Why didn't Krishna participate in Draupadi swayamvar? - Page 6

As I have already mentioned Krishna wasn't a very honourable person in the royal courts those days

Drupad wouldn't have been interested in getting his daughter married to him. By becoming Ladki Waale he did become close to the Panchal clan

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Regarding the human element. Krishna's foster cousin was Drupada's wife. I'm going to keep repeating it until people hear me😆. That is probably how he and Panchali knew each other. There is nothing in the text which suggests Krishna wanted to save their friendship by marrying her which would be very weird IMO. Also, given the fact he swears to destroy the universe any time her trauma is mentioned - more than the Pandavas or her brothers, actually - I think his feelings went a little deeper. It's not just me saying it. Many, many writers have come to the same conclusion. Panchali, though, is harder to read. She almost comes across as a man (forgive me for saying this and don't shred my feminist card 😆) in putting duty ahead at all times.

Agree krishnaa is harder to read throughout the epic she has always kept her responsibilities over and above everything else. Though i would say at the lowest ponts of her - when dushashan assault her it krishna s name she takes. Even during vh it is again krishna and in vana parva she singles him out about how even he didn't came say i would say she did reciprocate his feelings. Though as o have always for both of them it was always responsibilities over personal emotions

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

As I have already mentioned Krishna wasn't a very honourable person in the royal courts those days

Drupad wouldn't have been interested in getting his daughter married to him. By becoming Ladki Waale he did become close to the Panchal clan

So Krushna just told Drupad what he wanted to hear about Arjuna or Pandavas who defeated him being alive and moved a few strings here and there to get them in the court with the help of Vyasa and spies

He never intended to participate in the Swayamvar, Is the answer to TM's question?

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

In MBh, Panchali is called Sree or Lakshmi multiple times. I think Vyasa or Bheeshma refers to her as Saraswati once but that was clearly made as metaphor not as claim of being avatar. The other goddess claims are not from Mbh and were probably made by people uncomfortable with the idea of Sree being with someone other than Vishnu.

I am aware of this. However Sree devi is not considered to be purna avatar (or whatever it is) of Lakshmi.

Originally posted by: proteeti

About if Krishna met the Ps before or not: SB clearly mentions that they had, way before the Varnavart incident. However, MB gives us no such clues. Krishna himself appears for the very first time at Drau's swayamvar and not before that.

Here again one more point arises, that MB was the P's story and SB Krishna's so obviously they each get their back story in their "own books" so to speak. And we cannot ignore SB while examining MB timelines and loopholes.

MB's narrative is kinda sketchy. Krishna just accidentally finds the Ps at the most important event of the country and then just goes along with it.

My personal opinion is that we should go by SB at this point. Krishna sending Akroora to "get the lay of the land" in HP makes way more sense and it confirms that Krishna did indeed have a meticulous espionage system and probably he was one directing Vyasa and not the other way around.

The answer to this question will obviously be gained satisfactorily by closely comparing the MB and SB timelines. One very important point to fix here is when exactly did the Ps&Ks and Krishna-Balram finish their education?

Did they graduate together?

If not then how much of a gap was there?

Also, how does the 17/18 sieges of Jarasandh on Mathura exactly line up with the MB timeline (Rangabhoomi and all)?

SB was written much after MBh and even HV.

If we take timelines mentioned in SB, Pandavas would've been Drupada's age when they went to swayamavara because SB flatly claims Pradyumna was Krishna's biological son. HV contradicts this and says Pradyumna was Gandusha's (Vasudeva's brother) son, adopted by Krishna. HV in fact says Pradyumna was older than Rukmini who was presumably Krishna's contemporary. ie, adult adoption. Then, it makes sense that both Pradyumna and Krishna were at Panchali's swayamvara, accompanied by Aniruddha who was perhaps a baby.

The other question: Pandavas surely wandered more than a year in exile as Ghatotkatcha was born by the time they moved to Ekachakra.

Convention puts Krishna at 11 at Kamsa vadh I think. I would say late teens is more likely since he needed the strength to defeat a grown man. The 17 sieges then happened. Interestingly, Duryodhana is mentioned in one of those sieges, taking part as Jarasandha's vassal presumably. ie, it happened after completion of his studies. Now, Pandavas would've been forced to participate as well had they been around. So I'm inclined to put that last siege while they were still in exile.

Even if Krishna had any plans to win Panchali, the continued attacks would've made it clear to him that he needed support fast. Krishna already had an 'in' with the Panchalas, but it wouldn't be enough to thwart the emperor. In fact, Drupada wouldn't have wanted to risk Jarasandha's wrath by allying with Krishna. The only other people in as desperate a situation as him at the time were his own cousins, the Pandavas. With Panchali's marriage, Krishna got the support he needed for his clan's survival.

Vyasa was clearly after a greater cause at the time.

Drupada wanted the best political outcome from his adopted daughter's marriage, and he got it.

Originally posted by: Eloquent

I am aware of this. However Sree devi is not considered to be purna avatar (or whatever it is) of Lakshmi.

That lotus lake story puts her a full avatar and Krishna as partial avatar of Vishnu.

However, I believe she was a flesh and blood woman, not any avatar.

One more aspect is Drupad's vendetta against Drona.

Some popular interpretations mention that the Swayamvar task was particularly kept related to archery to flush out the Pandavas & esp. Arjuna.

Drupad wanted the best archer linked to him to further his vendetta against Drona.

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

SB was written much after MBh and even HV.

If we take timelines mentioned in SB, Pandavas would've been Drupada's age when they went to swayamavara because SB flatly claims Pradyumna was Krishna's biological son. HV contradicts this and says Pradyumna was Gandusha's (Vasudeva's brother) son, adopted by Krishna. HV in fact says Pradyumna was older than Rukmini who was presumably Krishna's contemporary. ie, adult adoption. Then, it makes sense that both Pradyumna and Krishna were at Panchali's swayamvara, accompanied by Aniruddha who was perhaps a baby.

I've read that version also, although I believe SB was written with the sole intentions of - 1) Make Krishna a God, and 2) cover up loopholes of MB.

@Bold: this why necessary? 😆

The other question: Pandavas surely wandered more than a year in exile as Ghatotkatcha was born by the time they moved to Ekachakra.

Hmm, yup that should be it. So much of hyperboles and euphemisms, hard to keep a track at times! 😆

Convention puts Krishna at 11 at Kamsa vadh I think. I would say late teens is more likely since he needed the strength to defeat a grown man. The 17 sieges then happened. Interestingly, Duryodhana is mentioned in one of those sieges, taking part as Jarasandha's vassal presumably. ie, it happened after completion of his studies. Now, Pandavas would've been forced to participate as well had they been around. So I'm inclined to put that last siege while they were still in exile.

I've mostly read Krishna at 14 during Kans Vadh. And as per SB they take 2 months to complete their education. So I always believed ke while Krishna tackled Jarasandh 17 times, the Ps&Ks got their education under Drona with Rangabhoomi being around like 16th/17th siege of Jarasandha.

Even if Krishna had any plans to win Panchali, the continued attacks would've made it clear to him that he needed support fast. Krishna already had an 'in' with the Panchalas, but it wouldn't be enough to thwart the emperor. In fact, Drupada wouldn't have wanted to risk Jarasandha's wrath by allying with Krishna. The only other people in as desperate a situation as him at the time were his own cousins, the Pandavas. With Panchali's marriage, Krishna got the support he needed for his clan's survival.

That's actually a great point.

Vyasa was clearly after a greater cause at the time.

Drupada wanted the best political outcome from his adopted daughter's marriage, and he got it.

And one more thing I'm really curious now, what makes you say ke acc to SB Ps would be as old as Drupad? Doesn't that contradict with Drona being Drupad's classmate? 😳

Duryodhan as Jarasangh's vassal?? How is that possible? Hastinapur was never under indirect control of Magadh as far as I know

Why shall this happen

Originally posted by: proteeti

Chandogya Upanishad says Krishna had his education with Ghora Angirasa which adds an fascinating twist to the tale.

MBh states again and again Angirasa is Agni which makes Panchali's Agni origin very, very interesting 😆

Plus, the son Drupada wanted to kill Drona could only be a brahmana as kshatriyas could not kill brahmanas. So I'm inclined to think there is some truth to the possibility.

Devala's daughter being married to Drupada would've helped the adoption. Although if we go by Buddhist jatakas, Panchali was Devala's granddaughter (ie, a Yadava through her mother, Sannati). Then, Drupada killed Sannati's first husband (Kosala king) and married the pregnant woman. According to the jatakas, the older child, a son (Dhrishtadyumna presumably) was already born. ie, not twins.