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ShivangBuch thumbnail
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Posted: 13 years ago
#91
Vrish

Yes. Examples, as I said, I gave were deliberately simple so that tough ones are left for the actual game.😆 At the moment though I haven't thought about any tough either honestly 😆 but I have a feeling that tougher can also be framed if one is smart enough and rules are flexible enough to alter the number of options to be given from 3-4 to 7-8 may be as per the choice of the person framing. Who knows a question may be tougher with more options. Or the other way round. And as I said, inclusion of geographical knowledge of map of Ramayan-Mahabharat times with names of places, rivers, mountains, pilgrimages may also add variety and wider range to the game. Weapons also.

Tougher example of the question can be related to sources. Someone who is far more knowledgeable about mythological sources should have advantage in the game. For example, you can mention in the list 5 events of Ramayan out of which one is Lakshman rekha or of Tarinisen, which is only found in Krittivas Ramayan whereas others are all found in Valmiki Ramayan. Such question may be a tough one. One may give options of different Krishna leelas among which all but one have some common concept or message (but it should be logically convincing to mass to be common).

One clarification. In one question I gave as example, Hidimb is also possible answer apart from Karna. Dushasan, Duryodhan, Karna, Keechak were all humans and normal warriors and Hidimb was rakshas. It should be upto the person asking the question to make sure he doesn't leave chances of multiple possible answers and the person giving the answer either Karna or Hidimb should be given the point as long as the common characteristic between 4 of them given as logic by him/her along with the answer is of some real substance and convincing in general to majority to be so. In such case, I should have better put Vikarna as option instead of Hidimb. Alternatively, to make the solving tougher, the rule could also be made like our current character game that exact answer in the mind of the person framing the question with exactly the same reasoning should be cracked.

Regarding linking Vashisth with Sudama, I would like to ask your clarification whether relation of Guru-Shishya won't do? If it will do, then here is my attempt:

Vashishth ===> Ram's teacher
Ram ===> Vishnu's incarnation
Vishnu ===> Krishna (another incarnation of Vishnu)
Krishna ===> Sandipani's shishya
Sandipani ===> Sudama's teacher

5 links.


And that completing the sequence idea coincided in our mind. Today morning, I also thought the same with the example of Raghu dynasty and chronology and succession taking my Atri's example of fill in the blanks and Vishnu avtar's example as base. But I didn't include it today by further editing my post thinking that it would only have the limited range of dynasties. It would just be restricted to dynasties. But like you have given the example of marriages, any similar events like this can be arranged chronologically and sequence can be finished. Your trick in your example of skipping one generation in between was added dimension to it btw to my thought. That was brilliant. And also yours idea include both interpolation and extrapolation. My similar idea today morning was just of extrapolation. Extending the series further.



Lola

Yes. The odd one out is likely to be simple to participate for many but less challenging. That trade off and opposite pros and cons are always going to be there. If you create poll, my vote will go to Vrish's idea (even if I am allowed to vote my own at all.😆)
Edited by ShivangBuch - 13 years ago
Vr15h thumbnail
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Posted: 13 years ago
#92
Shivang

Friend-enemy, Guru-shishya, king-subject, Guru-bhaiyas, etc and other such non-familial ties won't do, otherwise anything can be connected to anything. I left it b/w families, avatars and allowed remarkably long extensions. The idea being to explore the degrees of separation of relationships.

E.g.

Vishnu-Shiva

Vishnu's wife = Lakshmi
Lakshmi's mother = Khyatti
Khyatti's sister = Sati
Sati's husband = Shiva

In short, Shiva is Vishnu's uncle here. Of course, if you take Vishnu = Mohini, Shiva is Vishnu's hubby dear 😆 So lets say somebody uses the above link of 4, and someone else uses Mohini to make it 2 degrees of separation, the latter wins.

I like the idea of names of places and non personal items. Actually, in the current Game thread going on, Vibs had on a couple of occasion posted weapons - in one, she had the Koumadaki - Vishnu's gada - in mind. Essentially, that almost amounts to a name, place, animal, thing, but I'm not sure that that's all that challenging.

Let Lola decide how she wants the next contest to be. Maybe give it a year or 2 b4 retiring it, instead of calling it Game of the Week 😆
ShivangBuch thumbnail
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Posted: 13 years ago
#93
Lol. Yes. Let's wait and see. Yeah, weapons also might not be very challenging but it will just add variety and dimension to be more appropriate. On the contrary, names of persons having a particular divyastra in possession would be a tougher common feature to guess rather than names of weapons themselves.

Yes. Got the point about Guru-Shishya. I understood friends-enemy point as it can link anything to anything and there is no subjective criteria of degree or extent or nature or informality of friendship or reason of enmity. But I confirmed it in case of Guru-Shishya because it if formal relation and also can be objectively established. For example, Vashishth, Vishwamitra and Agatsya (?) can be called Ram's guru with some common objective criteria understood but Bharadwaj, Atri, Sharbhang, Sutikshna can't be called Ram's guru. Dron and Krip can be objectively said to be Pandavas Gurus (and all shisyas between them may be some friends and some enemies but this common relation is objective) but not Vyas. Sandipani can be called Krishna's guru but not Garg (he was Kulguru and guru of Vasudev not Krishna). Bhishma and Karna may not be friends but they had common Guru Parshuram and common master Dhritrashtra that is not as subjective to decide as Friendship. But your answer has now cleared the point.

How dear beloved or lover can be familial relationship? Husband fine. Will relation of Radha Krishna count (Of course if one go by Brahma Vaivarta Puran where Radha-Krishna marriage is mentioned as described by Semanti in Janaki's SK diary thread, then it's fine but otherwise?)? Golok Radha Krishna fine as consorts but human Radha Krishna? Krishna-Lalita? Krishna was their husband as per Gauri's boon while Maharasleela. Each Gopi individually.
Edited by ShivangBuch - 13 years ago
Vr15h thumbnail
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Posted: 13 years ago
#94
Responses in violet

Originally posted by: ShivangBuch

Lol. Yes. Let's wait and see. Yeah, weapons also might not be very challenging but it will just add variety and dimension to be more appropriate. On the contrary, names of persons having a particular divyastra in possession would be a tougher common feature to guess rather than names of weapons themselves.


Yes. Got the point about Guru-Shishya. I understood friends-enemy point as it can link anything to anything and there is no subjective criteria of degree or extent or nature or informality of friendship or reason of enmity. But I confirmed it in case of Guru-Shishya because it if formal relation and also can be objectively established. For example, Vashishth, Vishwamitra and Agatsya (?) can be called Ram's guru with some common objective criteria understood but Bharadwaj, Atri, Sharbhang, Sutikshna can't be called Ram's guru. Dron and Krip can be objectively said to be Pandavas Gurus (and all shisyas between them may be some friends and some enemies but this common relation is objective) but not Vyas. Sandipani can be called Krishna's guru but not Garg (he was Kulguru and guru of Vasudev not Krishna). Bhishma and Karna may not be friends but they had common Guru Parshuram and common master Dhritrashtra that is not as subjective to decide as Friendship. But your answer has now cleared the point.

In the case of Vyasa, he is related, since he is the biological father of Dhritarashtra & Pandu. So he won't be guru, but he happens to be even closer 😆 You are right - it becomes pretty fuzzy, if not subjective as to who can be called Rama's guru & who can't. Also, Atri wasn't Rama's guru, but wasn't Anusuya Sita's guru? And in which case, what would then be the relationship b/w Rama & Atri?

Bheeshma & Karna? Let's see:

Bheeshma's father = Santanu
Santanu's grandson = Pandu
Pandu's wife = Kunti
Kunti's son = Karna

I'm split on whether to allow biological children to belong to their parents once adopted out. Would Karna be the son of Radha or Kunti? Would Shanta be the daughter of Lomapada or Dasharath? Would Kunti be the daughter of Kuntibhoj or Shura?

As far as the Pandavas & Kauravas went, they were already cousins, so there'd be no need to connect Bhima & Duryodhan thru Dronacharya or Balarama.

How dear beloved or lover can be familial relationship? Husband fine. Will relation of Radha Krishna count (Of course if one go by Brahma Vaivarta Puran where Radha-Krishna marriage is mentioned as described by Semanti in Janaki's SK diary thread, then it's fine but otherwise?)? Golok Radha Krishna fine as consorts but human Radha Krishna? Krishna-Lalita? Krishna was their husband as per Gauri's boon while Maharasleela. Each Gopi individually.

Krishna & Radha, or Krishna & other gopis do not count as a familial relationship. But Shiva & Mohini is different. They had a son Ayappa, so if one doesn't want to look @ Mohini as Mahadeva's wife, one can make it one degree of separation - Shiva's son = Ayappa, and Ayappa's mother = Mohini. Obviously, this does not apply to Krishna & Radha.

Yeah, this would be a fun thing to quarrel upon, like umpiring decisions 😈 - have people forcibly insert a degree of separation in someone else's answer in order to win. In other words, the first answer doesn't necessarily prevail if one can either show that it violates rules, by using guru-shishya, or if it takes disallowed shortcuts and shaves off degrees of separation. 😆

ShivangBuch thumbnail
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Posted: 13 years ago
#95

Originally posted by: .Vrish.

Responses in violet
Mine red again.

In the case of Vyasa, he is related, since he is the biological father of Dhritarashtra & Pandu. So he won't be guru, but he happens to be even closer 😆
Yeah that's right. For the purpose of answering the question, that's fine. I was just giving it as an example. He is otherwise related to Pandavas anyhow but I was just asking/telling whether he can be called Guru or not just to use it as example to explain my point since no other sage came to mind who may be closely related to Pandavas.

You are right - it becomes pretty fuzzy, if not subjective as to who can be called Rama's guru & who can't. Also, Atri wasn't Rama's guru, but wasn't Anusuya Sita's guru? And in which case, what would then be the relationship b/w Rama & Atri?
Yes. Exactly. Once we decide the criteria as to the bare minimum requirement to be called as Guru, then only it becomes objective but deciding the criteria is very tough itself.


Bheeshma & Karna? Let's see:

Bheeshma's father = Santanu
Santanu's grandson = Pandu
Pandu's wife = Kunti
Kunti's son = Karna
Again that same point. Bhishma and Karna can be related other way also. I was just checking the possibility through the route of Guru or Master only. But that's fine. Yes. 4 links.


I'm split on whether to allow biological children to belong to their parents once adopted out. Would Karna be the son of Radha or Kunti? Would Shanta be the daughter of Lomapada or Dasharath? Would Kunti be the daughter of Kuntibhoj or Shura?
That's a good point. I think both can be allowed as a flexibility. But Kuntibhoj and Shura can't be related. Kunti can be directly related with either of them as per the necessity of shortest route.

As far as the Pandavas & Kauravas went, they were already cousins, so there'd be no need to connect Bhima & Duryodhan thru Dronacharya or Balarama.
Again same point. Just example it was. Take it for example in case of Nishadraj and Ram. Not as friends but Gurubhai. That point is clear though. We are not keeping that relationship.


Krishna & Radha, or Krishna & other gopis do not count as a familial relationship. But Shiva & Mohini is different. They had a son Ayappa, so if one doesn't want to look @ Mohini as Mahadeva's wife, one can make it one degree of separation - Shiva's son = Ayappa, and Ayappa's mother = Mohini. Obviously, this does not apply to Krishna & Radha.
Okk. But I think some people might argue to include them (or at least Radha if not other Gopis) with the argument of Brahma Vaivarta Puran and Golok consort and Gauri's boon specific for the Rasleela event. That thing will have to be clarified either way in the first post.


Yeah, this would be a fun thing to quarrel upon, like umpiring decisions 😈 - have people forcibly insert a degree of separation in someone else's answer in order to win. In other words, the first answer doesn't necessarily prevail if one can either show that it violates rules, by using guru-shishya, or if it takes disallowed shortcuts and shaves off degrees of separation. 😆
Ha ha ha. DRS. Referral system debate.🤣 Thanks for clarifying so much. I had understood everything already though but by giving double possibility example to confirm my point, I unnecessary troubled and made you clarifying too much.

Edited by ShivangBuch - 13 years ago
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Posted: 13 years ago
#96

I'm split on whether to allow biological children to belong to their parents once adopted out. Would Karna be the son of Radha or Kunti? Would Shanta be the daughter of Lomapada or Dasharath? Would Kunti be the daughter of Kuntibhoj or Shura?
That's a good point. I think both can be allowed as a flexibility. But Kuntibhoj and Shura can't be related. Kunti can be directly related with either of them as per the necessity of shortest route.


Thanks for pointing that out - one can't establish a relationship b/w Kuntibhoj & Shura, or Dasharath & Lomapada. If somebody makes Kunti related to Radha, Arjun will have a conniption fit 🤣

But yeah, we'll allow both birth and adoptive parents, but that cannot be used to connect 2 unrelated people, such as the above. On a related note, using the same rule, Karna's brothers thru Radha cannot be connected to the Pandavas. His sons, however, can, since he doesn't need Radha to claim a link to them.

And yeah, you were right about the examples. Just that w/ them, there were alternatives to what was original. Anyway, final point, guru-shishya relationships cannot be used here, as agreed earlier.

On your last point, yeah, we could have Lola as the third ump or referee, and adjudicate the exact #degrees of separation 😈🤣
ShivangBuch thumbnail
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Posted: 13 years ago
#97
Lol. Very very smart and honest third umpire.😊

Yes definitely. No Guru-Shishya. No master-servant. That's clear.

And our Kuntiwala point also clarifies I guess that Krishna can be related with Nand-Yashoda equally like with Vasudev-Devaki. But the former couple can't be connected with latter couple.
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Posted: 13 years ago
#98
Actually, I don't think Nand-Yashoda can be linked via Krishna w/ anybody. For instance, one couldn't link Bhima w/ Nand, since for Bhima to be related to Krishna, he'd have to go thru Kunti and Vasudev. The only people Krishna can be connected w/ on Nand's side is Nand's own relatives.

Another question - does the daughter, who Vasudev brought in to substitute Krishna, and who flew out of Kansa's hand - qualify as Vasudev/Devaki's daughter?
ShivangBuch thumbnail
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Posted: 13 years ago
#99
Yes. Nand's own relatives only. Like his elder brother Upanand shown in SK. But he is the only known relative and if people give his name in question, first link will be Nand and second link will be Krishna that is clear straight forward. So that is not going to come right.

And so far as your other point is concerned, I think yes. Logically she should also be counted as daughter of both parents since technically, VD only handed over (or Kans snatched from them) her to Kans as their own child like all previous children (so had she lived, she would have been brought up by them and the fact that they were helpless and couldn't save her life was still their responsibility technically) and that Yogmaya aakaashvani apart, that child was believed to be possibly or apparently (by non-believers say) their child only.
Edited by ShivangBuch - 13 years ago
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Posted: 13 years ago

No. No such relation was ever established.

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