Why didn't Krishna participate in Draupadi swayamvar? - Page 7

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Chandogya Upanishad says Krishna had his education with Ghora Angirasa which adds an fascinating twist to the tale.

MBh states again and again Angirasa is Agni which makes Panchali's Agni origin very, very interesting 😆

Plus, the son Drupada wanted to kill Drona could only be a brahmana as kshatriyas could not kill brahmanas. So I'm inclined to think there is some truth to the possibility.

Devala's daughter being married to Drupada would've helped the adoption. Although if we go by Buddhist jatakas, Panchali was Devala's granddaughter (ie, a Yadava through her mother, Sannati). Then, Drupada killed Sannati's first husband (Kosala king) and married the pregnant woman. According to the jatakas, the older child, a son (Dhrishtadyumna presumably) was already born. ie, not twins.

K my head is spinning so Imma head out now and go watch some makhan chori. 😆

Wil return when this has been processed. 🥳

Originally posted by: proteeti

And one more thing I'm really curious now, what makes you say ke acc to SB Ps would be as old as Drupad? Doesn't that contradict with Drona being Drupad's classmate? 😳

Because if Pradyumna were Krishna's biological son, he was old enough to be a grandfather, say 40s, at the time of Panchali swayamvar. If Krishna and rjuna were of similar age, Yudhishtira would've been mid to late 40s.

@FP, emperor had final sway on which kingdoms did what, and Jarasandha was emperor at the time.

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Because if Pradyumna were Krishna's biological son, he was old enough to be a grandfather, say 40s, at the time of Panchali swayamvar. If Krishna and rjuna were of similar age, Yudhishtira would've been mid to late 40s.

@FP, emperor had final sway on which kingdoms did what, and Jarasandha was emperor at the time.

But was Jarasangh as an emperor more powerful than Hastinapur Naresh?? I think both the kingdoms were powerful at their side of the country. Plus Hastinapur was a kingdom for whose battle entire country got involved

They could have participated as alley maybe(like Pandyas or Madra did for Kauravas). Participating as vassal seems unlikely to me

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

But was Jarasangh as an emperor more powerful than Hastinapur Naresh?? I think both the kingdoms were powerful at their side of the country. Plus Hastinapur was a kingdom for whose battle entire country got involved

They could have participated as alley maybe(like Pandyas or Madra did for Kauravas). Participating as vassal seems unlikely to me

Yes. The details are in Krishna's talk with Yudhishtira. It's a few pages long.

Ok to summarise some few points which struck me reading this thread, on the human/political aspects:

1. To counteract Jarasandh's Empire, create a another potential Empire/emperor = Kuru/Panchala alliance (arguably Suyodhana is an easier bet here, but maybe not so easily swayed/influenced as Yudhisthira)

2. Later, usage of Bhima to defeat Jarasandh & collapse of Magadhan empire

3. Creation of Indraprastha empire (Pandavas Rajasuya yagna et al)

So Krishna as Kingmaker has achieved all he wanted by this point. Ofcourse no one could have predicted the later events such as Vastraharan. How does he go from that event? Politically speaking & from human sense (considering he was friends with Pandavas & supposedly best friend of Krishnaa).

Originally posted by: Eloquent

Ok to summarise some few points which struck me reading this thread, on the human/political aspects:

1. To counteract Jarasandh's Empire, create a another potential Empire/emperor = Kuru/Panchala alliance (arguably Suyodhana is an easier bet here, but maybe not so easily swayed/influenced as Yudhisthira)

2. Later, usage of Bhima to defeat Jarasandh & collapse of Magadhan empire

3. Creation of Indraprastha empire (Pandavas Rajasuya yagna et al)

So Krishna as Kingmaker has achieved all he wanted by this point. Ofcourse no one could have predicted the later events such as Vastraharan. How does he go from that event? Politically speaking & from human sense (considering he was friends with Pandavas & supposedly best friend of Krishnaa).

He probably hoped there would be peace and goodwill to all😆. Unfortunately, Suyodhana didn't let it happen. Also, there is a relatively modern saying, to find out what a man is like at his core, give him power. Most men can handle adversity, but few can handle power. Yudhishtira couldn't handle the power. Between the two Kaurava cousins, Krishna's plans were destroyed. No wonder he was furious enough to destroy the earth when he met the Pandavas in Kamyaka vana. No wonder Arjuna needed to calm him down. Then, they started from scratch.

Originally posted by: Eloquent

Ok to summarise some few points which struck me reading this thread, on the human/political aspects:

1. To counteract Jarasandh's Empire, create a another potential Empire/emperor = Kuru/Panchala alliance (arguably Suyodhana is an easier bet here, but maybe not so easily swayed/influenced as Yudhisthira)

2. Later, usage of Bhima to defeat Jarasandh & collapse of Magadhan empire

3. Creation of Indraprastha empire (Pandavas Rajasuya yagna et al)

So Krishna as Kingmaker has achieved all he wanted by this point. Ofcourse no one could have predicted the later events such as Vastraharan. How does he go from that event? Politically speaking & from human sense (considering he was friends with Pandavas & supposedly best friend of Krishnaa).

For the second point I think Suyodhan too could have defeated Jarasangh like Bheem did. He too was a powerful man. Although we can be sure

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Chandogya Upanishad says Krishna had his education with Ghora Angirasa which adds an fascinating twist to the tale.

MBh states again and again Angirasa is Agni which makes Panchali's Agni origin very, very interesting 😆

Plus, the son Drupada wanted to kill Drona could only be a brahmana as kshatriyas could not kill brahmanas. So I'm inclined to think there is some truth to the possibility.

Devala's daughter being married to Drupada would've helped the adoption. Although if we go by Buddhist jatakas, Panchali was Devala's granddaughter (ie, a Yadava through her mother, Sannati). Then, Drupada killed Sannati's first husband (Kosala king) and married the pregnant woman. According to the jatakas, the older child, a son (Dhrishtadyumna presumably) was already born. ie, not twins.

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Because if Pradyumna were Krishna's biological son, he was old enough to be a grandfather, say 40s, at the time of Panchali swayamvar. If Krishna and rjuna were of similar age, Yudhishtira would've been mid to late 40s.

@FP, emperor had final sway on which kingdoms did what, and Jarasandha was emperor at the time.

This is in fact very interesting. That would also suggest Drona wasn't much older than the Ps or Ks, probably just a few years?

Also, Drona and Garga were siblings?

And if Angirasa and Bharadwaja were siblings then Drupad and Drona were kinda cousins too right?

I think we need another topic for all of this! 🤪

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Yes probably that was 36 months. Vyas ji is highly confused in timelines

that means pandavas ruled only for 36 months before krishnas death and subsequently their death?

Originally posted by: proteeti

This is in fact very interesting. That would also suggest Drona wasn't much older than the Ps or Ks, probably just a few years?

Also, Drona and Garga were siblings?

And if Angirasa and Bharadwaja were siblings then Drupad and Drona were kinda cousins too right?

I think we need another topic for all of this! 🤪

Drona was 85 as per MBh. He was also married to Kripi, Shanthanu's adopted daughter who would be Bheeshma's generation. It is not probable Pandavas who were 2 generations down were of similar age to Drona unless Drona married a woman old enough to be his grandmother.

Also, we would have to believe Pandavas remained wifeless until their mid 40s while Krishna who was of similar age was a grandfather.

Bottom line: Bhagavatham's timeline is highly suspect.

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Angirasa was one of the saptarishis. Bharadwaja came much later IIRC?