty, heartless warrior, Jalal, from a haviaan into an insaan" approach to the story.. It is not adapting history for a TV serial of a film, which is permissible. It amounts to standing history on its head, which should not be permissible, for it leaves the viewer with an unacceptably distorted perception, thanks to the reach and brainwashing ability of TV, of one of the greatest personalities in Indian history.


Now for Jodha. She, in sharp contrast to the haivaan Jalal, was introduced running a 400 metre dash to save a pigeon. The commentator went on to eulogise her as a prem aur daya ki murti. This same girl then goes to a Kali mandir, and worships the goddess (who is a very fierce fighter and destroyer, by the way!) , and then emerges after the attack on the temple (which I am sure Jalal never knew about) and takes violent oaths about getting Jalal's head. This is not described as being bloodthirsty, of course, for a guardian angel cannot, by definition, be anything but sweetness and light!😉

The fact is that Jodha is a princess from a warrior race, and she too has violence in her genes, whence her violent pronouncements. They might be tiresomely repetitive, but they are understandable given her birth and her background. But then why try to insist that she is a sort of 16th century Florence Nightingale?

If she had tried to precede Jhansi ki Rani by about 3 centuries, and ridden into battle against the Mughals, I would have understood it. But why talk of peace all the time? The Rajputs were generally busy fighting among themselves and it was their chronic disunity that allowed outsiders to make inroads into their land. Plus, though she excoriates Jalal for violating the frontiers of Amer, the Rajput kingdoms did this among themselves as a routine.

Then again, Jalal was born in a Rajput kingdom,Umarkot, and spent some years there and later in a Rajput kingdom in present day Madhya Pradesh. This gave him the familiarity with the Rajput psyche that enabled him, even early in his reign, to win them over and make them the pillars of his empire.

Here, however, he is shown thinking and talking of the Rajputs as if they were an alien race to which he is unremittingly hostile. This again is deliberate, meant to deepen the dark shades in Jalal's character, and to make out that Jodha's eventual contribution in taming and reforming such a supposedly harsh personality was that much greater.

This approach seems to me to be artificial and excessive, besides being historically incorrect. Akbar was naturally wise and had, very early on, a maturity far beyond his years, and there is no evidence that he needed any guardian angel. But as there is no copyright on Akbar, it is open house and anyone can depict him any way he/she wants!

I do understand that this is a reformist love story, so Jodha has to be shown too better Jalal, but there is a limit to everything, especially if one is dealing with a very great historical figure. It would in fact be far more appealing and convincing if they did not insist in its being black vs white.

I hope they tone this slant down as the show progresses, and show the constant emotional deprivation that Jalal suffered from all his life, as also the gentler side of him, as when he tends to the battered Abdul, so patiently and with so much care, or during his interactions Mahaam Anga. They have made a beginning this week, and it should be built on. That will enrich the characterisation, and make the show a much better watch for all of us.





Very interesting thoughts especially the ones I m quoting here 👏👏👏

Well if I look from a history POV , I agree Ekta and CVs hv gone far away from showing the history and is trying their best to make it look like some mills and boons kind of a show where Jalal is the angry young man who will b eventually tamed by the courageous princess Jodha 😆... First week did give me similar vibes ...

But I guess since then CVs hv made some positive improvements in second week by focussing more on Jalal's family members and also the Jodha-Suryabhan allaince which r all proper facts 👍🏼... I guess we can give some time to the CVs and mayb ask them to tone down few things so that it does not start looking like a typical mills and boons story ...

I will b more than happy if CVs show Jalal's emotional side too and how he too is longing for true love and affection ... Since its a daily soap , I guess CVs r taking it slowly and we might slowly see that soft side of Jalal too 😳
sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#38
Dear Jyoti,

I agree completely about Jodha and Suryabhan, but also for a different reason. Here, they are showing them meeting repeatedly and having semi-romantic encounters. If this is carried further, given the traditional mindset of many of the viewers in India, they will feel that Jodha usko apna pati man chuki hai, and they will then not accept a Jodha-Jalal love story at all, seeing it as a betrayal by her of her vows to Suryabhan. In fact, I was taken aback at the degree of closeness between them that they are showing already.

As for the historical material about Akbar's reign,. there are many contemporary, and later accounts, both by his subjects and by foreigners, but they focus on Akbar's political aspects and his rule as the Great Mughal, the reformer, the unifier and so on. They did not focus on his wives or the family., So, from our point of view, it can, happily, be both speculation and romanticisation!

Shyamala B.Cowsik

Originally posted by: jyoti06

I do respect your POV on Jodha-Suryabhan pairing but I feel since the show is about Jodha and Akbar and trps hold lot of importance , so I think for the betterment of the show ,. its better CVs dont waste one whole episode on just Jodha and Suryabhan scenes when its obvious that eventually his character will fade out .. 😳

I dont mind seeing their scenes if CVs balance out both sides equally .. that will make sure that fans of both Jodha and Jalal feel happy after the episode and it reflects in trps as well .. 😳


About Ruqaiyya begum and her character which u mentioned in your other post , well yes as per history she was always the most beloved wife of Akbar and some books even say that Ruqaiyya brought up Shah jahan too but then because Jodha and Akbar was first Hindu-Muslim alliance , so people imagined their love story as one of the epics which was not really the case ... But noone really knows the actual facts because even the history on Akbar's life has no proper evidence to it .. so its more or less assumptions by different people ...

In daily soaps especially with disclaimer put upfront that few things r made fictional here and we dont claim to show exact facts , I feel eventually Ruquaiya will turn negative so that Jodha and Akbar's story can move ahead because if they follow the actual history , then it wont really appeal to the mass viewers here ..

And knowing Ekta I m sure lots of facts will b twisted as per the demand of trps 😆...So while watching it , I m not really taking too much facts into account as long as CVs keep the screenplay and characterisation interesting and believable to some extent ...

In fact even the film made on JA has changed lots of facts but still found universal appeal since half of our viewers itself r not much aware of other facts ..all they know is Jodha and Akbar is a epic love story of a hindu and a muslim .. 😆😳

Originally posted by: LuvMishalRaheja

Excellent post !


Lovved reading it n agree with you in everything except 1-2 .

Well , I lovve seeing Jodha-Suryabhan scenes , not only they are perfectly shot n beautifully n serenely shown , but love really shines from Jodha n Suryabhan's eyes whenever they look at each-other...it's like a bewitching power , a magnetic pull...irresistible .

Now abuout Suryabhan n Jodha's love...what to say...I'm bewitched by the sheer beauty of them when they are together , day n night I'm humming their background song...the actor playing Suryabhan is one very handsome guy...tall n elegant...very rajput like .

I'll cry like anything when my Suryadha ( Suryabhan-Jodha ) will separate...😭...it's silly but somehow I wish I could see them getting married . Oh please history...change yourself ! ( 😆 )



Edited by sashashyam - 12 years ago

sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#39
Dear Jyoti,

If you can get thru to the CVs and persuade them to do this, I for one would be most grateful to you!'

Shyamala B.Cowsik

Originally posted by: jyoti06


Very interesting thoughts especially the ones I m quoting here 👏👏👏

Well if I look from a history POV , I agree Ekta and CVs hv gone far away from showing the history and is trying their best to make it look like some mills and boons kind of a show where Jalal is the angry young man who will b eventually tamed by the courageous princess Jodha 😆... First week did give me similar vibes ...

But I guess since then CVs hv made some positive improvements in second week by focussing more on Jalal's family members and also the Jodha-Suryabhan allaince which r all proper facts 👍🏼... I guess we can give some time to the CVs and mayb ask them to tone down few things so that it does not start looking like a typical mills and boons story ...

I will b more than happy if CVs show Jalal's emotional side too and how he too is longing for true love and affection ... Since its a daily soap , I guess CVs r taking it slowly and we might slowly see that soft side of Jalal too 😳



Originally posted by: sashashyam

I detest this "Jodha will come along like an angel of light and convert this bloodthirsty, heartless warrior, Jalal, from a haviaan into an insaan" approach to the story.. It is not adapting history for a TV serial of a film, which is permissible. It amounts to standing history on its head, which should not be permissible, for it leaves the viewer with an unacceptably distorted perception, thanks to the reach and brainwashing ability of TV, of one of the greatest personalities in Indian history.

Now for Jodha. She, in sharp contrast to the haivaan Jalal, was introduced running a 400 metre dash to save a pigeon. The commentator went on to eulogise her as a prem aur daya ki murti. This same girl then goes to a Kali mandir, and worships the goddess (who is a very fierce fighter and destroyer, by the way!) , and then emerges after the attack on the temple (which I am sure Jalal never knew about) and takes violent oaths about getting Jalal's head. This is not described as being bloodthirsty, of course, for a guardian angel cannot, by definition, be anything but sweetness and light!😉


The fact is that Jodha is a princess from a warrior race, and she too has violence in her genes, whence her violent pronouncements. They might be tiresomely repetitive, but they are understandable given her birth and her background. But then why try to insist that she is a sort of 16th century Florence Nightingale?

If she had tried to precede Jhansi ki Rani by about 3 centuries, and ridden into battle against the Mughals, I would have understood it. But why talk of peace all the time? The Rajputs were generally busy fighting among themselves and it was their chronic disunity that allowed outsiders to make inroads into their land. Plus, though she excoriates Jalal for violating the frontiers of Amer, the Rajput kingdoms did this among themselves as a routine.

Then again, Jalal was born in a Rajput kingdom,Umarkot, and spent some years there and later in a Rajput kingdom in present day Madhya Pradesh. This gave him the familiarity with the Rajput psyche that enabled him, even early in his reign, to win them over and make them the pillars of his empire.

Here, however, he is shown thinking and talking of the Rajputs as if they were an alien race to which he is unremittingly hostile. This again is deliberate, meant to deepen the dark shades in Jalal's character, and to make out that Jodha's eventual contribution in taming and reforming such a supposedly harsh personality was that much greater.

This approach seems to me to be artificial and excessive, besides being historically incorrect. Akbar was naturally wise and had, very early on, a maturity far beyond his years, and there is no evidence that he needed any guardian angel. But as there is no copyright on Akbar, it is open house and anyone can depict him any way he/she wants!

I do understand that this is a reformist love story, so Jodha has to be shown too better Jalal, but there is a limit to everything, especially if one is dealing with a very great historical figure. It would in fact be far more appealing and convincing if they did not insist in its being black vs white.

I hope they tone this slant down as the show progresses, and show the constant emotional deprivation that Jalal suffered from all his life, as also the gentler side of him, as when he tends to the battered Abdul, so patiently and with so much care, or during his interactions Mahaam Anga. They have made a beginning this week, and it should be built on. That will enrich the characterisation, and make the show a much better watch for all of us.





jyoti06 thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#40
@Shyamala : Its a pleasure reading your posts 👏👏 .. yess I was a bit taken aback too looking at Surya-Jodha closeness especially the whole boat ride .. I m not sure if during those days girls were so free to go on such boat rides with their fiances before marriage 😕 ... Well again cinematic liberty 😆 ... Even if Jodha already considers Suryabhan as her husband but still CVs can avoid these physical proximities between both since they need to remember the era when this story is being told ..


@All : I m reading all the takes here and want to thank everyone from the bottom of my heart for penning down such interesting thoughts in this thread 🤗... Lovely takes by all and each and every post is making some interesting points 👍🏼.. I m sure if CVs read this , they will definitely b more than happy to take the feedbacks and implement it 😃...

About which marriage will b followed .. I guess it will b both Hindu as well as Muslim since Jodha is a head strong lady and will definitely put this as one of the conditions before Jalal before marriage 🤔...

I really want to see Ruqaiyya and Maha manga's reaction now once Jalal tells about his plan to marry Jodha 😛😆 ...



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