Maya Mehrotra?

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441597

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Posted: 8 years ago

#71

Originally posted by: ---Khushi---

Feminism - the doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights of women equal to those of men.
It is the belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities."

Krystal, what you are advocating is sexism which is behavior, conditions, or attitudes that foster stereotypes of social roles based on sex.

The police officer example which you have given is totally off the context...We are talking of a female criminal trying to use her feminity to accuse a male of a fake rape case, where the male is desperate to have his brother released from her clutches with NO INTENT OF SEXUAL ASSAULT WHATSOEVER.

Also, Maya was also clearly manhandling Ayaan on several occasions...She pushed him with her arm on his chest twice...All hell would have broken loose if Ayan had done the same...
She was the one who kicked him to fall on her...If her modesty wasn't outraged with Ayan atop her in a most compromising position, then how was it outraged by Ayan trying to get the room keys from her???

Protection of a woman's modesty is her birthright...But when the woman herself wants to "use" her gender to further her criminal intent, wants to trap a male for attempt to rape where there was no sexual intent AT ALL, where is the question of her modesty being compromised upon?!???!?

It is women like Maya who take the cause of real rape victims a 100 steps backwards...N they are doing a huge disservice to their so called "weaker" sex.

Ok...I'm finally done.

I guess we'll simply have to agree to disagree here. We've both said pretty much what we had to. No point in repeating the same points again n again...

Ciao...😃

My comments in blue.

Every educated being knows what 'sexism' means. You don't have to copy-paste definitions from Google. 😆

My arguments were not advocating sexism, because they were not prescribing behaviour on the basis of gender. Rather, those were only highlighting the reality of the power equation between genders in the society. That, my dear, is not 'sexism'. That's why I asked you to read up so that you understand nuances of concepts.

Edited by krystal_watz - 8 years ago

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441597

Suspended

Posted: 8 years ago

#72

Khushi, I'm sorry to say that your idea of feminism is extremely basic, and if I may say so, naive.

"Women are no longer considered inferior in the 21st century"--- An incredibly juvenile statement. Forget feminism, your ideas on patriarchy are also quite shallow and childish.

India specifically, has incredibly poor international ranking when it comes to gender equality, as do Arab and African countries. A woman is raped every 10 minutes in India, the society is patriarchal to boot, and you're saying "Women are no longer considered inferior in 21st century"? 😲

Even so-called 'developed' countries have patriarchal social structures. Patriarchy is a very layered thing; only screaming "women are inferior" is not patriarchy. Patriarchy can be very subtle. A lot of patriarchy exists in the US as well; it's a hot topic for debate in everyday events.

First try to understand the concept of 'inequality in power dynamics', and then maybe we'll have a debate on feminism.

I repeat what I said in a previous post:

"When two groups have a history of antagonistic behaviour towards each other and one group is guilty of having oppressed the other unilaterally in the past, then people of these two groups cannot be treated equally in negative aspects".

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441597

Suspended

Posted: 8 years ago

#73

Originally posted by: anshvi
I am not sure if anyone is supporting Ayaan for his actions...Ayaan should have let go the moment Maya hid the keys in her blouse.
He was stupid to run around her and using force to get the keys...ABSOLUTELY WRONG.

But I fail to understand why declare him the culprit when the crime is yet to be proved...One should analyse both the sides..That is the logical thing to do

Ayaan despite seeing that Maya hid the keys in the blouse ran after her and forced her to give the keys...When her sleeve got tore he should have stopped..but he kept chasing her for keys...Well one can argue that he was drunk , plus Arjun had told so much stuff about Maya that he was angry plus he saw his brother tied in such a helpless state...but that doesn't mean that he should without applying brains can pursue her and get involved in a tussle with Maya to get the keys..The sensible thing would have been to call the police...So, what he did was WRONG...like Maya said "Jitne samajhdar dikhte ho utne ho nahi" ..Also that neck biting part I am not sure if it was clearly shown...I will wait for that matter to unfold and then only can make a comment on it

Now even if he used foul language in other context still he should have refrained from using such language no matter how furious he was...He should have tackled the situation better but then he wouldn't have got trapped and story wound't have moved forward

Now coming to Maya...If one says that she is absolutely right in this case then in my opinion it is surely NOT THE CASE...She is not an innocent soul who didn't do anything
She did hid the keys in her blouse...She did instigate Ayaan by saying "Jitne samajhdar dikhte ho utne ho nahi" , "Accha hua tumhare bhai ne tumhe chodh diya" "She did lock Jhanvi and Arjun in their respective rooms" "She did instruct her mom to stay in the room only"

Why are people not doubting Maya even for a second ! When we can doubt Ayaan and his story then we should doubt Maya as well coz things are pointing out that Maya can be at fault too..To assume that Maya is absolutely the victim here would not be right !

Benefit of doubt should be given to both unless the story unfolds and truth comes out

So, to say that Ayaan is absolutely right and Maya is totally wrong is a NAIVE THING TO SAY

AND to say that Maya is absolutely innocent and AYaan is the rapist is EQUALLY NAIVE THING TO SAY !

Now m not an expert on Feminism or anything..In my opinion such cases are very sensitive...To declare a man the culprit even before the final verdict is unfair to that man IF HE IS INNOCENT...If we go by what Arjun said then all men will be punished and declared guilty even before the case begins...One must be empathetic to the rape victim but to assume that the accused is wrong always coz no woman will lie about such a thing is naive !
One must not jump to conclusions like this... both things are necessary - every victim must get justice and no innocent should be punished irrespective of their GENDER in my opinion !

So, in my opinion IF AYAAN IS SAYING THE TRUTH then he must be punished or fined for his conduct but CERTAINLY NOT FOR RAPE AND MAAYA SHOULD ALSO BE PUNISHED FOR FRAMING HIM

AND IF MAYA IS RIGHT AND HE LIED THEN AYAAN DESERVES A SEVERE PUNISHMENT.

But untill the truth comes out to declare Maya a saint and Ayaan the culprit of rape attempt is a bit harsh!

I agree with everything you said. I never said Ayan was a rapist btw. Just said that the 'tearing clothes' bit is an outrage.

Rest as I've always maintained, it could be either Maya or Ayan who is guilty. And Maya Mehrotra has committed several offences which are legally punishable.

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Zorinacatherine

@Zorinacatherine

Explorer

Posted: 8 years ago

#74

Felt the same.That might be what happens.Maya is undefeatable.do it will.be shown that she indeed is the culprit to us viewers.But she will escape the situation theougj her manipulation.

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Kaushitaki

@Penkie06

Sparkler

+ 3

Posted: 8 years ago

#75

Originally posted by: Zorinacatherine
Felt the same.That might be what happens.Maya is undefeatable.do it will.be shown that she indeed is the culprit to us viewers.But she will escape the situation theougj her manipulation.

No doubt that way!

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Khushi_love

@Khushi_love

Rocker

Posted: 8 years ago

#76

Sexism as defined by Webster's Dictionary as "the unfair treatment of people because of their sex."

On the contrary, feminism is defined by "the belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities."

(Google definitions help to make your definitions crystal clear due to correct framing of sentences. )

Unlike sexists, feminists are not trying to mistreat men, but rather receive equal compensation, opportunities and treatment.

Feminism is a movement that does not intend to degrade, but to empower. The mission of feminism is not to mistreat others, but to bring hope to the misrepresented and enact meaningful change.

It's not about which gender is better or worse than the other. The feminist movement is in place to provide equal opportunities for people. It's about taking gender out of the equation, and putting a greater value on what each individual has to bring to the world. Whether it is a young girl denied the right to school or a male tired of hearing the stereotypical phrase "man up," injustice is being done and it is essential to stand up against it. Instead of opposing each other, more change would occur if we'd use our energies to change something about the injustice both sides feel.

Feminism and sexism are generally two sides of the same coin. Feminism seeks to fix sexism. Sexism (anti women) in a way supports misandry...Feminism condemns misandry equally as much as it condemns misogyny.

Yes, women have been wronged in the past ...yes, women continue to be wronged....But that CANNOT n should not be used as an excuse for women to wrong men in the present...N Maya is clearly wronging Ayan by framing him in attempt to rape by using her gender...Women like Maya are a big liability to the cause of feminists.

Feminism as a movement is an ongoing process...It hasn't accomplished it's mission as yet...Inequalities still persist...Sexism has to go if feminism has to get it's foothold...N if women like Maya continue to misuse sexism, feminism will continue to struggle.

Yes, gender equality is a very vast subject and achieving its every aspect, in every area and field and every sense of the word isn't possible. For the quite simple reason that they are two different genders man and woman designed to function differently by law of nature. But achieving political, social and economical equality is possible although it's a long and tough battle. But propagating a kind of sexism, like saying men don't have modesty or it's okay if a man does a same thing to a man or if a woman does a same thing to a woman, doesn't help the cause either. Bringing upon and discussing issues that can't be applied in the context being discussed, does not lead anywhere.

Frankly, I believe that Maya orchestrated this rape drama with Ayan coz she was 100% sure that her modesty was completely safe n under no risk at all with Ayan. Maya clearly used sexist tactics to achieve her manipulative goals. N that, in this sexist world, which has done injustice to women since time immemorial, is unforgivable, imo.

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441597

Suspended

Posted: 8 years ago

#77

Again, you are copy-pasting stuff from online dictionaries and Wikipedia. Everyone knows all those by heart. 😆

Nobody said that Maya should get away with what she had done, or that she hasn't committed crimes. However, her crimes do not balance out Ayan's crimes (if he is indeed guilty of rape).

Let me explain with a very simple example:

Suppose I call two people into my office. One is a multi-millionaire and the other is a coal miner.

I say to them, "I'm holding a competition for you guys. Both of you have to buy the latest Ferrari model to arrive at the showrooms. The first one to buy it would be given a prize".

And, to that I add:

"I'm treating both of you equally. i don't care how rich/poor you are or what you're worth; I'm opening this competition to all irrespective of social status".

That will be, to say the least; not just a cruel mockery of the poorer man's lack of means, but also a brutal murder of logic and common sense.

Similarly, if I say that, "Just like women can tear off a man's shirt in a scuffle, similarly men too can be allowed to pull down women's skirts in public".

Will this be plausible? Will such an 'equal treatment' be acceptable in society?

The answer is NO.

Why?

Because, in society, men are not subjected to rape, molestation and eve-teasing on a regular basis. Men are not subjected to acid attacks by scorned lovers, men are not harassed over dowry demands from petulant in-laws. Men are not subjected to discrimination in the workplace because of gender.

In society, men are the dominant sex. Women are the submissive ones. Society, till date, seeks to bind women with a thousand shackles (both visible and invisible) and pressurize them to behave 'in the way that is prescribed for their gender'.

If a man's shirt gets torn by a woman, he'll not be subjected to taunts and ostracization for the rest of his life.

But if a woman gets sexually harassed, if a woman's shirt is ripped off by a man, then society would view her as a 'damaged object' and subject her to shame for the rest of her life. A man would not be subjected to such demeaning treatment. THIS is the difference. This is social reality.

We cannot impose blindly uniform standards of equality in EVERY case. We cannot view 'a man getting his shirt torn by a woman' and 'a woman getting her blouse torn by a man' as strictly equal. That's the equality of ordering both a millionaire and a beggar to buy a Ferrari. That's not equality, that's being retarded and murdering common sense. Feminism is about combining ideology with pragmatism.

The power that the two genders yield in society is grossly unequal. As long as it remains so, we cannot treat men and women EXACTLY the same when it comes to certain things.

Edited by krystal_watz - 8 years ago

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BIaddict

@BIaddict

Dazzler

Posted: 8 years ago

#78

Originally posted by: krystal_watz

Exactly. The thing is, nobody is trying to prove that what Maya did was right. Whatever she did was wrong and is being condemned for it.

But when Ayan commits the exact same mistake as Maya did, he's defended. That makes no sense whatsoever.

Ayan and Maya made similar mistakes; both should be condemned. Maya's action was criminal (sedating and tying up Arjun), and similarly, Ayan's action of tearing into Maya's clothes was also wrong. I don't know if we're really peddling the 'Two wrongs make a right' argument here.

This I agree. Both are at fault, both should get punished for what they did. Ayan did not have a sexual intent or he was not attempting t rape maya, so he should not be punished for that. But he physically attacked her, stayed in her house even after she asked him to leave, both are criminal offenses.

Similarly sedating Arjun and taking him against his wishes forcefully and tying him up and locking him is a criminal offense maya did and she should be punished for that.

If maya misunderstood Ayan's attempt as rape, it is ok but if she deliberately lied and made this case knowing he had no sexual intent then that is another crime she should be punished for.

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Khushi_love

@Khushi_love

Rocker

Posted: 8 years ago

#79

Krystal, you're quite well highlighting the patriarchal system that exists in the entire world, not just in India. That's true, no denying. And yes, women throughout the history have known to be treated as the weaker gender and that still continues till date. But by saying that a case of physical assault between a man and a man or a woman and a woman cannot be or should not be looked at as in the same way because it's the society who shames and makes the life of a woman a living hell in case of a man and a woman, isn't that exactly where the change should begin no matter how difficult in practicality it may be to achieve? Whether it's case of a man-man, woman-woman or man-woman where they are engaging in an assault to the extent that their privacy or modesty is being violated (as in being unclothed partially or fully by force or by accident), it is to be strongly condemned and no gender in such a case should be given privileges of any kind. Because, essentially, the right to their bodies are being violated.

Also, as per your example of the multi millionaire & the coal miner, well that doesn't mean that the coal miner then gets the right to steal the multi millionaires money, n when the multimillionaire tries to get back his bag of money from him, & if in the process the coal miner gets injured, he screams "help, I was already the oppressed...I'm being further oppressed" 😆

Totally irrelevant example , imo. Hence I believe it's better to take definitions n concepts from the internet which are relevant to the point one is making (saves you typing) rather than typing out irrelevant points.

Also, I would rather say, "Neither can a woman can tear off a man's PANT in a scuffle, similarly men too cant be allowed to pull down women's skirts in public".

How CAN you equate a shirt with a skirt????? N why should you??? 😲Therein lies the bias & prejudice.

Ok...This is probably the 100th time I m saying...I m done on this topic...For sure this time 😆

N I'm feeling so stupid discussing the wrongs done to women when I m watching a show where a woman is doing unimaginable wrongs to men & women alike...esp to men ...😆

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441597

Suspended

Posted: 8 years ago

#80

Originally posted by: ---Khushi---
Krystal, you're quite well highlighting the patriarchal system that exists in the entire world, not just in India. That's true, no denying. And yes, women throughout the history have known to be treated as the weaker gender and that still continues till date. But by saying that a case of physical assault between a man and a man or a woman and a woman cannot be or should not be looked at as in the same way because it's the society who shames and makes the life of a woman a living hell in case of a man and a woman, isn't that exactly where the change should begin no matter how difficult in practicality it may be to achieve? Whether it's case of a man-man, woman-woman or man-woman where they are engaging in an assault to the extent that their privacy or modesty is being violated (as in being unclothed partially or fully by force or by accident), it is to be strongly condemned and no gender in such a case should be given privileges of any kind. Because, essentially, the right to their bodies are being violated.

Also, as per your example of the multi millionaire & the coal miner, well that doesn't mean that the coal miner then gets the right to steal the multi millionaires money, n when the multimillionaire tries to get back his bag of money from him, & if in the process the coal miner gets injured, he screams "help, I was already the oppressed...I'm being further oppressed" 😆

Totally irrelevant example , imo. Hence I believe it's better to take definitions n concepts from the internet which are relevant to the point one is making (saves you typing) rather than typing out irrelevant points.

Also, I would rather say, "Neither can a woman can tear off a man's PANT in a scuffle, similarly men too cant be allowed to pull down women's skirts in public".
How CAN you equate a shirt with a skirt????? N why should you??? 😲Therein lies the bias & prejudice.

Ok...This is probably the 100th time I m saying...I m done on this topic...For sure this time 😆

N I'm feeling so stupid discussing the wrongs done to women when I m watching a show where a woman is doing unimaginable wrongs to men & women alike...esp to men ...😆

I agree completely. If Maya had torn off Ayan's pant, then it would've come under the ambit of sexual attack (regardless of the intention, mind you).

But STILL, it would not be as big a deal as the reverse. That's because, again, a 'woman's sexual chastity' is a much bigger deal for the society.

Bold and Underlined: It's easy to opine that in a virtual forum. But in reality, it'll take decades of social evolution for people to actually advance up to the point where women's sexuality and bodies are not such touchy subjects for society; where women are not called 's**ts' and 'wh**es; at the slightest suspicion of impropriety, and most importantly, where women are treated as 'human beings' and not objects.

Till then, we'll have to be mindful of ground realities. Deep-rooted social conventions take eons to be erased and phased out; we'll have to give them that much of time.

As for the example of the coal miner, you didn't understand the point of the allegory. I wasn't pointing to any violence there; rather, I was commenting on the absurdity of practicing an 'equality' which would be completely unfair to a particular section of the society. Some people are not allowed to be 'equal' to others in the society, so we have to be lenient towards the underprivileged sections. We cannot demand 'equality' in cases where one section has a clear disadvantage over the other. THAT was the point.

Edited by krystal_watz - 8 years ago

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