Who do you think is main villian of Mahabharat - Page 14

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Eloquent thumbnail
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Posted: 5 years ago

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

The first war rule was first broken by the Pandavas. Striking on Bheeshm while being covered by Shikhandi and then attacking was no Dharma or within rules


Abhimanyu was a Maharathi. We have already discussed in another thread that a Maharathi fights a Maharathi if not then 12 Rathis or 6 DwiRathi as it might go. The people there were all junior designates. It was a ratio of 12:19 or something like that


Aside Chakravyu is supposed to be an all sided attack. A person who enters it has to be prepared for that. That's the reason it's considered dangerous and not everyone could break it. Their actions could have been considered wrong if they had such killing outside the Chakravyu


Abhimanyu Vadh is tragic but is shown as filled with treachery because that sells


@red - weren't Karna, Dronacharya et al fighting together against Abhimanyu?

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Posted: 5 years ago

Originally posted by: kantalaga_

Pitamah Bhishma only told them use a women infront of me .... When Arjun said no ... Bhishma told him use as "Dhal" coz in war everyone protect themselves ....he got "ichhamitru" bardan ... How they broke any rules ?



Dronacharya definitely broke rules coz 7 ppl attacked Abhimanyu ..

If someone tells that this Adharma way I could be defeated then that doesn't mean the Adhama ceases to be Adharma. Putting another warrior in your Rath and attacking from within isn't allowed

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Posted: 5 years ago

Originally posted by: Eloquent


@red - weren't Karna, Dronacharya et al fighting together against Abhimanyu?


We had that list, Karna was called a ArdhRathi by Bheeshm and Dronacharya was Ashtrathi none of them were Maharathis. We calculated the number came 17.5

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Posted: 5 years ago

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar


No Bheeshma didn't give up weapons. It's a myth propagated by modern shows.


He continued shooting at both Arjuna and Shikhandi until the moment he fell.

He didn't shoot at Shikhandi. He shot at others, not even at Arjun (no mention of him shooting back at Arjun after Shikhandin was placed in front of Arjun. He would not shoot at Shikhandi. That's the reason he was brought in front in the first place. Otherwise why was he needed? And as said, he didn't shoot.

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m06/m06119.htm

Frequently looking at Sikhandin the prince of the Panchalas with a laugh, he aimed not a single arrow at him, recollecting his femininity. On the other hand, he slew seven great car-warriors belonging to Drupada's division. Then confused cries of woe soon arose amongst the Matsyas, the Panchalas, and the Chedis, who were together rushing at that single hero.

Sanjaya said, "Sanjaya said, "Thus all the Pandavas, placing Sikhandin before them pierced Bhishma in that battle repeatedly surrounding him on all sides. And all the Srinjayas, uniting together, struck him with dreadful Sataghnis, and spiked maces, and battle-axes, and mallets, and short thick clubs, and bearded darts, and other missiles, and arrows furnished with golden wing, and darts and lances and kampanas; and with long shafts, and arrows furnished with heads shaped like the calf-tooth, and rockets. Thus afflicted by many, his coat of mail was pierced everywhere. But though pierced in every vital part, Bhishma felt no pain.

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m06/m06120.htm

1123225 thumbnail
Posted: 5 years ago

Originally posted by: CaptainSpark

He didn't shoot at Shikhandi. He shot at others, not even at Arjun (no mention of him shooting back at Arjun after Shikhandin was placed in front of Arjun. He would not shoot at Shikhandi. That's the reason he was brought in front in the first place. Otherwise why was he needed? And as said, he didn't shoot.

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m06/m06119.htm

Frequently looking at Sikhandin the prince of the Panchalas with a laugh, he aimed not a single arrow at him, recollecting his femininity. On the other hand, he slew seven great car-warriors belonging to Drupada's division. Then confused cries of woe soon arose amongst the Matsyas, the Panchalas, and the Chedis, who were together rushing at that single hero.

Sanjaya said, "Sanjaya said, "Thus all the Pandavas, placing Sikhandin before them pierced Bhishma in that battle repeatedly surrounding him on all sides. And all the Srinjayas, uniting together, struck him with dreadful Sataghnis, and spiked maces, and battle-axes, and mallets, and short thick clubs, and bearded darts, and other missiles, and arrows furnished with golden wing, and darts and lances and kampanas; and with long shafts, and arrows furnished with heads shaped like the calf-tooth, and rockets. Thus afflicted by many, his coat of mail was pierced everywhere. But though pierced in every vital part, Bhishma felt no pain.

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m06/m06120.htm


https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m06/m06120.htm


Then Bhishma, whose bows were thus cut off, excited with rage, and licking the corners of his mouth, took up a dart that was capable of riving a hill. In rage he hurled it at Phalguni's car


...


Having listened to these words of the celestials, Santanu's son Bhishma of great ascetic merit rushed out at Vibhatsu, even though he was then being pierced with sharp arrows capable of penetrating through every armour. Then Sikhandin, O king, excited with rage, struck the grandsire of the Bharatas in the chest with nine sharp arrows. The Kuru grandsire Bhishma, however, though struck by him in battle, thus, trembled not, O monarch, but remained unmoved like a mountain during an earthquake. Then Vibhatsu, drawing his bow Gandiva with a laugh, pierced the son of Ganga with five and twenty arrows. And once more, Dhananjaya, with great speed and excited with wrath struck him in every vital part with hundreds of arrows. Thus pierced by others, also with thousands of arrows, the mighty car-warrior Bhishma pierced those others in return with great speed


...


. Saying these words, Bhishma, the valiant son of Santanu, as if for the object of consuming the Pandavas, hurled a dart at Partha. Partha, however, caused that dart to drop down, cutting it into three fragments with three shafts, in the very sight, O Bharata, of all the Kuru heroes of thy army.

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Posted: 5 years ago

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar


https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m06/m06120.htm


Then Bhishma, whose bows were thus cut off, excited with rage, and licking the corners of his mouth, took up a dart that was capable of riving a hill. In rage he hurled it at Phalguni's car


...


Having listened to these words of the celestials, Santanu's son Bhishma of great ascetic merit rushed out at Vibhatsu, even though he was then being pierced with sharp arrows capable of penetrating through every armour. Then Sikhandin, O king, excited with rage, struck the grandsire of the Bharatas in the chest with nine sharp arrows. The Kuru grandsire Bhishma, however, though struck by him in battle, thus, trembled not, O monarch, but remained unmoved like a mountain during an earthquake. Then Vibhatsu, drawing his bow Gandiva with a laugh, pierced the son of Ganga with five and twenty arrows. And once more, Dhananjaya, with great speed and excited with wrath struck him in every vital part with hundreds of arrows. Thus pierced by others, also with thousands of arrows, the mighty car-warrior Bhishma pierced those others in return with great speed


...


. Saying these words, Bhishma, the valiant son of Santanu, as if for the object of consuming the Pandavas, hurled a dart at Partha. Partha, however, caused that dart to drop down, cutting it into three fragments with three shafts, in the very sight, O Bharata, of all the Kuru heroes of thy army.


@bold part says he didn't tremble, not shoot. As I quoted myself, he did fight back at others but not as Shikhandi, which was what the plan was. There's nothing wrong in him piercing others, he didn't shoot after Shikhandi was placed in front of Pandavas (ie Arjun), which I quoted.

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Posted: 5 years ago

Originally posted by: CaptainSpark


@bold part says he didn't tremble, not shoot. As I quoted myself, he did fight back at others but not as Shikhandi, which was what the plan was. There's nothing wrong in him piercing others, he didn't shoot after Shikhandi was placed in front of Pandavas (ie Arjun), which I quoted.


He did shoot at Arjuna and Arjuna's car. Since Shikhandi was in front, how would the arrows avoid him?😒

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Posted: 5 years ago

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar


He did shoot at Arjuna and Arjuna's car. Since Shikhandi was in front, how would the arrows avoid him?😒


Depends on whom he targetted at. He was a skilled warrior. He said he would not FIGHT a woman ie Shikhandi no??

Here I am citing again.


Sanjaya said, "Thus all the Pandavas, placing Sikhandin before them pierced Bhishma in that battle repeatedly surrounding him on all sides. And all the Srinjayas, uniting together, struck him with dreadful Sataghnis, and spiked maces, and battle-axes, and mallets, and short thick clubs, and bearded darts, and other missiles, and arrows furnished with golden wing, and darts and lances and kampanas; and with long shafts, and arrows furnished with heads shaped like the calf-tooth, and rockets. Thus afflicted by many, his coat of mail was pierced everywhere. But though pierced in every vital part, Bhishma felt no pain. On the other hand, he then seemed to his enemies to resemble in appearance the (all-destructive) fire that rises at the end of Yuga.


This is when he did not shoot back, this is when Shikhandi was placed. Before that, Arjun-Bhishma were fighting!

Edited by CaptainSpark - 5 years ago
1123225 thumbnail
Posted: 5 years ago

Originally posted by: CaptainSpark


Depends on whom he targetted at. He was a skilled warrior. He said he would not FIGHT a woman ie Shikhandi no??

Here I am citing again.


Sanjaya said, "Thus all the Pandavas, placing Sikhandin before them pierced Bhishma in that battle repeatedly surrounding him on all sides. And all the Srinjayas, uniting together, struck him with dreadful Sataghnis, and spiked maces, and battle-axes, and mallets, and short thick clubs, and bearded darts, and other missiles, and arrows furnished with golden wing, and darts and lances and kampanas; and with long shafts, and arrows furnished with heads shaped like the calf-tooth, and rockets. Thus afflicted by many, his coat of mail was pierced everywhere. But though pierced in every vital part, Bhishma felt no pain. On the other hand, he then seemed to his enemies to resemble in appearance the (all-destructive) fire that rises at the end of Yuga.


This is when he did not shoot back, this is when Shikhandi was placed. Before that, Arjun-Bhishma were fighting!


Ok. I don't know enough about archery to debate that 😆 though I continue to have my doubts.

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Posted: 5 years ago

Originally posted by: CaptainSpark


Depends on whom he targetted at. He was a skilled warrior. He said he would not FIGHT a woman ie Shikhandi no??

Here I am citing again.


Sanjaya said, "Thus all the Pandavas, placing Sikhandin before them pierced Bhishma in that battle repeatedly surrounding him on all sides. And all the Srinjayas, uniting together, struck him with dreadful Sataghnis, and spiked maces, and battle-axes, and mallets, and short thick clubs, and bearded darts, and other missiles, and arrows furnished with golden wing, and darts and lances and kampanas; and with long shafts, and arrows furnished with heads shaped like the calf-tooth, and rockets. Thus afflicted by many, his coat of mail was pierced everywhere. But though pierced in every vital part, Bhishma felt no pain. On the other hand, he then seemed to his enemies to resemble in appearance the (all-destructive) fire that rises at the end of Yuga.


This is when he did not shoot back, this is when Shikhandi was placed. Before that, Arjun-Bhishma were fighting!


Arjuna vs Bheeshma happened after that, it is weird how can they place Shikhandi before them and surround Bheeshma from all sides? 5 Pandavas and One Shikhandi surrounding Bheeshma from all sides


'Those mighty shafts, whetted on stone and furnished with golden wings, which the great car-warrior Sikhandin shot, quickly penetrated into Bhishma's body. Then the diadem-decked (Arjuna), excited with wrath, and placing Sikhandin ahead rushed at Bhishma and cut off the latter's bow


The above happened after the incident you have quoted, Here Arjuna placed Shikhandi before him and went to attacks Bheeshma


Thereupon mighty car-warriors, seven in number, viz., Drona and Kritavarman, and Jayadratha the ruler of the Sindhus, and Bhurisravas, and Sala, and Salya, and Bhagadatta could not brook that act of Arjuna. Inflamed with rage, they rushed at him. Indeed, those mighty car-warriors, invoking into existence celestial weapons, fell with great wrath upon that son of Pandu, and covered him with their arrows.


After Arjuna cut Bheeshma's bow, 7 warriors from Kuru side used celestial weapons on him and covered him with arrows, here other pandavas started protecting Arjuna, after this


Sikhandin, however, that foremost of car-warriors, protected by Arjun


Shikhandi wasn't a human shield, he was in his chariot



Then the son of Ganga took up another bow that was tougher. That even was cut off by Phalguni with three sharp shafts. Indeed, that chastiser of foes, viz., Arjuna, who was capable of drawing the bow with even his left hand, excited with rage, one after another, cut off all the bows that Bhishma took up. Then Bhishma, whose bows were thus cut off, excited with rage, and licking the corners of his mouth, took up a dart that was capable of riving a hill. In rage he hurled it at Phalguni's car


Bheeshma was attacking Arjuna but Arjuna cut his bows, Bheeshma wasn't fighting with Shikhandi who was on a different chariot, Bheeshma was ignoring him and Shikhandi didn't even do anything to him, it was Arjuna who cut his bow and dart, Bheeshma was in no way incapacitated by Shikhandi, he lost against Arjuna and he was fighting, then Arjuna moved closer


And striking Bhishma's chariot with ten arrows, Arjuna caused him to tremble. The son of Ganga then took up another bow that was stronger. Within, however, the twinkling of an eye, as soon, in fact, as it was taken up, Arjuna cut that bow also into three fragments with three broad-headed shafts. And thus the son of Pandu cut off in that battle even all the bows of Bhishma. After that, Bhishma the son of Santanu, no longer desired to battle with Arjuna. The latter,however, then pierced him with five and twenty arrows.



It was Arjuna who made Bheeshma surrender, he didn't put his weapon down for Shikhandi, he lost to Arjuna. Bheeshma was attacking Arjuna, Shikhandi's presence didn't stop him from using weapon on Arjuna, if Shikhandi had killed Bheeshma then it would have been a different matter

Edited by NoraSM - 5 years ago

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