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Shivang

@ShivangBuch

Voyager

Posted: 13 years ago

#101

Originally posted by: varaali

Well people having faith and fear may not have believed her to be their actual daughter. So real parents relation may never have established. But the way Vasudev brought her with him (even if in hypnotized state and unaware), she can technically and logically be regarded to be their adopted child. IMO she has to be regarded as such if we are considering it in the case of the baby who was exchanged for her.

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varaali

@varaali

Dazzler

+ 2

Posted: 13 years ago

#102

I think Guru-Shishya relationship should be allowed- where there is evidence of the shishya having recd diksha from Guru. Vashishtha for RLBS, Vishwamitra for R&L alone. Atri, Sharabhanga even Agastya do not count as gurus. Sandipani for Krishna, Balarama but as Shivang mentioned, not Garagacharya. Drona and Kripa for the Pandavas & Kauravas . Kulgurus cannot be taken into account.

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Vrish

@Vr15h

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 13 years ago

#103

Problem is that there is a fuzzy line dividing Gurus & Kulgurus - Vashistha was both, whereas Drona was the former and Kripa the latter. In case of families, we've allowed everything except connecting step-families and families. Similarly, disallowing Guru-Shishya narrows the field a bit, and makes it slightly more difficult for both a question setter, as well as one attempting the question.

Also, parents, brothers, sisters, wives, husbands et al are open & shut cases - either X was Y's wife, or she wasn't. But w/ gurus, one can easily get into more nebulous arguments as to whether Z qualifies as a guru of Y, or not. Which is another reason why Guru-Shishya should not be included.

Edited by .Vrish. - 13 years ago

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Shivang

@ShivangBuch

Voyager

Posted: 13 years ago

#104

Digging further in the discussion point of mine of Odd one out for further clarifications required to be decided:

Duryodhan, Dushasan, Vikarna, Suryaputra Karna (not one of the Kauravas), Kichak

Now this question I put up as an example can have at least three different answers identified by me:

Vikarna: Not involved in the insult of Draupadi but all other 4 were though Kichak in a different event

Karna: Killed by Arjun but all other 4 were killed by Bhim

Kichak: Not present in Dhyutsabha bhavan but others were, died before Kurukshetra/didn't participate in Kurukshetra but others did

Now in such scenario, either the rule should be that person framing the question will judge which answer he expected or which logic or common feature is the strongest group or criteria (Even if the person framing the question had 3rd answer in mind, he may still declare 2nd answer to be his answer if he feels that is better logic); or the rule could be that all the above answers are equally correct so winner will be on first come basis and it is the mistake of person giving the question to set such loose question with high probability of correct answer due to multiple possible answers.

I think, person setting the question only should be the judge and only he should certify and has every right to wait until the best answer or his answer doesn't come (whichever is earlier as per his subjective choice). Otherwise all will set the questions with minimum number of options possible only. If minimum limit is let's say 4, all will give 4 options only if multiple answers are allowed. Nobody can be that fool to make one's question easier and with greater chance of prompt answer. If question setter is given the liberty of being the final judge, then only he/she will be dynamic to include as many options as possible in the question upto the maximum limit of the rules.

Edited by ShivangBuch - 13 years ago

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Vrish

@Vr15h

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 13 years ago

#105

I'd suggest this - put the onus on the person setting the question to ensure that there are no 2 answers possible for such scenarios. For instance, your above example would be one where the question won't be valid, due to the multiplicity of responses. That seems fairer than expecting people to guess what others are thinking about, since none of us (to the best of my knowledge) have divyadhristi 😆

The other thing I'd suggest is define degrees of separation points, if you will. Things like birth parents, birth children, spouses, would have a degree of separation of 1, first cousins would have degrees of separations of 2, second cousins 3, and so on. Also, if one is going from paternal cousin of X to maternal cousin of Y, the the degrees of separation add up. For instance, Balarama & Bhima would have a degree of separation of 2, but for Balarama & Duryodhan, he'd have to go though Bhima (2) and then Duryodhan, which would put him 4 points away from him. Krishna would however be separated from Duryodhan by 3 points - Krishna to Samba (1), Samba to Lakshmanaa (2) and Lakshmanaa to Duryodhan (3). Oh, and avatars would have a degree of separation of zero - you don't lose points going from Vamana to Parashurama, or Sita to Rukmini.

Edited by .Vrish. - 13 years ago

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Shivang

@ShivangBuch

Voyager

Posted: 13 years ago

#106

Agreed to your point of fairness. But then nobody will dare to set questions with more options. Often we can't think of some surprisingly common feature with some other 4 like in the above example. There can be many unknown ways to select different persons as odd ones. Different participants' brain can work on different tracks. Question setter can't think so much on each and every dimensions on all different paths. In that case, it will become more and more difficult for question setter and even easier for solver. Even in our current character game thread too, even if all the clues match correctly, correct answer is only considered of that person who gives exactly the same answer for which 3 clues were designed.

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Shivang

@ShivangBuch

Voyager

Posted: 13 years ago

#107

Moreover, if the question setter thinks that one answer out of some is much better/more substantial or powerful than his own thought answer and its reasoning, then he can always honestly give that answer correct as per his wish and state of happiness and satisfaction. He will also be the final authority and nobody will argue against his ranking of quality of reasoning and criteria and even he doesn't need to disclose while declaring the correct answer what his actually thought answer was. He may or may not disclose his answer to avoid any feeling of unfairness in the minds of different people giving different answers once he declares a particular answer to be correct (others are bound to assume that it must actually be his thought answer and not preferred answer). And I think all our forum members are very honest and fair enough and there is no chance of any case of friendship.😆

Edited by ShivangBuch - 13 years ago

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MagadhSundari

@MagadhSundari

Sparkler

+ 4

Posted: 13 years ago

#108

Sorry guys, am out of town and online from my phone so can't read through all of the intricacies of the rules you've been working on just yet. I do know that I'd prefer to keep both games in separate threads rather than lumping them together so we can switch off between making one or the other sticky whenever we are temporarily bored of what's up there. So, I already asked Vrish to create the game from his idea which I'll make sticky first, and Shivang bhaiya, you can create odd man out as well. Or I'll do it when I get home. Same thing ;)

I just want to suggest that we not impose as many restrictions as have been discussed from the outset or people might be intimidated to post at all 😆 we can mention that only verifiable objective relationships are permissible, and during the course of the game if someone approaches a grey zone by, for instance, calling one of the Aranya Kand sages Shri Ram's guru, we can call it a foul and allow the same person to name a different pair. That sound ok?

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Vrish

@Vr15h

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 13 years ago

#109

Triple Nelson post - 111!

Okay, after discussing w/ Shivang on PM, we've agreed on the following for the new 'Games of the Yuga: SOC' thread:

Have all 3 games below in a single thread - which is @ slight variance w/ Lola's suggestion above

Reason for it - one of the games may seem complicated for some people, and if the person gets an answer correct, s/he's @ liberty to set the next question from any of the 3 games, instead of being locked into the same game. The person who gets a right answer also gets to play her fav game from the following 3.
The 3 games are

String the sequence
Odd one out
Connect the Characters

The Rules of each of the games, along w/ illustrations, will be laid out by Shivang or me - whoever starts the thread, and set the first question from any of the games
Connect the Characters will always have 2 people/gods/demons or even animals if one wishes, but no vehicles, weapons, or other accessories since the last can't have familial relationships
The other 2 games will always have 4 or more characters in them, not 2, since it's impossible to play them w/ 2, and 3 or even 4 is ridiculously easy.
The other two games however can include vehicles, weapons or other accessories (Shivang, please correct me if that ain't the case)
The person who provides the best answer in case of game 3 (keep reading) gets to pick the next game, and ask a question based on the rules of the game.

Connect the Characters

You are given 2 characters (the question setter has to verify that the characters actually can be connected as per the various relationships laid out in the legend)
For each connecting character that is used and the relationship, a number of points are incurred
Keep connecting them until the final character is reached, adding all the points all the way
The final #pts is a score by which you've connected the 2.
Note that that doesn't necessarily complete the game. If another contestant using different paths can connect 2 characters w/ less points, she wins
That person gets to set the next question.
Only family relationships count - no King-subject, 2 friends, guru-shishya, 2 lovers, or any non-familial relationships are valid. We're trying to establish family relationships here, no 'king is the father of subjects' or 'guru is equivalent to parent' arguments.

Here is the legend table of the relationships agreed on, and the points they incur

1 (Oneself or Direct family)

One's Incarnation
The Origin (Form of God or deity) of which one is the incarnation
Parents/children/siblings with both same parents
Spouses
The other incarnation of same original deity
Rebirth (for ordinary humans other than incarnations of God)
Ascendants upto any limit (Grandfather, Great Grandfather and so on)
Descendants upto any limit (Grandson, Great Grandson and so on)

2 (Relatives of direct family)

Step parents (spouse of birth father or mother)
Uncle (Only Chacha and Mama - brother of father or brother of mother)
Aunt (Only Bua/Fufi and Mausi - sister of father or sister of mother)
Nephew/Niece (Only children of brother or sister)
Half-siblings (one parent has to be common)
Parents-in-law
Sons-in-law & Daughters-in-law
Devar/Jeth/Nanand/Saala/Saali/Behenoi (Jija)/Bhabhi (Brother in Laws and Sister in Laws)

3 (Relatives of indirect family)

Cousins (Children of Chacha or Mama or Bua or Mausi)
Step-siblings (neither parent is common, just that one's father is married to another's mother)
Uncle (Only Fufa and Mausa - brother in law of father or brother in law of mother)
Aunt (Only Chachi and Mami - sister in law of father or sister in law of mother)
Nephew/Niece (Only children of brother in law or sister in law)
Nephew's/Niece's children or descendants or ascendants (of different lineage) and spouse (Nephew or Niece of previous category not the above point)
Jethani/Devrani
Samdhi-Samdhan (relationship b/w the parents of both spouses in a marriage)
Unrelated men whose wives are sisters. e.g. Shiva & Kashyap, whose wives were Sati & Aditi (Saadhubhai - Saali ka pati) and similarly Saale ke patni and similarly Nandoi (Nanand ka pati)

4 (Relatives of relatives of indirect family)

Nephew's/Niece's children or descendants or ascendants (of different lineage) and spouse (Nephew or Niece of previous category not of previous to previous)
Lineages of the people in last two points of previous category (Jethani/Devrani/Saadhu/Nanandoi etc)

5 (Any further relations)

Second cousins without any step-parents in b/w

So to play the game, here is how it's done. Take an example:

Connect Jambavati w/ Gandhari

Let's say contestant A does the following

Jambavati's husband - Krishna (1 pt)

Krishna's 2nd cousin - Duryodhan (5 pts)

Duryodhan's mother - Gandhari (1 pt)

So this contestant A gathers 7 pts in defining them

Let's say another contestant B does the following

Jambavati's daughter-in-law - Lakshmanaa (2 pts)

Lakshmanaa's grandmother - Gandhari (1 pt)

So this contestant B gathers 3 pts on the same 2 characters.

As in golf, lower numbers are better, so on that basis, B wins the game and gets to ask the next question. If B decides not to ask, A gets to ask the next question and if A doesn't, it's open to the field. Similarly, if there were more contestants to the above question, the one who connected the 2 w/ the lowest number of points would win.

As noted above, b4 setting the question, the questioner has to note that the 2 characters can actually be connected, b4 going about it. Like don't ask to connect Sudama w/ Paundrak Vasudeva 😆

Essentially, connect 2 characters via familial relationships. Here, all sorts of family links are allowed, including divine links (Bhima being a son of Vayu, as well as Pandu). However, note that 2 people who have the same relationship w/ a character cannot be connected via that character. Like Pandu cannot be connected to Vayu, Adhirath cannot be connected to Kunti, Vasudev cannot be connected to Yashoda, and so on.

Hopefully, the rules of this game are simple enough, despite the elaborate description above - and if they ain't, participants can always play one of the other 2 games below, which can be made just as challenging.

Also, if the person attempting the question connects w/ more points than what the question setter had in mind, wait 12 hrs for a better answer. If the person matches the #points that the questioner had set, give 6 hrs for a better answer. If the person actually provides a better answer than even the questioner had thought of, declare that person the winner right away, and continue w/ the game. The reference time above is the time when the answer was submitted. If the questioner happens to see it after 12 hrs, she can declare that person the winner right away. The idea being that others who have seen the answer are @ liberty to try & improve on the score, and so that's the time limit they have.

Odd one out

Pick 4 or more characters/things, and ask someone to pick the odd one out.

Sudarshan, Koumadaki, Trishul, Veena

Answer being (Saraswati's) Veena. The others are all weapons of the trinity gods, but the Veena ain't.

Vamana, Parashurama, Dronacharya, Kripacharya, Ashwatthama

Answer: Vamana, since all others were warriors

String the sequence

Dileepa, Aja, _____, Atithi

Answer: Rama. The above are rulers of the Raghukul, separated by one generation each, so that Raghu, Dasharath & Kush weren't listed.

Panchajanya, Sudarshan, Koumadaki, _____

Answer: Padma, which is the 4th item that Vishnu has

Santanu, Vichitravirya, Pandu, Yudhisthir, ______

Answer: Parikshit, who was the next to succeed them, and each belonging to the same lineage

Distinguishing b/w Odd one out and String the Sequence - if a list of 4 or more names includes a _____, it's the latter, or else, it's the former.

So this is what the new game thread would look like.

Any comments b4 we launch it?

Edited by .Vrish. - 13 years ago

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Shivang

@ShivangBuch

Voyager

Posted: 13 years ago

#110

Perfect suggestion Vrish. We can now simply carry forward your above post as it is to be the first post of the new thread without any change of rules.

In Game 2 though, one clarification or addition from my side (Karna, Vikarna, Keechak, Duryodhan, Dushasan - example prior given in this thread):

In the event of multiple possible different answers with different common features or reasoning,

Even if an answer is correct, question setter may wait until the answer which he/she knew and expected is given and declare only that person winner who gives him/her the answer originally known and actually expected by him/her i.e. the question setter and the question setter will be the final authority without any argument or questioning against his/her decision (Provided his/her expected and approved answer is factually valid); or
The question setter may declare that person winner whose answer he/she thinks is the best (even if not known/thought/expected by question setter himself/herself while framing the question but surpassing his/her expected answer in reasoning according to him/her after knowing it) and most substantial in reasoning or common characteristics (again here he/she will be the final authority to judge and declare); or
The question setter may simply avoid declaring any single outright winner and has to declare then some or all to be the tied winners, and in that event, all those answers will be regarded equally correct and automatically, on first come first served basis, person giving the answer first will be the winner and will proceed further.

Note: Question setter may exercise any of the above 3 options once he/she starts getting answers, but please do notice in each case that he/she must declare (either single or some or all) the winner or winners. Then only game will move further. And he/she can/may declare it right after the first correct answer without waiting for the possibility of tie; and once a winner or winners are declared, any further correct answer will not be officially eligible to be counted in that tie even if the best. Even the judge (question setter) can't revoke the earlier declaration to modify it. And any factually invalid or incorrect answers will be disapproved/cancelled/removed after general consent even if mistakenly approved by question setter to be correct.

Edited by ShivangBuch - 13 years ago

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