What is wrong with gauri's POV?

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woman11

@woman11

Voyager

+ 2

Posted: 13 years ago

#121

tinoo, Gauri's pep talk is certainly not helping Jagat as we can see. Things are just getting worse. 😆 The point is every situation has a different dynamics and has to be handled accordingly. In J-G situation, sermonizing Jagya and admonishing him is not what the situation demands. Jagya is going through a low self-esteem phase, at this point a dosage of sermon on how unworthy he is is the last thing he needs. And certainly the least effective one 😆.

I'll tell a real life situation of how a family supports a member going through crisis. A couple of years ago my cousin, who was working at a well-know business firm, lost his job due to downsizing. It was partly his bad luck and partly his own fault as he was supposed to finish a project within a deadline which he did not meet. He had a non-working wife and a 3 month old baby to support, and once he lost his job he was virtually thrown into the street since he was living in a company sponsored bunglow. My cousin packed his whole family and came over to his parents' place (my maasi's).

He was battling severe depression, would lock himself up in a room and refuse to meet anybody, misbehaved with people and threw things around in rage, could not even stand the sight of his own wife and daughter, and would wheel away his time idly without doing anything. It was a very very tough time for the family, and nobody knew if he could ever gather himself together. However, his family was an excellent support and they kept supporting him throughout his rough phase, never once blaming him or lamenting about his status or admonishing him for his future. With their love, constant support and encouragement, he came out of that phase soon, started job hunting and now is employed at an executive level in another very reputed company. Yet when I see him, I still remember how he became almost a madman during that phase, and yet his family never gave up on him; nor did they become angry or impatient with him, understood him with utmost compassion and love, and finally helped him steer clear of things.

The point is what does a family do when a member is going through a bad time and behaving irrationally and irritably?
1. Do they just sermonize him and make him show his true face when he is already down?
2. Do they assume that everything is normal and then feel amazed or irritated when the other member is not acting under normal codes?
3. Do they become irritable and angry at the irrationality of the member, who is clearly not in his normal self?
4. Do they continue having their share of joy and enjoyment, instead of mellowing down to empathize with the member?
5. Do they remind the member constantly, how unworthy he is, how he is not able to fend for himself, how he is jealous of the other member's success, how he is doing kich kich all the time?

I guess the answer depends on each family, and how supportive a family is in the times of crisis of another member. There is nothing 'wrong' in answering yes to all the questions above---technically a family member is not bound to sacrifice his/her own happiness and babysit a member in a psychological pit--but that is what that makes all the difference between a supportive and loving family and a dysfunctional or insensitive one. Now how we act in a situation of crisis for our family is completely a matter of personal choice, and hence the difference in opinion😛.

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tinoo

@tinoo

Rocker

Posted: 13 years ago

#122

Originally posted by: woman11

There is nothing 'wrong' in answering yes to all the questions above---technically a family member is not bound to sacrifice his/her own happiness and babysit a member in a psychological pit--but that is what that makes all the difference between a supportive and loving family and a dysfunctional or insensitive one. .

I love this. Thank you woman11. Thank you for explaining it so well.

Edited by tinoo - 13 years ago

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Sania

@SRKLuvr

Stunner

Posted: 13 years ago

#123

The point is Jogia is not going through any depression or low self esteem he has lost everything due to his own stupidity and now he is being irrational! When a person is being stupid they need to be told off hard! So it HITS! This is why we slap someone when they are tryin to commit suicide - to bring them to their senses! Jogia has a very easy option in front of him - COMPLETE MS! then all pain would be gone! It would take him no more than a few months! But nooo he is just being an uber snobby distasteful thing!

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woman11

@woman11

Voyager

+ 2

Posted: 13 years ago

#124

Originally posted by: SRKLuvr
The point is Jogia is not going through any depression or low self esteem he has lost everything due to his own stupidity and now he is being irrational! When a person is being stupid they need to be told off hard! So it HITS! This is why we slap someone when they are tryin to commit suicide - to bring them to their senses! Jogia has a very easy option in front of him - COMPLETE MS! then all pain would be gone! It would take him no more than a few months! But nooo he is just being an uber snobby distasteful thing!

Jogia is going through depression and low self esteem: that's his state of mind.
"he lost everything due to his own stupidity": that's the cause
"he is being irrational": that's the symptom or resultant behavior.
Lets not conflate all these different categories.

I already mentioned this, it all depends on our individual approach how we would deal with a difficult family member. You might slap a person trying to commit suicide, I might try to deal with him/her with love and compassion; slapping him/her might be the last thing my the list😆 . There is no universal rule to this, it's all individual perspective 😊.

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andv

@andv

Inactive

Posted: 13 years ago

#125

Originally posted by: tinoo
for all those who say that gauri is not "sensitive" to jagya's feelings at the moment,

I really dont see why gauri has to be "sensitive" or walk on egg shells around him. Yes she has achieved a lot, and yes she wants to share her happiness. Is that so wrong? Why should gauri "play small" and diminish herself and diminish her experiences at SNG hospital just for Jagya's comfort level?

I reiterate -- if she did not talk to him like this, he would be a life long parasite, just aimlessly sitting in front of the tv. She sent him to the dean to sweet talk him into seeing if he would give jagat an early exam so that he could complete his m.s. and what did jagat do? he went and insulted the dean and said that i will do it from some other college and one day you will come to me begging me for a job.

Gauri would not talk to him like this if he were actually studying or doing something legitimately or even handling his own matters with some care. She is irritated and genuinely so.

For all those who say that she is only money-minded -- and focusing on her salary -- yes, she is and there is nothing wrong with it. we all need money to survive. Without her salary - Jagat would be on the street just now with no roof over his head and no food at all. Atleast here at home under the chhaya of gauri's salary he gets toast and ketchup and bananas.

There are some practical issues rooted within her "materialistic" behaviour and we would all do well to recognize it because households need money. Nobody can survive on a diet of love and fresh air alone.

Well Tinoo, no body has denied the importance of money to live life and everyone living in the "real" world is quite aware that life cannot be lead on love and fresh air. But at the same time man being a social animal where he makes relationships, which involve emotions and feelings that bring in the complexities which again don't need to be elaborated. Being only "materialistic" also is not going to be enough to sustain a marriage. there has to be balance of the two and bragging about being the bread winner and showing the other down (which G has not done so far but at the rate that she is going I will not be surprised if that day comes) certainly doesn't. Let me apply the same logic that G applied. She was devastated and felt really low about her self when she discovered that Bhairav funded her education. That was all done secreatively and not like B came bragging about it. So she can quite easily understand how bad J may feel hearing her put him down. When she loves him she can put these same words in a more diplomatic manner. I will again say I do not find any thing wrong in what her opinion is or what she is saying. She is perfectly right. But her way of handling the situation is wrong.

Like I mentioned even in my other post the logic or thought process I used was, let me highlight it, "If she wants to live in a peaceful marriage with him". Well about G needing to walk on egg shells around J: unfortunately she will have to, given the wrong choice she made in a life partner. She knew all these habbits of his and his huge ego, and also got her way out to some extent when it came to maters related to his family. Why can't she dress her words and thoughts the same way now while trying to drill some sense into her lazy husband. He is running low on self esteem and there is no doubt about that given his present condition.

I have personally gone through such a phase when I had to be at home without a job since I moved to another country after marriage. The problems with not having a work permit although I got job offers is extremely depressing. Its not easy to be sitting at home doing nothing sply after having a good education and a very fulfilling career. But I owe sane self to my husband who saw to it that I sailed through this phase without getting into depression. One does tend to feel low on his/her capabilities and I was no exception. but its only due to his constant encouragement that I never sunk but came back stronger. That's what is needed from a life partner not just providing money but also emotionally supporting each other. If he were to yell at me and make me feel useless and like a parasite I wouldn't be sane.

All that I am saying is that she needs to be more patient and explain things calmly coz like J has to face the truth about his never ending list of bad habbits she also needs to face the truth that her so called husband is not going to take her loud "give it on the face attitude" lying down for long. he has an equally big ego and he will blast out sooner or later which will take their so called marriage into the dungeons. The fact remains that J is a typical old fashioned husband who has only tall talks but those talks have no weight. Again I talk about G being the one to take the initiative coz I don't expect J who is fit for nothing to do anything sane. He is a tantrum king and can very easily shrug off his fault by blaming it on others. She ought to know it by now. She made the biggest mistake by getting married to him without thinking logically and in the long term. Knowing his background before marriage she should be ready for the worst. But she still agreed to marry him. So she has to live with it. Now that she has struggled so much to make him her own why does she not have the patience to keep up the relationship? If she doesn't then there is nothing tying her to this relationship given the legality of their marriage. She can walk out anytime.

Edited by andv - 13 years ago

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ankit111

@ankit111

Rocker

Posted: 13 years ago

#126

Originally posted by: woman11

<font color="#0000FF">Jogia is going through depression and low self esteem: that's his state of mind.
"he lost everything due to his own stupidity": that's the cause
"he is being irrational": that's the symptom or resultant behavior.
Lets not conflate all these different categories.

I already mentioned this, it all depends on our individual approach how we would deal with a difficult family member. You might slap a person trying to commit suicide, I might try to deal with him/her with love and compassion; slapping him/her might be the last thing my the list😆 . There is no universal rule to this, it's all individual perspective 😊.</font>

Antara as per above logic Gouri also deserve some tight slap to come out from her Insecurity Zone. Whtever she is only due to her own fault, and her all utpatang harkaten hs been defended on the name of Insecurity and she deserve sympathy. Why jiii why. Why not the same logic is applied for her too, a tight slap wala logic 😆 😆 😆

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sush_

@sush_

Sparkler

+ 2

Posted: 13 years ago

#127

Originally posted by: SRKLuvr
The point is Jogia is not going through any depression or low self esteem he has lost everything due to his own stupidity and now he is being irrational! When a person is being stupid they need to be told off hard! So it HITS! This is why we slap someone when they are tryin to commit suicide - to bring them to their senses! Jogia has a very easy option in front of him - COMPLETE MS! then all pain would be gone! It would take him no more than a few months! But nooo he is just being an uber snobby distasteful thing!

he lost every thing as he followed gauri's decision
but you quoted it as his stupidity
so following gauri's decesion : stupidity 😆

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sush_

@sush_

Sparkler

+ 2

Posted: 13 years ago

#128

Originally posted by: SRKLuvr
The point is Jogia is not going through any depression or low self esteem he has lost everything due to his own stupidity and now he is being irrational! When a person is being stupid they need to be told off hard! So it HITS! This is why we slap someone when they are tryin to commit suicide - to bring them to their senses! Jogia has a very easy option in front of him - COMPLETE MS! then all pain would be gone! It would take him no more than a few months! But nooo he is just being an uber snobby distasteful thing!

he lost every thing as he followed gauri's suggestion
but you quoted it as his stupidity
so following gauri's suggestion : stupidity 😆 🤣

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tinoo

@tinoo

Rocker

Posted: 13 years ago

#129

I have gone through all the posts on this thread.

I always have an open mind to other perspectives or frameworks which allow me to understand other ways of thinking/doing and consequently facets of human nature. While I am very appreciative of the concept of nurturing someone who's going through a rough patch and helping someone with low self esteem climb out of a pit

I still come to the conclusion that in gauri's place I might not have handled Jagya with care for the simple reason that the pit he is in is of his own digging. I feel that it was an extremely controllable circumstance vs. an uncontrollable circumstance.

1. Andv - you mentioned that you were at home without a job because of lack of a work permit. Here I do not have any fault with your desire to work or your ability to work, or your attitude more importantly... the fact that you dont get a work permit because of immigration constraints is uncontrollable. So I have empathy with you.

2. In my own original post (the first one), I said that if Jagya had been incapacitated due to an accident or a stroke or some other uncontrollable circumstance, then that too would have been okay.

Yet, he has dug his own hole, and that too is okay... but he is not working out of his own choice (a fully controllable circumstance)... and not studying for his MS ( a fully controllable circumstance).

She has never said that it is okay with her for him to be a permanent house husband ... she is only giving him this comfort and space for him to complete his M.S.

So in such a situation, I feel that her treatment of Jagya is appropriate. If she were to handle Jagya with kid gloves, the lazy idiot will feel that it is okay for him to stay like this permanently.

Any observations on how to deal with people who sit at home owing to fully controllable circumstances?

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Manasi

@Manasi_16

Stunner

+ 9

Posted: 13 years ago

#130

Phew! Just finished reading all the posts!!!

I am also of the opinion that Gauri is not wrong in what she is thinking, but the way she is saying it needs to change. Its not always about who is right or wrong...its about what is right for the relationship. Jagya is going thru a bad phase in bhis life, personally & professionally...and he needs Gauri to understand him, empathize with him, motivate him...not just give sermons & lectures. I think both the posts Anthara has made are just perfect...I don't have anything more to add.

But i'd like to give my own example here. I have never been a very good student...I have above average intelligence, but basically I am not an acads person...I lost out on my chosen line of specialization in Post grad since I had not scored well enough in my graduation. I finished my Post grad in mid 2009, at a time when India & the world was still reeling under the sub-prime crisis. There had not been a single campus placement and general situation in job market was down. To add to it, my academic performance was bad, so it was that much more difficult for me to get a job. All my friends got a job in a month or two post the results, but I was unemployed for 7 months.

These 7 months I will never forget in my life...they were sooo bad & frustrating. And I was complete jerk all thru. My mom is also from the same profession as I am & was asking that i should join her for the time being...but I never took it seriously. I used to spend the whole day spread out on the sofa watching CID & munching junk food!!!! Whenever my brother used to shout at me for not trying hard enough, I used to immediately go into the victim mode, blaming him for being purposely condescending to me since I was not earning! I knew it was majorly my own fault that I was landed in this mess, but i still found reasons to blame the whole world for my situation. I rejected many jobs on the grounds that they were beneath my dignity. I was in almost sub clinical depression...I had stopped meeting friends & relatives also. I was an absolute & complete insensitive jerk back then.

But my mother never showed the increasing frustration that I was giving her. She always used talk very calmly, trying to instill sense into me. Her tone was encouraging & motivating...never even once was she reproachful. And she slowly got me out of the depression...now I am very happily settled in my job for the past 2.5 years.

This is the point I want to make. More than right or wrong, you have to think about the person in front of you. Someone was asking why should Gauri be so overly sensitive to Jagya's state of mind at a time when she herself is in euphoric state with her professional success. the answer to that is because they are husband - wife! Their joys & sorrows are shared...when one of them is in such depression, how can the other one go & shop for bright colourful clothes???? To give Jagya his due credit, he is a lot better behaved with Gauri than he ever was with Anandi...he used to help her in the household chores, used to even cook for her. And that coming from a guy who had never stepped into the kitchen even for a glass of water, is really commendable! After her miscarriage, he had taken full care of her very lovingly, and also willingly. Never once had he cribbed about having to do all the work himself...he gave her time to get over her sorrow, and silently supported her in the intervening phase. That is how partners should be!

Now this is Jagya's worst phase in life & instead of taking care of him, Gauri is happily enjoying her found success. I am not saying she needs to sit besides him all day & let him cry on her shoulder...NO...but she needs to treat him with sensitivity & maturity. Her in-the-face bluntness is going to be the downfall of their relationship in the current situation.

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What is wrong with gauri's POV? - Page 13

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