Maya Mehrotra? - Page 7

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441597 thumbnail
Posted: 8 years ago
#61

Originally posted by: .annihilation.


Apologies for butting in.

Krystal, that's a good point you made just now. He did have a couple of alternatives that he could have made. Exactly the same way, Maya too had a few alternatives she could have made. The most easiest and plausible one was to just call the cops up once she realised that Ayaan isn't budging when she said that Arjun isn't at home.

I'm not sure if my argument is going to make sense to you. If it does, all good. If it doesn't, I'll try not to explain it further.


Exactly. The thing is, nobody is trying to prove that what Maya did was right. Whatever she did was wrong and is being condemned for it.

But when Ayan commits the exact same mistake as Maya did, he's defended. That makes no sense whatsoever.

Ayan and Maya made similar mistakes; both should be condemned. Maya's action was criminal (sedating and tying up Arjun), and similarly, Ayan's action of tearing into Maya's clothes was also wrong. I don't know if we're really peddling the 'Two wrongs make a right' argument here.
Penkie06 thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#62
I have some questions and their answers in my opinion.
_ Why did maya keep the keys on such a visible thing (the table) in the first place? Couldn't she lock arjun up and immediately keep the keys inside a vase or something?

Because she wanted ayaan to see the keys.

_ Why did she hide the keys inside her blouse in front of ayaan? Couldn't she do that before opening the door if at all her BLOUSE was the safest place to keep the keys?

Because she wanted to infuriate ayaan even more. Remember him saying " tumhe kya lagta h aisi harkat kar ke tum bach jayogi? " What harkat did he suddenly refer to? Of course her hiding keys inside blouse.

- Why is ayaan being charged when if vandana saanjh suman would have seen maya locking arjun up and hiding keys would have slapped the heck out of her and surely torn her dress to get the keys? Why is it even expected that near and dear ones would bear this kind of nonsense?

Because ayaan is a boy. And women modesty ka case thokna on him is the easiest thing.

_ Can't men become infuriated like hell and beat another man when he's constantly instigating him? Is that a case on hampering a man's modesty?

Yes they can. No it's actually not. And even if is, not great enough to go to the court. Only because it's a confrontation of a man and a woman, the woman will be justified no matter how low she has already fallen to instigate the man. And what has the man done? Tear her blouse off? No right? Only sleeves.

_ Was Ayaan wrong in uttering words?

Yes maybe. But there's no prosecution against verbal arguments. Otherwise most men on public transport will be prosecuted for rape everyday. Because they utter things even without reason. Here ayaan was instigated. And if words mattered, most people on this forum should be prosecuted for calling saanjh a s**t and a wh**e now and then.
annihilation thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#63

Originally posted by: krystal_watz


Exactly. The thing is, nobody is trying to prove that what Maya did was right. Whatever she did was wrong and is being condemned for it.

But when Ayan commits the exact same mistake as Maya did, he's defended. That makes no sense whatsoever.

Ayan and Maya made similar mistakes; both should be condemned. Maya's action was criminal (sedating and tying up Arjun), and similarly, Ayan's action of tearing into Maya's clothes was also wrong. I don't know if we're really peddling the 'Two wrongs make a right' argument here.


From what I gather, those who are putting arguments in Ayaan's defense is because they're all choosing to give the benefit of doubt to Ayaan over Maya. It could be the same for those who're doing it for Maya.

In my opinion, Ayaan should be punished in accordance with the laws for forced entry in the house and for manhandling/borderline physical assault.

Maya should be punished for (there's actually a list of it) but with regards to this entire incident, for drugging up Arjun, abducting him (taking him away without his permission when he made multiple attempts to stop the ambulance falls under abduction), tying him to the bed against his will, staging the crime scene (at least prior to the keys part) and then according to my observations (assumptions, theories, whatever word you'd deem fit here) for misleading Ayaan and putting the false attempt to rape case on him.

Okay, good talk! 👍🏼
441597 thumbnail
Posted: 8 years ago
#64
For all people placing the 'Feminism' argument here, I'll try and elaborate all in a last-ditch attempt to explain where this argument falters.

Feminism means 'equality between the genders', sure. But in a society where women are still oppressed and considered secondary to men in every way and manner; can such a equality be made to exist in its truest sense?

If a man is discovered naked on the streets, society would make fun of him for a few days and then forget it. But if a woman gets raped and violated, she's punished for it her whole life. Her very existence is made into a living hell. Heck, even the suspicion of 'immodesty' can make people perceive her as 'damaged goods'.

In such a society, you CANNOT be supporting 'ripping a woman's clothes because she did something wrong'. Such an action translates into gender violence simply because the existing power dynamics in the society is so skewed in favour of the male gender.

Let an example suffice. In the United States, Black people can go around calling each other the 'N'-word freely, but NOT Whites or non-Black people. Why is that so? After all, all races are supposed to be equal, right? If Black people can use terms such as 'Rednecks' and 'White Trash' , then why can't White people do the same?

They can't. Because of the existing history of violent oppression and inhumane treatment of Black people in the 19th century. Racism continues to be a huge issue in the States to this day, what with a majority of American prison inmates being Black people and incidents of white cops shooting at unarmed black men and children. Power relations are skewed here. Therefore, Black people can say the words "White Trash", but White people cannot say "n****r".


The point I'm trying to make by using this example is, that you CANNOT treat two groups 'equally' in every freaking sense, when one group has traditionally been less powerful than the other. Women have historically been treated as inferior to men; they still are. Therefore, 'ripping a man's clothes apart' and 'ripping apart a woman's clothes' are not and CANNOT be viewed in the same manner. So, arguments like 'What if Maya had been a man' are null. I repeat, NULL.

Maya or anybody else is not a single individual in this context; when you're part of a less privileged group, every individual becomes a unit of that group.
Edited by krystal_watz - 8 years ago
Khushi_love thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#65

Originally posted by: krystal_watz


What Saanjh said about the key being hidden in Maya's chest might be very well true; and this could be Maya's set up. Everybody agrees with it so far.

But that being said, why was Maya shuddering while having flashbacks of Ayan assaulting her? When Arjun was hugging her, she remembered Ayan's manhandling and seemed troubled. That again messes things up.

Omg...Don't you yet get it???...That's the illusion she's creating ...Her shuddering is a part of the illusion which she wanted to create...That Ayaan attempted to rape her...It's so obvious!!

About the 'tearing' bit, I don't think it was unintentional. Ayan did say that 'tum chaabi jahan chahe rakho, main nikal lunga'. There were alternatives available to Ayan for retrieving the keys; calling the cops was one of them.

The tearing was obviously unintentional...It wasn't as if the keys were in the sleeves...If he had torn her clothes from her torso, that could have been termed as inappropriate...But since he was trying to hold her arms, n she was trying to run away, it was clearly unintentional on Ayan's part, or it could be shown later as intentional on Maya's part.

441597 thumbnail
Posted: 8 years ago
#66

The flashback was shown to US, the viewers. Not Arjun. And he was hell-bent upon getting the keys, so there's no saying that he wouldn't have torn off clothes from her torso as well. He didn't get the chance is more like it.

Secondly, you didn't answer my question about, "Why Ayan didn't use the alternative route". I'm still awaiting the answer.

On another note, i advise you to read the work of authors such as Simone de Beauvoir, Gloria Steinem and Alice Paul to get a clearer picture of how diverse, stratified and nuanced a subject feminism really is. Would help you understand the concept better than just the 'basic' stuff you seem to go by.
Edited by krystal_watz - 8 years ago
441597 thumbnail
Posted: 8 years ago
#67

Originally posted by: .annihilation.


From what I gather, those who are putting arguments in Ayaan's defense is because they're all choosing to give the benefit of doubt to Ayaan over Maya. It could be the same for those who're doing it for Maya.

In my opinion, Ayaan should be punished in accordance with the laws for forced entry in the house and for manhandling/borderline physical assault.

Maya should be punished for (there's actually a list of it) but with regards to this entire incident, for drugging up Arjun, abducting him (taking him away without his permission when he made multiple attempts to stop the ambulance falls under abduction), tying him to the bed against his will, staging the crime scene (at least prior to the keys part) and then according to my observations (assumptions, theories, whatever word you'd deem fit here) for misleading Ayaan and putting the false attempt to rape case on him.

Okay, good talk! 👍🏼


This post of yours definitely makes sense. Yeah, been good talking to you.
Khushi_love thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#68

Originally posted by: krystal_watz

For all people placing the 'Feminism' argument here, I'll try and elaborate all in a last-ditch attempt to explain where this argument falters.

Feminism means 'equality between the genders', sure. But in a society where women are still oppressed and considered secondary to men in every way and manner; can such a equality be made to exist in its truest sense?

So does that mean you are saying that females are the weaker gender n hence deserve special privileges?

If a man is discovered naked on the streets, society would make fun of him for a few days and then forget it. But if a woman gets raped and violated, she's punished for it her whole life. Her very existence is made into a living hell. Heck, even the suspicion of 'immodesty' can make people perceive her as 'damaged goods'.

Omg...That a most sexist comment that I've heard in a long long time...Which era do u belong to???...I seriously wonder...I am amazed at your choice of words... 😲

In such a society, you CANNOT be supporting 'ripping a woman's clothes because she did something wrong'. Such an action translates into gender violence simply because the existing power dynamics in the society is so skewed in favour of the male gender.

So what you are propagating is actually radical feminism...Sorry, not my cup of tea...


Let an example suffice. In the United States, Black people can go around calling each other the 'N'-word freely, but NOT Whites or non-Black people. Why is that so? After all, all races are supposed to be equal, right? If Black people can use terms such as 'Rednecks' and 'White Trash' , then why can't White people do the same?

What a ridiculous example!!!...I may allow my sister to call me an idiot...But not the others...So can the others insist that just bec my sister calls me an idiot, they can, too????

They can't. Because of the existing history of violent oppression and inhumane treatment of Black people in the 19th century. Racism continues to be a huge issue in the States to this day, what with a majority of American prison inmates being Black people and incidents of white cops shooting at unarmed black men and children. Power relations are skewed here. Therefore, Black people can say the words "White Trash", but White people cannot say "n****r".

I m not aware of these practices in the US, but even if such a thing exists, it's clearly wrong n it doesn't have way for other wrong practices in the rest of the world...

The point I'm trying to make by using this example is, that you CANNOT treat two groups 'equally' in every freaking sense, when one group has traditionally been less powerful than the other. Women have historically been treated as inferior to men; they still are. Therefore, 'ripping a man's clothes apart' and 'ripping apart a woman's clothes' are not and CANNOT be viewed in the same manner. So, arguments like 'What if Maya had been a man' are null. I repeat, NULL.

Strongly disagree, coz I disagree that women are the inferior sex in the 21st century...Especially a powerful woman like Maya who has made a strong mark in the business world, despite being the "weaker"sex (as per you...

N I m deeply shocked by your views that a male's modesty can be outraged n his clothes can be ripped apart without falling in the same category as when it happens with a female....I strongly disagree here...

Maya or anybody else is not a single individual in this context; when you're part of a less privileged group, every individual becomes a unit of that group.

All your comments are sexist in nature. We don't need to blame men actually, when we women ourselves are hell bent on proving ourselves as the weaker sex.



Feminism - the doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights of women equal to those of men.
It is the belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities."


Krystal, what you are advocating is sexism which is behavior, conditions, or attitudes that foster stereotypes of social roles based on sex.

The police officer example which you have given is totally off the context...We are talking of a female criminal trying to use her feminity to accuse a male of a fake rape case, where the male is desperate to have his brother released from her clutches with NO INTENT OF SEXUAL ASSAULT WHATSOEVER.

Also, Maya was also clearly manhandling Ayaan on several occasions...She pushed him with her arm on his chest twice...All hell would have broken loose if Ayan had done the same...
She was the one who kicked him to fall on her...If her modesty wasn't outraged with Ayan atop her in a most compromising position, then how was it outraged by Ayan trying to get the room keys from her???

Protection of a woman's modesty is her birthright...But when the woman herself wants to "use" her gender to further her criminal intent, wants to trap a male for attempt to rape where there was no sexual intent AT ALL, where is the question of her modesty being compromised upon?!???!?

It is women like Maya who take the cause of real rape victims a 100 steps backwards...N they are doing a huge disservice to their so called "weaker" sex.

Ok...I'm finally done.

I guess we'll simply have to agree to disagree here. We've both said pretty much what we had to. No point in repeating the same points again n again...

Ciao...😃

Edited by ---Khushi--- - 8 years ago
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Posted: 8 years ago
#69

Originally posted by: krystal_watz


The flashback was shown to US, the viewers. Not Arjun. And he was hell-bent upon getting the keys, so there's no saying that he wouldn't have torn off clothes from her torso as well. He didn't get the chance is more like it.

That is purely your assumption...

Secondly, you didn't answer my question about, "Why Ayan didn't use the alternative route". I'm still awaiting the answer.

N why didn't Maya use the alternate route?...She just had to call her security...She n Jhanvi have done that before for Ashwin...Even I'm waiting for this answer 😆

On another note, i advise you to read the work of authors such as Simone de Beauvoir, Gloria Steinem and Alice Paul to get a clearer picture of how diverse, stratified and nuanced a subject feminism really is. Would help you understand the concept better than just the 'basic' stuff you seem to go by.

I m happy with the basic stuff that I go by...Of course, will try to read up if possible...I m always open to good read...But I definitely well understand the difference between sexism, feminism, pseudo feminism n radical feminism.


Peace😆
anshvi thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#70
I am not sure if anyone is supporting Ayaan for his actions...Ayaan should have let go the moment Maya hid the keys in her blouse.
He was stupid to run around her and using force to get the keys...ABSOLUTELY WRONG.

But I fail to understand why declare him the culprit when the crime is yet to be proved...One should analyse both the sides..That is the logical thing to do

Ayaan despite seeing that Maya hid the keys in the blouse ran after her and forced her to give the keys...When her sleeve got tore he should have stopped..but he kept chasing her for keys...Well one can argue that he was drunk , plus Arjun had told so much stuff about Maya that he was angry plus he saw his brother tied in such a helpless state...but that doesn't mean that he should without applying brains can pursue her and get involved in a tussle with Maya to get the keys..The sensible thing would have been to call the police...So, what he did was WRONG...like Maya said "Jitne samajhdar dikhte ho utne ho nahi" ..Also that neck biting part I am not sure if it was clearly shown...I will wait for that matter to unfold and then only can make a comment on it

Now even if he used foul language in other context still he should have refrained from using such language no matter how furious he was...He should have tackled the situation better but then he wouldn't have got trapped and story wound't have moved forward


Now coming to Maya...If one says that she is absolutely right in this case then in my opinion it is surely NOT THE CASE...She is not an innocent soul who didn't do anything
She did hid the keys in her blouse...She did instigate Ayaan by saying "Jitne samajhdar dikhte ho utne ho nahi" , "Accha hua tumhare bhai ne tumhe chodh diya" "She did lock Jhanvi and Arjun in their respective rooms" "She did instruct her mom to stay in the room only"

Why are people not doubting Maya even for a second ! When we can doubt Ayaan and his story then we should doubt Maya as well coz things are pointing out that Maya can be at fault too..To assume that Maya is absolutely the victim here would not be right !

Benefit of doubt should be given to both unless the story unfolds and truth comes out

So, to say that Ayaan is absolutely right and Maya is totally wrong is a NAIVE THING TO SAY

AND to say that Maya is absolutely innocent and AYaan is the rapist is EQUALLY NAIVE THING TO SAY !

Now m not an expert on Feminism or anything..In my opinion such cases are very sensitive...To declare a man the culprit even before the final verdict is unfair to that man IF HE IS INNOCENT...If we go by what Arjun said then all men will be punished and declared guilty even before the case begins...One must be empathetic to the rape victim but to assume that the accused is wrong always coz no woman will lie about such a thing is naive !
One must not jump to conclusions like this... both things are necessary - every victim must get justice and no innocent should be punished irrespective of their GENDER in my opinion !


So, in my opinion IF AYAAN IS SAYING THE TRUTH then he must be punished or fined for his conduct but CERTAINLY NOT FOR RAPE AND MAAYA SHOULD ALSO BE PUNISHED FOR FRAMING HIM

AND IF MAYA IS RIGHT AND HE LIED THEN AYAAN DESERVES A SEVERE PUNISHMENT.

But untill the truth comes out to declare Maya a saint and Ayaan the culprit of rape attempt is a bit harsh!

Edited by anshvi - 8 years ago

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