Ayodhya:Ram Janmabhoomi - Page 2

Originally posted by: raksha.l

I respect such clear thoughts..You have said everything that you would have liked to say in these 2 lines👏

Originally posted by: raksha.l

1.Do you support the incident, condemn it or dont care about it?
no i was against it.bcoz it was not done with the intention of betterment of hindus or their rights or whtever which BJP tried to project but just to earn votes irrespective of the consequences and did not even take the responsibility of the riots after that.
2.What were your feelings about the incident at that point of time?

some people said better make a hospital or so in that place and i was supporting along with my family.
3.What do you feel today about it?

same as i did then.

4.Some argued that it brought back all the Hindus together..Do you agree??

i dont knw and if u r a hindu or any religion then u r bond by that u dont need this type of incidents.hindus r the aboriginals of india
5.Is it important to claim back all the Hindu temples that are now under the Islamic structures?
then will have to claim back all the monuments which were destroyed by the british also. should divert ur energies on more important things from which the whole country as a whole should benefit.
6.Did BJP get benifitted because of this or did it work against?
their intention was to benefitted from it and they did certainly.
7.Congress obviously condemned the act, but later when Shri.P.V.Narasimha Rao became the PM, he also did not take any action against the possible offenders, why???Do you think he was secretly supporting the incident, or he also did not want to lose the Hindu Vote Bank?

there had already been so much destruction that there was no need to distrub all that.


Note:Since religion is obviously one of the points here, I suggest we refrain from making any strong, hurting statements...I was able to post this topic only because I trust my DM friends to be sensible enough to know where to draw a line...Thank You😃

Cheers,
Raksha😃

Originally posted by: s.priya

Great post Raksha.

Difficult to answer whether I condemned it or not. Breaking of any religious structure being used for religious purposes or community purposes is wrong, but in this case, this was a old forgotten monument used by none. It was more symbolic of changing times, it was symbolic of a change in the "tolerant" hindu. Was this change good or bad, difficult to concise in a small post, for the factors and facts involved are voluminous and complex and intricately interwoven.

I did not condemn the act then, I condemn the tamasha they have now made it to be.

Did it bring the hindus together? In some ways, for the vote bank, it did, in some parts of India. The other minorities enjoyed the advantage of "vote bank" politically, which was not so with hindus. In some parts of India, a Hindu vote bank was formed. In a larger sense, maybe not, because it widened the chasm and accelerated the growth of religious intolerance in the country.

Structures which were demolished and desecrated so many years back, there is really no sense in reclaiming them back. It was a place of worship earlier, ti is a place fo worship now.

BJP definitely benefitted from this act. In many parts of India, where the voice of the average Indian was dimmed because of the aggresive shout of the minority community, these average citizens found a loud speaker to vent their frustrations. BJP captured or tried to capture this vote bank. Did they manage to retain the vote back? Answer is possibly a NO.

PVR and everyone else want to so play it safe. Vote Bank matters. Every day, the population of Bangla Desh refugees in Mumbai is increasing. But it is welcomed by the Political parties for these become fixed / permanent vote banks.


The average Indian remains confused, in my opinion. While he does want to lash out and fight and claim his right, he does not want to do so at the cost of others and this dilemma is what the political parties prey on. It matters not if the Indian is hindu or muslim. It is this confusion again, which perhaps, create a Babri Masjid, or a Mumbai riot, a Godhra or a Best Bakery. Sometimes, it also creates the 93 blasts.

to my mind, this is one of the best posts i've seen on IF. period! very very well articulated and that too on a topic that is very hard to think through and not be confused about. very real, without any of the light-weight niceties. one to keep.

ps. i have a bit of a different slant here but i just had to commend the writer for how she put it across...

Originally posted by: mermaid_QT

& that too with such CLASS 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼. Kudos to soumya. 👏👏👏

ditto. kudos to soumya

Yes, I am talking about the reconstruction of the Ram temple which is more famously called the demolition of Babri Masjid😃,on Dec26 1992

I think I was in 7th grade when this incident happened and I remember feeling ecstatic about it...Some of the classmates(Hindus) did not like it at all and we argued argued and argued ...Well, we were not so matured to be politically correct etc at that point of time..So words flew accross like daggers and whoever got killed got killed..

[/quote]

Raksha Di... The debate is still on... 😃 I remember doing the same atleast 10 years later.... (thats 2002 onwards)

[quote]
Today when I think back, I dont feel so strongly about it..I am not even sure why I felt like that at that point of time...Yeah, perhaps family influence...In fact I am confused if it was really a genuinely emotional thing that happened or merely a political stunt to garner the Hindu Votes...Sometimes I even feel that these kinds of things are mindless, when so many people are dying without food, shelter and clothing, all those people could think of was religion and a temple ?

After that, my family has permanently become BJP supporters, (except my grandfather of course, who is a freedom fighter and still is under the illusion that Congress is nothing but Indian National Congress...😆...)And I think its true for most of the Hindu families.. [/quote]

I can see where ur coming from.... 😃 My family is an assortment of people who are strong leftists to my Mom n a few others who strongly support the BJP to my grandmom who supports Mamata Bannerjee... But me... Well... I do not support anyone... I am not pro BJP... But Yea I am anti Congress... 😆😆

Originally posted by: souro

Since there's a warning, I won't venture to present my whole unadulterated views.😃 I supported it then, don't regret it now, the rest you can guess.

Your views are SMART souro ji!😊

1.Do you support the incident, condemn it or dont care about it?

Condemn it, it was wrong and should not have happened. They could have built a grand temple in front of the mosque, or atleast should have waited for Court's ruling.

2.What were your feelings about the incident at that point of time?

I had no idea about it then, I was in 8th std then.

3.What do you feel today about it?

Yahi ki it shouldn't have happened, it lead to riots which resulted in scores of innocent people getting murdered. But it wasn't without +ves, it was a turning point in Modern India's history, finally there was a nationalist party who could take on and stand up to Congress. Congress era was finally over (Thank God!). And it also brought to notice the blatant minority appeasement politics.

4.Some argued that it brought back all the Hindus together..Do you agree??

True to a certain extent, it brought Hindu sense of idendity on the forefront.

5.Is it important to claim back all the Hindu temples that are now under the Islamic structures?

No, bec'se it would be impossible to do that and most imp waste of time and energy which should rather be spent on more pressing things. Jo ho gaya so ho gayaa, gade murde ukhadne se koi faayda nahin. Lekin, we must stop the kind of minority appeasement preparated by our "secular" brigade...

6.Did BJP get benifitted because of this or did it work against?

Yes, they benefitted immensly, from 2 seats in 1984 to the biggest party (183 seats) in 1999 elections...everyone wanted to stop BJP by hook or crook.

7.Congress obviously condemned the act, but later when Shri.P.V.Narasimha Rao became the PM, he also did not take any action against the possible offenders, why???Do you think he was secretly supporting the incident, or he also did not want to lose the Hindu Vote Bank?

PVNR did not take any "action" against the "offenders" as...

1) doing so would have created serious law and order problems.
2) he had no moral authority to do anything since Congress Party itself unlocked the doors of the mosque. And not to mention the allegations that Central Govt didn't do anything to stop demolition, it sat like mute spectator.
3) he did not want to lose Hindu votes.
4) he was too laid back, he is believed to have said "no action is also an action" or something like that...😆

Originally posted by: SolidSnake

1.Do you support the incident, condemn it or dont care about it?

Condemn it, it was wrong and should not have happened. They could have built a grand temple in front of the mosque, or atleast should have waited for Court's ruling.

😆😆😆@Court ruling...Please excuse me, but I had to laugh...I am glad that you trust in our judiciary system

2.What were your feelings about the incident at that point of time?

I had no idea about it then, I was in 8th std then.

Hmm,, but were you in India only that time???Because with the kind of hungama and the riots that happened after that, I thought no one could have missed it...I was 12 year old, but felt so stressed out😆 with what was happening around

3.What do you feel today about it?

Yahi ki it shouldn't have happened, it lead to riots which resulted in scores of innocent people getting murdered. But it wasn't without +ves, it was a turning point in Modern India's history, finally there was a nationalist party who could take on and stand up to Congress. Congress era was finally over (Thank God!). And it also brought to notice the blatant minority appeasement politics.

4.Some argued that it brought back all the Hindus together..Do you agree??

True to a certain extent, it brought Hindu sense of idendity on the forefront.

5.Is it important to claim back all the Hindu temples that are now under the Islamic structures?

No, bec'se it would be impossible to do that and most imp waste of time and energy which should rather be spent on more pressing things. Jo ho gaya so ho gayaa, gade murde ukhadne se koi faayda nahin. Lekin, we must stop the kind of minority appeasement preparated by our "secular" brigade...

6.Did BJP get benifitted because of this or did it work against?

Yes, they benefitted immensly, from 2 seats in 1984 to the biggest party (183 seats) in 1999 elections...everyone wanted to stop BJP by hook or crook.

7.Congress obviously condemned the act, but later when Shri.P.V.Narasimha Rao became the PM, he also did not take any action against the possible offenders, why???Do you think he was secretly supporting the incident, or he also did not want to lose the Hindu Vote Bank?

PVNR did not take any "action" against the "offenders" as...

1) doing so would have created serious law and order problems.
2) he had no moral authority to do anything since Congress Party itself unlocked the doors of the mosque. And not to mention the allegations that Central Govt didn't do anything to stop demolition, it sat like mute spectator.
3) he did not want to lose Hindu votes.
4) he was too laid back, he is believed to have said "no action is also an action" or something like that...😆

Originally posted by: Maya_M

Raksha, Very interesting topic. I think I was 13 when it happened and I agree with you. It was a turning point in Indian history and rise of RSS and Shiv sena.

Thanks Maya...😃

1.Do you support the incident, condemn it or dont care about it? I condemn it the same way I condemned Buddha demolition in Afghanistan.

But what has the Budha statues to do with the Hindu temples..The last I heard, those Budha statues were not carved out of any Islamic ones...

2.What were your feelings about the incident at that point of time? I was too young to form a strong opinion about the incident then but I know that my family was not supportive of it. We have always been against religious fanatic parties though I still believe that BJP is a strong party with educated leaders and it should not associate with any sort of fanaticism.

For you its fanaticism...But come to think of it, India needs strong human beings...Hindus became too tolerant and are allowing everbody to walk all over...We have strong Muslims, strong Christians, but Hindus- no sense of belonging- unke liye 'sab chalta hai'...That attitude is what got us where we are today- a gorging ground for all the foreighners to come and take a ride at us..

3. What do you feel today about it? I would go with what I wrote in point 1. I am also amused that some leaders in BJP had the nerve to condemn Buddha demolition in Afganistan.

My response is also still the same as pont 1.😃

4. Some argued that it brought back all the Hindus together. Do you agree?? No. How can any sort of violence bring anyone together? What it did was made the Hindu-Muslim rift more obvious or I would say widened the rift.

It did bring the hindu thatva to the forefront.. Hindu muslim rift has always been there- we can deny it but its there...And its Hindus who have always been sacrificing to show their brotherhood...Its high time even the Muslims did something about it...

5.Is it important to claim back all the Hindu temples that are now under the Islamic structures? No. India's history is not just associated with Hindus. We have had so many invasions and rulers and we have adapted so much from all those that everything has blended into one Indian culture. Now we can't separate one from another. We know some Mughal rulers were aggressive and destroyed many Hindu temples like in Kashmir which was primarily a Hindu state with maximum temples but all destroyed by invaders, the point here is if we go back to taking revenge then there is no end to it. Whom are we avenging? They are one of us. So we should move on and work on more important issues like poverty, peace and education.

We are not avenging 'them'...Since they are one among us now, they had better understand what our emotions are and not make a hue and cry about it and support us...
6.Did BJP get benifitted because of this or did it work against? It benefited for them because they could brainwash some Hindus but in the long run it didn't as many realized later that it was just their trump card to be used in every election.

I object to this term...You can brainwash probably a few people, not such a huge population...There has to be some genuine appealing to touch the majority😃...
7.Congress obviously condemned the act, but later when Shri.P.V.Narasimha Rao became the PM, he also did not take any action against the possible offenders, why???Do you think he was secretly supporting the incident, or he also did not want to lose the Hindu Vote Bank? He had many other things to work on and he was one of the corrupt leaders in the party working along with some godman. He probably didn't want to create a new issue and bring the focus on him.

Shri PVNR is a very good leader and one of the few PMs who did something to our country....I would say he had been made a scape goat by the politics within his own Party...And also I am not too aware of what cheating he did and all, like I said, I was also young at that time and was not too much interested in the politics

I know it is a sensitive and controversial topic but I have sincerely replied to all questions. My personal views to questions Raksha posed.

I appreciate your views Maya..BTW, all my rebuttals above are not fully what I believe in, but just wanted to put forth different views...