Why didn't Krishna participate in Draupadi swayamvar? - Page 4

Originally posted by: proteeti

Look this is one thing I can't explain. 😅 Pari's being a kid is more reiterated in both mb and sb tho. I think for this theory to work we have to assume the 36 years this was a hyperbole. 🤷🏽‍♀️😆

Yes probably that was 36 months. Vyas ji is highly confused in timelines

Originally posted by: NoraSM

Question -

1 I have read answers and through this, it seems Krishna was Draupadi's friend before her Swayamvar, Is there a mention of this?

There's no such mention that I know of. 😳

2 Did Krishna really hold the influencial power in Panchal?

Not something that is mentioned. Although, you know if he got to make the Ps fight he could count on the Panchals. You could maybe consider this to be an indirect influence. :)

3 Why would Drupad wait for Pandavas and support them through a difficult war instead of marrying her daughter to current Crown Prince Duryodhana? The only reason Pandavas could go back was because they had Panchal backing them, if the only aim was uniting Panchal and Kurus which happened after years of war, one would marry Draupadi to Duryodhana and make her a queen right away, support Kurus against Pandavas who didn't have anything

Maybe Drupad was also looking for the Yadava+Kuru connection like ek teer do nishane.

Arjun was his key to that alliance. And probably that swayamvar was to snag the best or the second-best. Like, if Arjun failed to perform/turn up, Drupad would still get a formidable warrior up for an alliance (this is for why he didn't get her married to Dury straight away).

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

No judgement just a narration think on it

Call me crazy but this was my first impression when I read the abridged version way back in the day. There's nothing to support me if I say my opinion has changed. 😉

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

1- It isn't specifically mentioned that Draupadi and Krishna were friends from years, but it is implied in the Swayamwar itself

2- Krishna definitely didn't have influfencial powers in Panchal court but was definitely a dignitary and was personally great in manipulation

3--Pandavas were the first cousins of Krishna Balram, they would anyday expect more support from them. Aside I don't think intention was remove Duryodhan from contention, but they did want an alliance with someone talented enough, hence the competition, Duryodhan couldn't just an it

Waise I feel so awkward to think that Sahdev's mama tried to woo the girl who eventually Sahdev married (considering polygamy to be true)

1 Can you provide some link or words to hint towards this?

2 What I am trying to understand is that the way it is being mentioned here it seems Krishna actively participated in preparation of Swayamvar like Ladki wala and waited for Pandavas, instead of being one of the guests who attended the Swayamvar, I am just trying to understand the relationship he shared with Panchal and Draupadi

3 Krushna supporting Pandavas is understandable but if Drupad's aim was uniting Panchal with Kurus, I believe Duryodhana would be an easier option because Pandavas had nothing

The fact that abhimanyu was the heir apparent completely dismisses the fact that prativindhya was draupadi s son because had that been the case he would have definitely been the heir even if abhimanyu was older to him . Because panchals were more stronger ally than dwaraka and had right on the imperial throne as much as the kuru did but that is not the case so that kind of proves that upandavas were not Krishnaa s kids

Hence i don't think even if any of the upandavas survived they or any of the their progeny would have been crowned as heir apparent because they just did not belong to as influential as dwaraka.

Originally posted by: NoraSM

Then, how do we know that Krishna and Drupad knew pandavas are attending the Swayamvar?

Pandavas were already in panchal for Draupadi's swayamvar before Vyasa told them

They went to Ekchakra on Vyasa's instruction.

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m01/m01159.htm

They heard about the event and went to Panchal for the dakshina. Then, Vyasa comes back a 2nd time to meet them and tells them to participate.

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m01/m01172.htm

Realistically speaking, I don't believe Vyasa would've arranged a girl's groom without informing her family.

Realistically speaking, he couldn't have stopped Krishna or anyone else from participating unless he actually told them not to. Since Krishna was one potential person who could beat Arjuna, he would need to be told. Also, Krishna recognizing them is a giveaway. Talking strictly within limits of MBh and Harivamsa, Krishna INTRODUCED himself to Pandavas and Kunti AFTER swayamvara. Hence he couldn't have recognized them unless told to watch out for them. Moreover, since rumor was the 5 were dead, the fact Krishna knew they were alive confirms he either had his own spies or Vyasa told them.

Originally posted by: Eloquent

@divine - Draupadi is called to be incarnations of soooo many goddesses 🤣

Because she's wife of Pandavas, she's called incarnations of Sachi (Arjuna), Bharti (Bhima?), other godesses who's name I can't recall right now.

Then she's called "Sree" who is one expression of Goddess Lakshmi (not purna avatar as Sita was purna avatar of Lakshmi ji & hence equal to Rama/Vishnu)

Finally, she's also linked to Gauri-Parvati i.e. Draupadi is incarnation of Goddess Kaali due to her role in destruction of Kshatriya clan in kurukshetra. In this, Krishna-Draupadi cannot marry due to Shiva & Lakshmi.

Ab tum hi batao ki ek stree kya kya karegi...kis kis ka avatar banegi

In MBh, Panchali is called Sree or Lakshmi multiple times. I think Vyasa or Bheeshma refers to her as Saraswati once but that was clearly made as metaphor not as claim of being avatar. The other goddess claims are not from Mbh and were probably made by people uncomfortable with the idea of Sree being with someone other than Vishnu.

The Yadava domination theory is bunkus.

2 possibilities: Krishna was God or he wasn't.

If he were God, theory is nonsense for the obvious reason God wouldn't particularly care if one clan dominated or the other. If he did, he didn't need such elaborate schemes. One thought, and Yadavas would be the only ones left on earth.

If Krishna were not God:

1. At Panchali's swayamvara, the only thing he could've known is her and Yudhishtira's son would be king. Ie, if Panchal and he managed to get Hastinapuri to cooperate.

2. When Subhadraharan happened, let's assume Panchali was childless as she seemed to have been. Even then, Krishna couldn't have known she'd remain heirless for so long.

3. Once Subhadra had Abhimanyu, he WAS considered heir as we see in vanaparva.

4. There was no way Krishna could've known dice hall would happen.

5. Abhimanyu died, but there is no way Krishna knew Uttara's child would be a boy. The Ashwatthama massacre happened much earlier in Uttara's pregnancy. If the baby turned out to be a girl, the empire could potentially have gone to Babruvahana as he'd the only one left.

6. Krishna slaughters most of the Yadavas himself.

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

They went to Ekchakra on Vyasa's instruction.

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m01/m01159.htm

They heard about the event and went to Panchal for the dakshina. Then, Vyasa comes back a 2nd time to meet them and tells them to participate.

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m01/m01172.htm

Realistically speaking, I don't believe Vyasa would've arranged a girl's groom without informing her family.

Realistically speaking, he couldn't have stopped Krishna or anyone else from participating unless he actually told them not to. Since Krishna was one potential person who could beat Arjuna, he would need to be told. Also, Krishna recognizing them is a giveaway. Talking strictly within limits of MBh and Harivamsa, Krishna INTRODUCED himself of Pandavas and Kunti AFTER swayamvara. Hence he couldn't have recognized them unless told to watch out for them. Moreover, since rumor was the 5 were dead, the fact Krishna knew they were alive confirms he either had his own spies or Vyasa told them.

Arjun and Krushna were cousins, it's unlikely he didn't meet them before.

If you notice, they already knew about Swayamvar then Vyasa comes to talk only about Draupadi's past life, if you remove this still they were going to Panchal, then Arjun met someone who told him about Sage Dhaumya, That's when they thought they will win the Swayamvar and get the kingdom back, no mention of Draupadi's past life in these pages (Sorry if I missed it), Then they met Bhrahmans who were going to Swayamvar they told them about Swayamvar and said that there's a chance of Draupadi selecting one of them.

I am trying to understand that Drupad, Krushna, Vyasa, Pandavas everyone was involved in this plan, why go for Swayamvar? If the plan was Pandavas winning Swayamvar, why invite all these people who can potentially alter the chance of Pandavas who are dressed as Brahmans winning the Swayamvar? Didn't they leave everything upto destiny and none of the Kshatriya could win the Swayamvar ultimately they had to go for Brahmans? This is huge risk, why would one take this risk?

If you remove Vyasa's visit, (All he did was tell them about her past life and that 5 of them have to marry her, everything goes the same. It's not like it was Vyasa who told them about Swayamvar

Originally posted by: NoraSM

Arjun and Krushna were cousins, it's unlikely he didn't meet them before.

If you notice, they already knew about Swayamvar then Vyasa comes to talk only about Draupadi's past life, if you remove this still they were going to Panchal, then Arjun met someone who told him about Sage Dhaumya, That's when they thought they will win the Swayamvar and get the kingdom back, no mention of Draupadi's past life in these pages (Sorry if I missed it), Then they met Bhrahmans who were going to Swayamvar they told them about Swayamvar and said that there's a chance of Draupadi selecting one of them.

I am trying to understand that Drupad, Krushna, Vyasa, Pandavas everyone was involved in this plan, why go for Swayamvar? If the plan was Pandavas winning Swayamvar, why invite all these people who can potentially alter the chance of Pandavas who are dressed as Brahmans winning the Swayamvar? Didn't they leave everything upto destiny and none of the Kshatriya could win the Swayamvar ultimately they had to go for Brahmans? This is huge risk, why would one take this risk?

Not only arjuna all the even yudhishtra and bheem were his cousins ( if we don't mention the twins). Still krishna introduce himself to that - clearly they did not meet earlier.

Because pandavas were not chilling out in hastinapur waiting for wedding proposal. They were hiding from their murderers. Hence krishna and gang lured them with the Swamyvaar. And vyasa who ofcourse wanted yudhishtra on throne insisted then to go.