Manhandling & sorry - Page 8

Originally posted by: janecastle

Feminism, radical or otherwise, in paper or practice, is about the EQUALITY of gender and not the superiority of one gender over another. People who think otherwise don't understand the term feminism and should not be called feminists. It has become a common practice these days to make out feminism into something negative, something it is not.

Coming to movies and shows, there are many of them which ACTUALLY depict what true women empowerment is. Even in the type of movies you mentioned, it is the CHOICE of the women to do such things, like it is the choice of men, even if they have nothing to do with empowerment.

The thing is, feminism is not about the superiority of one gender over the other. Feminists don't aim to suppress men or dominate men in any way. All they want is equal rights for women. It is the problem of people if they can't understand this very simple point. Feminism stands against patriarchy and NOT men. So let's not spread misconceptions like feminists are against men or are trying to dominate them.

I think you misunderstood me.

I agree to what you say that feminism is for equality and not against men but you yourself said that there are people who misunderstand the concept. These are fake feminist.

But unfortunately today society is full of fake feminist we have forgotten the very basic principle of feminism that it was against any kind of discrimination based on gender

And about the movies you are right that it ultimately the choice of woman to opt for any kind of lifestyle but then they should not promote it as women oriented film or women empowerment film which most the time producers do. Therefore these kind of people are responsible for spreading misconception about the feminism and it is by and large has become the exact opposite to its basic philosophy.

And I am not the one who is spreading misconception I was just pointing out the thought process, the ideology which is prevalent in the society in general.

Originally posted by: Fruitcustard_9

Parents aapko slap karne ki bhi authority rakhte hai .

Some people will hide Sai's faults under carpet of 18 & justify her every fault .

Sai never stopped devi for making fun of pakhi at various occasions.

Before devkit track pakhi never done anything wrong to devi still devi had made fun of pakhi , she blamed her for Samrat's being MIA but seriously it is samrat decision not pakhi. Devi should not make fun of pakhi , I know she called out about pakhi being after virat as she is right also but devi don't have right to taunt pakhi about samrat missing, sai never stopped devi . As sai don't like pakhi so she is ok if anyone make fun of pakhi .

Sai had many times said about samrat wheather he is alive or dead is so wrong to say about someone who has not done any wrong to u still sai has dragged samrat in her fights

Parents DO NOT absolutely DO NOT have the right to slap their children . I am a parent of two young children who was parented in the traditional way of being beat and shouted at. My primary instinct is to parent like that and it's something I fight against on a daily basis because IT IS WRONG! Period.

When you are the adult , YOU are the one who is supposed to act rationally. Not the minor. The only reason we disrespect OUR OWN children is we have never considered them to be individuals with feelings as acute as our own. As adults when a situation does not go our way - we are frustrated, angry, miffed at the world and people around us and may even be grumpy for hours. We think children don't feel that. We expect beings who are still exploring their feelings, navigating the world, understanding themselves , to react normally?

As for teenagers, they are going through phases of extreme hormonal changes. They are between adulthood and childhood. Their body is changing. Many of them are getting bullied in school or other places. Home is supposed to be their safe place. They are allowed to throw tantrums there. As a parent you are allowed to discipline them. I firmly believe physical force is not an answer to it.

Once you are an adult no one has the right to slap you or interfere in your decisions. That's the essence of adulthood. People including parents can advice you from their experience but decisions ought to be left to the person. Make them understand that the consequences are their own too and then let them make their mistakes.

One simple sentence by a parenting coach changed a lot for me (still learning and failing daily but I refuse to give up) - Children DID NOT ask to be born, we conceive them because we want them. They don't owe us a thing. The food/cloth/shelter, we give them are their basic rights and not a loan to be repaid later. We can hope and teach them to shelter us in our old age but THEY absolutely do not owe us that. It's our job to secure our life as adults, find an option for our old age. If our children can take care of us , well and good. It should not be asked as a repayment.

Originally posted by: janecastle

Yes Sai did a number of wrong things and she needs to be called out for it. But what Virat did is completely inhuman. And it is wrong to compare the actions of the two. If tomorrow, Sai manhandles Virat or deny him food, I am sure nobody will support Sai and will criticize her severely. Because these things are completely wrong. The problem is, Virat is a police officer, someone who is sworn to protect people. And yet, he goes ahead and manhandles his wife, deny her food or throws her out at night. These are the offences against which, Virat as a police officer is supposed to take action. And yet, he does all these things and gets away scot free. This is what I have a problem with. Regarding SaiRat's future, I am sure Sai will forgive Virat soon enough and go back to him. And Virat also seems to repenting sincerely. So if he has learnt his lesson and won't repeat them in future, there is nothing much to worry about. (since it is a TV show. In real life, things won't be that simple or easy.)

@bold a wrong is a wrong. It cant be labeled as more wrong or less wrong. For example if you give bribe of rs 500 to someone to get your work done and if anyone gives bribe of rs 5000 for that same then it cant be said that you were less wrong and other person was more wrong because a bribe is a bribe. Further one wrong act provokes a wrong reaction from other. Its a never ending cycle.

@red. Well, thats the problem. If she does this and is criticised for it then I'll be happy but I know this after seeing the current trend that it will not be the case because whatever sai does is taken lightly and get brushed under the carpet. i may be wrong because I am not a very active member of this forum but whatever I have seen, its my observation.

@ blue. Same goes with sai. She is a medical student who is supposed to be more attentive more vigilant in case of a mentally challenged person and not jump towards her own unscientific conclusions that getting her married will cure her problems. She is also a daughter of police officer so she should at least has basic knowledge that a person of unsound mind cant give consent to a marriage. Her legal gaurdian must take that decison. In its absence getting a mentally challenged person mardied to someone is punishable offence. And a crime like kidnapping should not be hidden like nothing happened.

It will be better if we dont go into the profession of the leads because they both are useless on that front.

@pink. Now this statement has an answer in itself. Virat is repenting sincerely. Now ideally a wife should not go back to the husband who has abused her physically but sai will go back to him and even forgive him because she will choose to believe that virat is a good person and is regretting his behavior.

@green. Agree word to word. In real world people are far more sensible than these characters.

Originally posted by: Bechain_Bulbul

yes feminism by definition on paper is advocacy of equality of sexes but in reality, in society, what we see is radical feminism now a days. They believe that since women were dominated by the men now women got the right to dominate and oppress men in same way.

For example, In bollywood, hollywood, ott and tv also majority of the content we see in the name of women empowerment or women based shows showcase modern day women as drinking, smoking, cursing, involved in crime, f**king multiple men just to portray them as cool as or equivalent to men. This kind of behaviour was neither good for men nor it is for women. Nobody is talking about actually empowering women by showing them as career woman, independent, strong willed, straightforward.

coming to ghum, I never said that what virat did can be justified in any manner but what sai did was not good either. Insulting virat, labelling him as toy of pakhi in front of everyone, not revealing the whole truth to him about pulkit's kidnapping and all, whatever the reason was, she should have confided in her husband who had promised her to wait till he reinvestigate the case. Both are flawed characters, both did wrong and both will repent for it. Ultimately it depends on a couple if they can arrive at the solution, at the compromise and reconcile by forgiving each other or not.

the whole point here is that while nobody supports virat's actions here but still why to always criticize him and not sai when she is wrong. Agar virat ki harkatein galat hain to sai ki soch, uski basha, uski harketin bhi utni hi galat hain. Do galat cheez ek sahi nahi bana sakti.

Just my two cents hear me out.

@bold

it’s not about woman empowerment but freedom of choice for women to do what they want to do without binding them with patriarchal values.

Because you are a woman you can’t drink or smoke or have multiple partners! Again here it’s not the question of its good or bad or right or wrong.

It’s about having the choice to choose without gender bias.

They can F multiple men or drink or curse or smoke or do all of it without being sl*t shamed. This has got nothing to do with seeking equality with men. It’s a women’s choice and should be given the freedom to choose. The choice is a good one or a bad one totally depends on the individual’s perspective.

Originally posted by: UmIbrahim

Chauvinism is outdated, cruel and degrading behaviour while feminism in its true essence is , was and always will be about equality.

The author Chimamanda Ngozi Adiche has the perfect answer in my opinion to why it’s christened feminism and not equality . We are naming the problem. The problem has been that society has ignored, mistreated, downtrodden, physically abused, threatened, raped , tortured and killed women for the crime of being born with the XX gene or choosing to be a woman later in life. The hardships that men face in the society - emotions ignored, mental health ignored etc etc have a direct link to women being at the receiving end of the same. When we ask our boys to buck up, don’t cry like a girl, don’t be like a girl, when mother’s wait hand and feet on their sons, when sons are allowed to behave absolutely abhorrently - they raise damaged men by teaching that females are second class citizens. The good men of the world are born by unlearning years of bias. That has been possible because FEMINISTS have been willing to name the problem and fight for it.

I used to be a woman scornful of feminism until my fellow women taught me better. Now I am learning to identify the different layers of feminism - the exclusionary Savarna feminism, the feminism of the marginilized etc etc while adamantly making sure I raise feminist sons.

So yes, FEMINISM is the answer.

Totally agree

We need the kind of feminism you mentioned. Which it was in the starting. But unfortunately the concept has been so distorted today that it is seen a reply to chauvinism as in, since year men oppressed women so now women should oppress men. This ideology kills the soul of feminism.

But people like you are very few who understand the difference. Today society in general use feminism as a weapon against men.

Originally posted by: UmIbrahim

In my opinion we NEED MORE FEMINISTS.

Also I made a gross misstatement and would like to sincerely apologize to any woman/man it hurts. Trans women / men have always been Men/ women. They only get to actualize that identity later because of how effed up us cis- het people are to them.

Deepest apologize to any trans/gender fluid person on here.

How I love the response yes we need more FEMINISTS ♥️

Please don’t be apologetic, been there done that with the vocabulary mostly because its so entrenched within ourselves to refer to the binary gender norms in any conversation. But recognising and acknowledging matters 👏🏻

Originally posted by: Bechain_Bulbul

I think you misunderstood me.

I agree to what you say that feminism is for equality and not against men but you yourself said that there are people who misunderstand the concept. These are fake feminist.

But unfortunately today society is full of fake feminist we have forgotten the very basic principle of feminism that it was against any kind of discrimination based on gender

And about the movies you are right that it ultimately the choice of woman to opt for any kind of lifestyle but then they should not promote it as women oriented film or women empowerment film which most the time producers do. Therefore these kind of people are responsible for spreading misconception about the feminism and it is by and large has become the exact opposite to its basic philosophy.

And I am not the one who is spreading misconception I was just pointing out the thought process, the ideology which is prevalent in the society in general.

I was not talking about you alone. I was talking about the general misconception people have that feminism is something negative. And in your initial post you clubbed together chauvinism and feminism, which is not right.

@bold- Empowerment simply means giving freedom to people to make their own choices and these movies are doing just that.

Originally posted by: KBBofRCIBC

Just my two cents hear me out.

@bold

it’s not about woman empowerment but freedom of choice for women to do what they want to do without binding them with patriarchal values.

Because you are a woman you can’t drink or smoke or have multiple partners! Again here it’s not the question of its good or bad or right or wrong.

It’s about having the choice to choose without gender bias.

They can F multiple men or drink or curse or smoke or do all of it without being sl*t shamed. This has got nothing to do with seeking equality with men. It’s a women’s choice and should be given the freedom to choose. The choice is a good one or a bad one totally depends on the individual’s perspective.

I have explained my pov in another post about the choice of women to be like whatever they want to be. But i am repeating it again here, yes its women's choice if they want to adopt all wrong practices. They shouldn't be sl*t shamed for it because men do it all the time and nobody questions them.

My problem is why these kind of roles, depictions are promoted and portrayed as women empowering roles. Why they just cant termed it as normal entertaining movie with women as lead characters. So its the very producers, the actors who spread this misconception because they want to cash in on feminism.

And what women really wants it should depend on their choice, their preference not based on any kind of prejudiced or comparison. But the truth is that most women wants to do all that what men do, not because they want it, but because they want to be "as cool as men".what kind of empowerment or choice is it when you define your preferences based on men's conception, men's standards of cool and uncool.

For example slim girl is considered hot by men in society. So girls try to become size zero.nobody likes to diet, nobody likes to wear uncomfortable short tight clothes but because they have to pass the gold test of hotness set by men, they do all that unpleasant things which they dont like and the terrible thing is they dont even realize it they are living their life upto men's set of rules. Its the men who decided that thin girl is superior than the fat one and women followed the rule blindly. They even went step ahead to mock fellow women who are not as per men's beauty standards.

Any woman can smoke, drink, have multiple partners if they really want it for their satisfaction but the truth is that most, almost all of them do that just live upto that image of "cool, happening, daring girl" which is again a men made image.

To summarize, i will say that for women to make concious choice, they have to free themselves from the misconceptions spread in the society by men.

Originally posted by: UmIbrahim

Parents DO NOT absolutely DO NOT have the right to slap their children . I am a parent of two young children who was parented in the traditional way of being beat and shouted at. My primary instinct is to parent like that and it's something I fight against on a daily basis because IT IS WRONG! Period.

When you are the adult , YOU are the one who is supposed to act rationally. Not the minor. The only reason we disrespect OUR OWN children is we have never considered them to be individuals with feelings as acute as our own. As adults when a situation does not go our way - we are frustrated, angry, miffed at the world and people around us and may even be grumpy for hours. We think children don't feel that. We expect beings who are still exploring their feelings, navigating the world, understanding themselves , to react normally?

As for teenagers, they are going through phases of extreme hormonal changes. They are between adulthood and childhood. Their body is changing. Many of them are getting bullied in school or other places. Home is supposed to be their safe place. They are allowed to throw tantrums there. As a parent you are allowed to discipline them. I firmly believe physical force is not an answer to it.

Once you are an adult no one has the right to slap you or interfere in your decisions. That's the essence of adulthood. People including parents can advice you from their experience but decisions ought to be left to the person. Make them understand that the consequences are their own too and then let them make their mistakes.

One simple sentence by a parenting coach changed a lot for me (still learning and failing daily but I refuse to give up) - Children DID NOT ask to be born, we conceive them because we want them. They don't owe us a thing. The food/cloth/shelter, we give them are their basic rights and not a loan to be repaid later. We can hope and teach them to shelter us in our old age but THEY absolutely do not owe us that. It's our job to secure our life as adults, find an option for our old age. If our children can take care of us , well and good. It should not be asked as a repayment.

I agree what u r saying.

I should clear it no parents enjoy raising hand on thier kids but there is a difference b/w insulting someone & throwing a tantrum both things r not same .

Yes physical force is not answer to anything but everything can't be hided under tag of teenager also

I recently turned 32 so I had crossed d age of 18 & teenager period.

All teenager r not tantrum throwing queen or kings nor they keep insulting people in a flick of a moment, kuch teenagers grow up to early Coz of situation they face .

Originally posted by: Bechain_Bulbul

Totally agree

We need the kind of feminism you mentioned. Which it was in the starting. But unfortunately the concept has been so distorted today that it is seen a reply to chauvinism as in, since year men oppressed women so now women should oppress men. This ideology kills the soul of feminism.

But people like you are very few who understand the difference. Today society in general use feminism as a weapon against men.

If your lived experience has shown you the kind of Feminism that is oppressive to men then I won't dispute it.

That said a woman choosing her own partner, a woman having multiple partners , a woman smoking drinking, cursing are not oppressive to men. If men see this as oppressive it's simply because they see this as loss of power for themselves. Weak men fear truly independent women because while we respect our partners, acknowledge our flaws and strive to correct them, we also do not stand for men degrading us. We do not tolerate being shamed for our choices. We do not tolerate being shamed for our education/ skin/ bodies. We make mistakes and learn to deal with the consequences.

It is the said woman's choice to make and she should be allowed the same unfettered space to progress as we give men. She should be able to get as freely married as men who have had multiple past relations . She should have the choice to remain childless. She should've the choice to hire help at home and prioritize her work. She should've the freedom to travel alone, see the world alone and still be seen as someone fit to have a partner.