Elli vs Naag Man! So who was wrong?

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In Armaan vs Elli spat...

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return_to_hades

@return_to_hades

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 12 years ago

#161

Originally posted by: SoPunk

I'm sorry, but you are absolutely mistaken.

This wasn't merely a joke between friends. People aren't taking it over the top. I feel you maybe failing to realize the gravity of the situation.

- Whether it is between strangers or good friends. There are certain social boundaries of decency that must never be crossed. Hypothetically, had Elli allowed and enjoyed Armaan enjoy such behavior, I would have called her out for allowing men to demean women on public televisions. Just like Pratusha she would be responsible for promoting misogyny. Her eventual acceptance of the apology wasn't a genuine heartfelt forgiveness, but a begrudging necessity of television pretenses.
- Yes. Saying or thinking something doesn't constitute a crime. In this case it constituted very extreme indecent behavior. We need to make a hue and cry and fuss every time a person crosses that line with someone. Only then will society learn that somethings are seriously wrong. Saying its just a joke between friends, don't make it ia big deal is exactly the kind of social attitude that promotes rape culture and sexual harassment of women.
- Actually, when you think of it in pure legal context - threatening to rip off clothes or steal an unwilling kiss are considered threats of sexual assault. Most legal systems will take it very seriously and don't think these are things to joke about. The fact that the Indian society sees it just as male humorous banter and not a serious issue is testament to why women in India face so many challenges

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return_to_hades

@return_to_hades

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 12 years ago

#162

@SoPunk

I think you are seriously mistaking what constitutes a 'friendly joking environment'. A friendly joking environment usually takes years to build, where people know each other very well. Coming together on a reality show and sharing some banter does not make people friends. Everyone is still on an acquaintance level. Besides even a friendly joking environment has some boundaries that were crossed.

"I'll kill you" as a joke is completely different from "I'll tear your clothes off". Sexual assault has been in a separate category of its own. Moreover, sexual teasing as a joke has been known and proven to escalate into sexual harassment and assault. I'll kill you as a joke doesn't lead to any further violence. And even with "I'll kill you", communities tormented by school shootings or murder/suicides don't find that as a joke either. You will be immediately reprimanded for insensitive humor and people will freak out because some people actually have snapped and crossed the line.

The fact that such behavior took place in front of seventy cameras and took place on on a reality show that was broadcast to the public makes the issue even more serious. Just like you, many men will assume everything is alright in friendly banter. But it is not true. Many men assume that comments like "kapde phaad doonga" are completely acceptable and feel that they can start teasing friends and even lay women in that manner and then go "hahaha just a joke".

As a society we have a responsibility to reprimand wrong behavior without excuses. And calling out people for wrong behavior isn't dictatorship. And it isn't violating a right to draw lines in friendships. If any man or woman is being disrespectful to a friend, I would tell them to get better friends. If any person is encouraging any disrespectful behavior on public television, I would call them out for it. It is called social responsibility.

This reaction isn't over the top, but exactly what is needed to prevent social misunderstandings on what is acceptable behavior.

It is really unfortunate that you feel that this is just joking amidst friends. I've done my best, and I have no idea how to emphasize with you otherwise. But this isn't how friendly flirting or joking is and there is not a single woman in the world who would appreciate a friend or even a close boyfriend talking to her like this, not even as "just a joke".

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Bhinder

@bhinder.thind

Dazzler

Posted: 12 years ago

#163

I don't understand why these people in this season are so feminist? Men go on "Omg, She is a girl and should only be in Kitchen. I remember Armaan saying "Pyaaj Cutna ladhki ka Kaam..something aisa" and Girls go "Ladhki se baat karne ka tameez nahi, Hum ladhki hain, ladhki hain, ladhki hain" . At the first place there shouldn't be any issue with sex equality. If you believe both are equal in one lane, why you want extra support in another? The problem is when you respect someone just because they are of opposite sex. Respect should be based on their personality and aura. Not two soft tissues or a long stick.

It was a bit off topic but coming to topic, I believe Armaan was off track. He looks high on Viagra to me and lure his desires for women body openly. My judgement on his personality is he is spoiled man with an ancient times opinion about women i.e. they belong only to kitchen and bed.

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axeion

@axeion

Stunner

+ 2

Posted: 12 years ago

#164

Originally posted by: bhinder.thind
I don't understand why these people in this season are so feminist? Men go on "Omg, She is a girl and should only be in Kitchen. I remember Armaan saying "Pyaaj Cutna ladhki ka Kaam..something aisa" and Girls go "Ladhki se baat karne ka tameez nahi, Hum ladhki hain, ladhki hain, ladhki hain" . At the first place there shouldn't be any issue with sex equality. If you believe both are equal in one lane, why you want extra support in another? The problem is when you respect someone just because they are of opposite sex. Respect should be based on their personality and aura. Not two soft tissues or a long stick.

I would have to say I partially agree with your point here. It's not about being a feminist or anything, but when one demands equality then there is no reason for asking special favors in terms of more respect based on gender or leniences in physical tasks etc. But then a good number of Indian Males (and some females) are so accustomed to treating women not so well that they need constant reminders about mending their ways. They need this constant stick on their heads to realize that their actions are unacceptable. I hope this would change soon, and we women will not have to remind others that we need to be treated with equal respect and dignity. It should come naturally to humans. :)

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SoPunk

@SoPunk

Sparkler

+ 5

Posted: 12 years ago

#165

@RTH -

I don't think there is any time frame for being friends. Completely depends on person to person. It can be in couple of days and even years.. .. If you watch all the videos of them, you will find their bond. Even during the task. Well, I always feel they were joking in a friendly environment & they never look like three aliens, as many times I watch that video. 😊

Rest of the points I'm sure, we have had enough deliberations and made our POVs clear. I

Edited by SoPunk - 12 years ago

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Bhinder

@bhinder.thind

Dazzler

Posted: 12 years ago

#166

Originally posted by: axeion
I would have to say I partially agree with your point here. It's not about being a feminist or anything, but when one demands equality then there is no reason for asking special favors in terms of more respect based on gender or leniences in physical tasks etc. But then a good number of Indian Males (and some females) are so accustomed to treating women not so well that they need constant reminders about mending their ways. They need this constant stick on their heads to realize that their actions are unacceptable. I hope this would change soon, and we women will not have to remind others that we need to be treated with equal respect and dignity. It should come naturally to humans. :)

And How It was different to what i said earlier? Feminism is not only a problem in India, Its all over the world. But In India, Its like the first thing you will notice. First in line? Because I am woman. Need to sit? Because I am woman. It doesn't make any sense or does it? You ain't doing any favor on us being a woman or are you? Treat everyone fairly. But I believe Its not all their fault, Men are used to be so dominant that hard o breath for women sometimes. Its in their history. I been to India couple of months ago, and In some Public bus, there was a guy sitting on seat. he wouldn't offer his seat to 85 years old man standing next to him but to some 20 years old college girl. How on earth it even makes any sense? and Its not the only way or incident this thing happen. there are so many and people living in India may know better than me.

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axeion

@axeion

Stunner

+ 2

Posted: 12 years ago

#167

Originally posted by: bhinder.thind
And How It was different to what i said earlier? Feminism is not only a problem in India, Its all over the world. But In India, Its like the first thing you will notice. First in line? Because I am woman. Need to sit? Because I am woman. It doesn't make any sense or does it? You ain't doing any favor on us being a woman or are you? Treat everyone fairly. But I believe Its not all their fault, Men are used to be so dominant that hard o breath for women sometimes. Its in their history. I been to India couple of months ago, and In some Public bus, there was a guy sitting on seat. he wouldn't offer his seat to 85 years old man standing next to him but to some 20 years old college girl. How on earth it even makes any sense? and Its not the only way or incident this thing happen. there are so many and people living in India may know better than me.

Umm, did I not say I agree with you? What are you talking about then now? Guess you just repeated what I said a while ago... Nice, I like this game of repeating what the other say in different words.

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Bhinder

@bhinder.thind

Dazzler

Posted: 12 years ago

#168

Originally posted by: axeion

Umm, did I not say I agree with you? What are you talking about then now? Guess you just repeated what I said a while ago... Nice, I like this game of repeating what the other say in different words.

Yea and here you go with a prize? Lmao, You said PARTIALLY AGREE. and there is a difference between being fully agree or a bit. and Yea, because you repeated what i said before in different words. and I wanna present you with a teddy bear for this. please do the honor bro?

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axeion

@axeion

Stunner

+ 2

Posted: 12 years ago

#169

Originally posted by: bhinder.thind
Yea and here you go with a prize? Lmao, You said PARTIALLY AGREE. and there is a difference between being fully agree or a bit. and Yea, because you repeated what i said before in different words. and I wanna present you with a teddy bear for this. please do the honor bro?

Partially agree, because you said you dint understand why women use the gender card... so that they can drill it into other's head. The junk that human brain has accumulated over centuries of male dominance needs lots of digging n drilling before it can be cleared fully.

And no mate, you can have the teddy bear. I have my own lil puppy to cuddle!

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Rapier

@Rapier

Rocker

Posted: 12 years ago

#170

Originally posted by: bhinder.thind

And How It was different to what i said earlier? Feminism is not only a problem in India, Its all over the world. But In India, Its like the first thing you will notice. First in line? Because I am woman. Need to sit? Because I am woman. It doesn't make any sense or does it? You ain't doing any favor on us being a woman or are you? Treat everyone fairly. But I believe Its not all their fault, Men are used to be so dominant that hard o breath for women sometimes. Its in their history. I been to India couple of months ago, and In some Public bus, there was a guy sitting on seat. he wouldn't offer his seat to 85 years old man standing next to him but to some 20 years old college girl. How on earth it even makes any sense? and Its not the only way or incident this thing happen. there are so many and people living in India may know better than me.

Sorry to intervene but I couldn't just let this pass. I'm not attacking you or anything. I just want some clarification. This is what I understood from your post, correct me if I'm wrong. Feminism is a problem, now? And you're explanation as to why it's a problem...Are you serious? It's a problem because men are to give up their seats and let women cut them in line? Really? This is your problem? I'm sorry, but women couldn't hear you over all the other crap they have to endure, like sexual harassments, rapes, discrimination everywhere (socially and institutionally), and constant judgments! Feminism is NOT a problem! And surely not because of those reasons you mentioned. It is a movement that is absolutely necessary!

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