Santo's decision about Khemi-Hiten - Page 17

No I am not blaming it on his animosity towards DM ..
but even Maulik and Kaduu had enough sense on how to ask their father about his marriage rather than steam express Hiten who just wants a DM-bashing session ...

Whoever said Hiten should be meek and submissive..
but there is a difference between being righteous and rude..

Originally posted by: Opti

Morality is subjective. What you consider as immoral, I don't. Likewise what I consider immoral you don't. So the issue is not as simple as black and white.

It may be subjective ...

but not when the backdrop is Indian society ..

Originally posted by: Opti

He did confront his father about how he married a girl young enough to be his daughter and who is being treated like a servant right at the beginning. In fact the poor guy thought she was a servant when he first came back from the tour but was appalled to learn that she was his father's wife. After that he left the house in a huff to live with his maasa and later in the village.

Maybe I am missing something here. He did confront DM about marrying Santo but when did he ever raise any objection to the way she was being treated as a servant even when he found she was not a servant but his father's wife. He stood by watching DM throw Santo out of the house after the Kaddu affair and didn't say a thing. He had ample opportunity to object to Santo's treatment in his household, he just chose not to because it did not affect him.

Yes ..

The only obejction that Hiten had was that Santo would end up as her mother ended.. and that is still not clear.. no where did he take Santo's side or try and champion her rights as a woman in an unjust marriage!

Originally posted by: Opti

Opti, you missed my point. I emphasized that Hiten calls his father "his mother's husband" although he is the father. By the same token, "a father's wife" is not to be considered a "mother". Double standards indeed.

DMs great decision to marry Santo did not cross any relationship boundaries. Sure it created grief to some but no boundaries crossed. And of many that initially objected are coming around in accepting Santo as they realize that unch and neech has no difference. It all depends on people's values and some unch people can have low values while neech ppl can have unch values.

I truly believe Hiten will not be DMs son. So, yeah he will not have a problem marrying Khemi but then Khemi may turn out to be of Unchi family...HEHEHE....vicious circle.

"After all there is no low caste or high caste among right thinking people"...
We can all sit here and say this is blasphemy and we are the rigth thinking people and do not believe in the caste system and all. Sure, but I'd like to see how many of us have taken an interest (nevermind a love interest) in seeking out a prospective partner in our own hired hands of the house. The fact that we have cooks, and cleaners, and clothes washer and more of certain caste and are treated quite differently then the friends and family is indication enough. I don't live in India but couple of times I have visited, every household had these hired hands so it would mean every household in India in NOT the right thinking people. Interesting....very intersting indeed. Apne hi pairon pe kulhadi maar di!!!!


Seriously, this is fiction. Enjoy it as such. Let's not put out statements just to justify something when deep in our hearts we do not agree in the statement. And I am referring to: "After all there is no low caste or high caste among right thinking people".."Caste is an invention of man and is the biggest curse of our society"

Originally posted by: Opti

Following statement is a general statement and not in repsonse to Opti's post that I am quoting for follow up:
This is the last post I shall make on this topic or anything related to this as I can see no rhyme or reason as mere facts are being ignored to individual's liking. And that's ok. Each can have their own views and interpretation of things. I base my analysis and interpretation on facts being shown so far.

Now, to respond to Opti's post --
Fine, Santo is not his mother and he does not consider her as one. But one's considerations and wishes do not change the facts. The fact is, whether he likes it or not, his father is bound to Santo by marriage. Even DM was not accepting her as a member of the family, let alone his wife. He just followed his Guruji's advice. But is now slowly coming to terms with it and will eventually accept her as his wife too. Whether DM likes it or not, he took the pheras, she is his wife. And whether Hiten accepts it or not, the fact is his father is married to Santo. He can call her whatever he wants, the fact does not change.

As I mentioned ealier, everyone interpretes things differently. Opti, you are talking about 3 lives being ruined. I see it as a lot of lives being ruined. What about Nanaji, Santo, DM, Mongi, Shambhu's family and more...

Who asked DM to marry a woman who is his hired hands, grand daughter? He did it for his own selfish reasons. Having married her, he is still to give her the place of a wife and yet he has the gall to ask his son to respect that relationship and the relationships born out of that!
DMs Guruji asked him to marry her. DM was adamantly refusing it back then. But then "listened" to Guruji and reasoned with the facts laid out to him.
No one said DM is perfect. He has his faults too. He still has to accept Santo as a wife. He finally realizes he can't just shun her off in a corner. He accepts her as a member of the family. He accepted the fact that Khemi is his saali. He will eventually accept Santo as wife (or we pray and hope he does as it's a rightful thing to do).
DM may not "treat" her as his wife but he has accepted the fact that he is married to her. And he is trying to get Hiten to see the fact too.

Originally posted by: mombasa00

Following statement is a general statement and not in repsonse to Opti's post that I am quoting for follow up:
This is the last post I shall make on this topic or anything related to this as I can see no rhyme or reason as mere facts are being ignored to individual's liking. And that's ok. Each can have their own views and interpretation of things. I base my analysis and interpretation on facts being shown so far.

Now, to respond to Opti's post --
Fine, Santo is not his mother and he does not consider her as one. But one's considerations and wishes do not change the facts. The fact is, whether he likes it or not, his father is bound to Santo by marriage. Even DM was not accepting her as a member of the family, let alone his wife. He just followed his Guruji's advice. But is now slowly coming to terms with it and will eventually accept her as his wife too. Whether DM likes it or not, he took the pheras, she is his wife. And whether Hiten accepts it or not, the fact is his father is married to Santo. He can call her whatever he wants, the fact does not change.

As I mentioned ealier, everyone interpretes things differently. Opti, you are talking about 3 lives being ruined. I see it as a lot of lives being ruined. What about Nanaji, Santo, DM, Mongi, Shambhu's family and more...

Who asked DM to marry a woman who is his hired hands, grand daughter? He did it for his own selfish reasons. Having married her, he is still to give her the place of a wife and yet he has the gall to ask his son to respect that relationship and the relationships born out of that!
DMs Guruji asked him to marry her. DM was adamantly refusing it back then. But then "listened" to Guruji and reasoned with the facts laid out to him.
No one said DM is perfect. He has his faults too. He still has to accept Santo as a wife. He finally realizes he can't just shun her off in a corner. He accepts her as a member of the family. He accepted the fact that Khemi is his saali. He will eventually accept Santo as wife (or we pray and hope he does as it's a rightful thing to do).
DM may not "treat" her as his wife but he has accepted the fact that he is married to her. And he is trying to get Hiten to see the fact too.

Originally posted by: Opti

Who is disputing the fact that DM is Santo's husband and from what you said, it is because of his guruji that he married Santo (makes him even more of a selfish human being). Yes, he took the saath pheras with her. So he should be the one to ensure he fulfills them, not stash her away some cladestine place so nobody can find her. Why should hiten who was never a part of this deal, whose father did not even have the decency to inform and explain of this decision which has now become the biggest hurdle to his life accept the woman his father married as his mother and by that stretch accept her sister as maasi and stay away from her. To him Khemi was another village girl. If anything what matters is for DM to fulfill his vows and not for Hiten to 'respect' this relationship which he is never a part of or is related to by blood. There needs to be a dicotomy here.

What is society? Society is made up of people and people's mind set keeps changing. Yes, they may talk about this unconventional marriage for some time but then they would get back to business as usual after some time. I can say that because I know for a fact that it has happened amongst some distant relative of mine where the two people (of prohibitive relation) eloped and got married. They were talked about for some time. Now nobody bothers about it. Their children all found groooms/brides within their own community.

Those who do not agree wtih me will never agree with me but those who would will do so even without all this explanation. So I too am making my last post on this topic of the so called 'prohibitive' relationship.

OK, heres my last one too :)

Agree DM married Santo for selfish reasons and stashed her away but isn't doing so anymore. True he did not explain his marriage to his kids, probably was embarrassed by it which is no excuse, and probably thought that they won't find out which was stupid of him but we all know that DM has his faults but the good thing is that Santo's influence seems to be changing him and for the better. Eventually DM is going to accept Santo as his wife, he already is well on his way.

No, Khemi is not just any other village girl, there wouldn't be a problem if she was. She is his father's wife's sister i.e. his father's sister-in-law, DM shares the same relationship with Khemi that he does with Surekha and Hiten knew this very well when he started living in their house. Whether he likes it or not, that makes the relationship prohibitive in the Gujarati culture. We all know Hiten has no respect for relationships, even blood ones, so no arguments there, we agree on that.

I too know of a couple who eloped and got married and who were related although not as prohibitively as Hit-Mi and whose relationship would have been fine and acceptable in a different culture, but not in theirs and to this day(they have kids past their teens) they haven't found acceptance in their family to the extent that none of their family members visit them and they are not welcome to any of their family members' homes. As a result of this the kids don't know their grandmother as she has disowned her only son and his family and hasn't spoken to them for 20+ years. So such situations cannot be generalized, just because it worked out in one case, doesn't mean it will work out in others.

Lets hope this is the end of this discussion as like you said we're not going to be able to convince others who don't agree with us and will just end up bashing the characters we don't like.

Originally posted by: tvrasika

If you want to question society's rules and regulations, be bold. Say it loud. Let us see Hiten scream at the top of his voice, 'I don't care if Khemi is my maasi. I love her and will marry her'. let us hear Khemi say it too, 'I don't care if Hiten is my banevilal's son and my bhaanja. I will marry him only'. Why get scared now and not talk about it all? The world does not become dark because one closes one's eyes!