Bhishma's Detachment Against the Dark Backdrop of Greed - Page 7

Here is link which tell anusasan parva is interpolation in epic

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m13/index.htm

@surabhi - My friend, quora can not be considered as a reliable source. Like others have told it here too that it is just an opinion site. For instance, I haven't read MB but I have listened to various stories related to it from my parents and grandparents and I can share that opinion as per the acquired knowledge. Even my parents and grandparents never read it, they must have listened it from their elders. But this does not mean that the information is correct. It is wiser to read MB if we want to get what exactly are mentioned in those texts.

Now I also believe that there is no authentic version of MB available as the final version with 100k shlokas was compiled during the Gupta age (4th century AD). Prior to that, it was Bharata with 24000 shlokas and even before that, it was Jaya which had only 8800 shlokas. So, a lot of omissions and additions must have gone through the present compilation. The major portion of the epic was compiled between 3rd century BCE and 3rd century CE. Where have I read this? In NCERT Ancient History book.

Mahabharata has gone through various ages and each age must have told it as per their contemporary belief system and accordingly a lot of add-subtract-edit must have gone through the process. So, no authentic Ved Vyasa version for me but yes, there can definitely be the most correct version which must have been compiled by historians and researchers. If you are really interested, I would humbly suggest you to do a bit research and select one good version and read it.

Originally posted by: surabhi01

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Okay, allow me to just quote whatever I can find from KMG's translation (I am also confirming the same from the Kaliprasanna version that I have).

The Asthta-Vasu incident is described in detail in Adi Parva -> Sambhava Parva -> Section 99-100.

"Daksha had a daughter known by the name of Surabhi, who, O bull of Bharata's race, for benefiting the world, brought forth, by her connection with Kasyapa, a daughter (Nandini) in the form of a cow. That foremost of all kine, Nandini, was the cow of plenty (capable of granting every desire). The virtuous son of Varuna obtained Nandini for his Homa rites. And Nandini, dwelling in that hermitage which was adored by Munis, roamed about fearlessly in those sacred and delightful woods.

"One day, O bull of Bharata's race, there came into those woods adored by the gods and celestial Rishis, the Vasus with Prithu at their head. And wandering there with their wives, they enjoyed themselves in those delightful woods and mountains. And as they wandered there, the slender-waisted wife of one of the Vasus, O thou of the prowess of Indra, saw in those woods Nandini, the cow of plenty. And seeing that cow possessing the wealth of all accomplishments, large eyes, full udders, fine tail, beautiful hoofs, and every other auspicious sign, and yielding much milk, she showed the animal to her husband Dyu. O thou of the prowess of the first of elephants, when Dyu was shown that cow, he began to admire her several qualities and addressing his wife, said, 'O black-eyed girl of fair thighs, this excellent cow belongeth to that Rishi whose is this delightful asylum. O slender-waisted one, that mortal who drinketh the sweet milk of this cow remaineth in unchanged youth for ten thousand years.' O best of monarchs, hearing this, the slender-waisted goddess of faultless features then addressed her lord of blazing splendour and said, 'There is on earth a friend of mine, Jitavati by name, possessed of great beauty and youth. She is the daughter of that god among men, the royal sage Usinara, endued with intelligence and devoted to truth. I desire to have this cow, O illustrious one, with her calf for that friend of mine. Therefore, O best of celestials, bring that cow so that my friend drinking of her milk may alone become on earth free from disease and decrepitude. O illustrious and blameless one, it behoveth thee to grant me this desire of mine. There is nothing that would be more agreeable to me.' On hearing these words of his wife, Dyu, moved by the desire of humouring her, stole that cow, aided by his brothers Prithu and the others. Indeed, Dyu, commanded by his lotus-eyed wife, did her bidding, forgetting at the moment the high ascetic merits of the Rishi who owned her. He did not think at the time that he was going to fall by committing the sin of stealing the cow.

"When the son of Varuna returned to his asylum in the evening with fruits he had collected, he beheld not the cow with her calf there. He began to search for them in the woods, but when the great ascetic of superior intelligence found not his cow on search, he saw by his ascetic vision that she had been stolen by the Vasus. His wrath was instantly kindled and he cursed the Vasus, saying, 'Because the Vasus have stolen my cow of sweet milk and handsome tail, therefore, shall they certainly be born on earth!'

"O thou bull of Bharata's race, the illustrious Rishi Apava thus cursed the Vasus in wrath. And having cursed them, the illustrious one set his heart once more on ascetic meditation. And after that Brahmarshi of great power and ascetic wealth had thus in wrath cursed the Vasus, the latter, O king, coming to know of it, speedily came into his asylum. And addressing the Rishi, O bull among kings, they endeavoured to pacify him. But they failed, O tiger among men, to obtain grace from Apava--that Rishi conversant, with all rules of virtue. The virtuous Apava, however, said, 'Ye Vasus, with Dhava and others, ye have been cursed by me. But ye shall be freed from my curse within a year of your birth among men. But he for whose deed ye have been cursed by me he, viz., Dyu, shall for his sinful act, have to dwell on earth for a length of time. I shall not make futile the words I have uttered in wrath. Dyu, though dwelling on Earth, shall not beget children. He shall, however, be virtuous and conversant with the scriptures. He shall be an obedient son to his father, but he shall have to abstain from the pleasure of female companionship.

Krishna and Bheeshma's conversation is located at the end of Anushaasana parva (section 167):

"Bhishma said, 'O holy one, O god of all gods, O thou that art worshipped by all the deities and Asuras, O thou that didst cover the three worlds with three steps of thine, salutations to thee, O wielder of the conch, the discus, and the mace! Thou art Vasudeva, thou art of golden body, thou art the one Purusha (or active agent), thou art the creator (of the universe), thou art of vast proportions. Thou art Jiva. Thou art subtle. Thou art the Supreme and eternal Soul. Do thou, O lotus-eyed one, rescue me, O foremost of all beings! Do thou, give me permission, O Krishna, to depart from this world, O thou that art Supreme felicity, O foremost of all beings! The sons of Pandu should ever be protected by thee. Thou art, indeed, already their sole refuge. Formerly, I spoke to the foolish Duryodhana of wicked understanding that thither is Righteousness where Krishna is, and that there is victory where Righteousness is. I further counselled him that relying on Vasudeva as his refuge, he should make peace with the Pandavas. Indeed, I repeatedly told him, 'This is the fittest time for thee to make peace! The foolish Duryodhana of wicked understanding, however, did not do my bidding. Having caused a great havoc on earth, at last, he himself laid down his life. Thee, O illustrious one, I know to be that ancient and best of Rishis who dwelt for many years in the company of Nara, in the retreat of Vadari. The celestial Rishi Narada told me this, as also Vyasa of austere penances. Even they have said unto me that. Thyself and Arjuna are the old Rishis Narayana and Nara born among men. Do thou, O Krishna, grant me leave, I shall cast off my body. Permitted by thee, I shall attain to the highest end!'

"Vasudeva said, 'I give thee leave, O Bhishma! Do thou, O king, attain to the status of the Vasus, O thou of great splendour, thou hast not been guilty of a single transgression in this world. O royal sage, thou art devoted to thy sire. Thou art, therefore, like a second Markandeya! It is for that reason that death depends upon thy pleasure even as thy slave expectant of reading thy pleasure!'

Apart from this, they also converse on and off throughout Anushaasana Parva. I agree that most people consider these as side/interpolated parvas but they contain a wealth of knowledge and stories. Vyaasa had promised to give us the Pancham Veda, one that would contain the teachings of all 4 Vedas, and hence, while reading the actual story of MB, it also is expected of one to go through these portions also, so as to understand the Dharma of Dwapara yuga.

And Uttara's womb: Sauptika Parva, section 16.

Yes, Ashwatthama did direct it towards all Pandava women, but Krishna saved only Parikshit. Exactly how he does that, is not mentioned in MB, but you can find it in Srimad Bhagavatham.

Vaishampayana said, "Understanding that that weapon was thrown (into the wombs of the Pandava women) by Drona's son of sinful deeds, Hrishikesha, with a cheerful heart, said these words unto him: ‘A certain brahmana of pious vows, beholding Virata's daughter who is now daughter-in-law to Arjuna, while she was at Upaplavya, said, "While the Kuru line will become extinct, a son will be born to thee. This thy son for that reason, will be called by the name of Parikshit." The words of that pious man shall become true: the Pandavas shall have a son called Parikshit. Unto Govinda, that foremost one of the Satvata race, while he was saying these words, Drona's son, filled with wrath, replied, saying, ‘This, O Keshava, that thou sayest from thy partiality for the Pandavas, shall not happen. O thou of eyes like lotus-petals, my words cannot but be fulfilled. Uplifted by me, this weapon of mine shall fall on the foetus that is in the womb of Virata's daughter, upon that foetus which thou, O Krishna, art desirous of protecting.'

The holy one [Krishna] said, "The fall of this mighty weapon will not be fruitless. The foetus will die. But being dead, it will live again and have a long life!

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The heroic Parikshit, attaining to age and a knowledge of the Vedas and the practice of pious vows, shall obtain all weapons from the son of Sharadvata. Having obtained a knowledge of all high weapons, and observant of all kshatriya duties, that righteous-souled king shall rule the earth for sixty years. More than this, that boy shall become the mighty-armed king of the Kurus, known by the name of Parikshit, before thy very eyes, O thou of wicked soul! Though burnt by the energy of thy weapon's fire, I shall revive him. O lowest of men, behold the energy of my austerities and my truth."

The Valmiki story I guess is a folklore.

How can we say it is quora is not reliable site

I have started visiting quora from last year but when I read answer it also told same thing from elder which I hearing from long time

Now quora says that Lord Krishna go to dwariika because he don't want aby loss in mathura due to jara sandh . Is this not correct by quora

Quora says yudhistar was Secretary of king during agyatvas is this answer is not correct

If u read first three any answer of quora it is mostly correct

I will like to say if u read answer of quora properly then u will find most of answer correct as match to epic and what elder are saying from long time

We can say it is not reliable site if it's content doesn't not match to Mahabharata book or elder

And quora is not opinion site. No one give opinion about character. No one is analysis character no one is judging character

It is just knowledge site which just answer the query

In other words we can say quora is help centre site not opinion site

When I check link of anusasan parva by kisar mohan Ganguly in sacred text website it's say that it's bhramanic story is interpolation and even Wikipedia say so

Moving in circles.

I don't how quora is opinion site

If u ask quora that who is chief minister of Delhi

It will simply say Arvind kejariwal . And nothing else

If u ask where is pamchavati

Quora will answer it is in nasik and nothing else

Anyway I have explain enough but still it not reliable site then let it be

For me it is reliable site because most of answer it's are correct

Originally posted by: surabhi01

When I check link of anusasan parva by kisar mohan Ganguly in sacred text website it's say that it's bhramanic story is interpolation and even Wikipedia say so

In MB, if you're willing to dig really deep, it's 90% interpolation. It started off with a cute little story of a was between some random brothers in Vedic India, and over time embellishments were made to make it more interesting. For a long, long time it was passed down orally, and was written down only in the medieval eras.

In this oral traditions, every teller of the story added/subtracted/interpolated their versions to suit their audiences. Pauranic kaal se hi behna saara TRP ka khel hai. 🥱

Yun toh, there's also a theory that even Draupadi's vastraharan is an interpolation. 7000 shlokas to 10,000 ain't a matter of joke hun. 😳

Concrete proof, we don't have but worldwide there's this story of one single war (all retraced back to the same span of 200 years i.e 1400-1200BCE), in the Eurasian continent which is 100% repeated in every book of every culture, including Western ones like Iliad, Odyssey etc. (Just like Noah's Arc and our Matsya Avatar) It is said, ke after was the Battle of Kurukshetra, none other that the 5 Pandavas and Krishna remained alive (and a few other inconsequential people, but woh saare lived in forests). So, who wrote the history then?

Pandavas wrote ONE version. This is Mahabharata. Now, the only people (of other kingdoms) who went back to their respective kingdoms were the royal jokers/poets. They all wrote and performed their own versions glorifying their own Kings. This is one explanation, of why we have so many different version across the world.

Nobody got it 100% right. In the current age, we only have the Gupta age manuscripts that have been translated by various scholars. Obviously there will be interpolations. We have to accept that, and generally try to figure out via logic, and one way of it is like, you read 5 versions and if something is same in like 3/5 versions, then you go with that.

Ab unless we manage to make a time machine, we ain't gettin nowhere right? 😆

Originally posted by: surabhi01

How can we say it is quora is not reliable site

I have started visiting quora from last year but when I read answer it also told same thing from elder which I hearing from long time

Now quora says that Lord Krishna go to dwariika because he don't want aby loss in mathura due to jara sandh . Is this not correct by quora

Quora says yudhistar was Secretary of king during agyatvas is this answer is not correct

If u read first three any answer of quora it is mostly correct

I will like to say if u read answer of quora properly then u will find most of answer correct as match to epic and what elder are saying from long time

We can say it is not reliable site if it's content doesn't not match to Mahabharata book or elder

And quora is not opinion site. No one give opinion about character. No one is analysis character no one is judging character

It is just knowledge site which just answer the query

In other words we can say quora is help centre site not opinion site

Quora has many answers which are wrong. For example if I hadn't read Ramayana I would have considered Lakshman Rekha correct and would have mentioned it in Quora, there is no mechanism involved in Quora to have remove it. I have heard it from my elders probably you would have heard it too, hence there is a huge chance that many including you would accept it to be the truth although this instance doesn't find its mention in Ramayana

As we already said the 73 births narrative you said might have been a folklore in any region, so the people of that region while answering the question would have mentioned it or might be someone would have read a blog which mentions about it and would have just copy pasted it there.

Others might simply mention the Vasu thing and some might mention the thing that by mistake he threw the snake on thorns (the answers I gave you) for the same question. Definitely not all of them could be true

There are multiple folklores in the country and people think that it's how the epic narrates

No one here is denying that there could be such folklore mentioning things you said. No one can stop anyone from responding to a question with a folklore on Quora.

We were asking if it's written in some of the books like Mahabharata the epic, Bhagwat Puran or may be any other book, if not then that isn't completely reliable, but just one of the many folklores.

There is for example a folklore about Draupadi having love for Karna which was exhibited to the world due to the Jambulphal episode. Devdutt Patnaik has mentioned this in his book Jaya. You might find people narrating that instance on Quora.

Like you have one person saying in the below link

https://www.quora.com/Mahabharata-Hindu-epic-What-does-Draupadis-marriage-to-all-5-pandavas-represent-What-is-the-underlying-symbolism/answers/48667178?ch=10&share=17545825&srid=xzCH

There are multiple such responses in Quora.

Coming to why it's an opinion site, the reason you didn't find anyone judging the characters or expressing their views was simply that you searched for objective questions which needed to have a definitive answer (not necessarily the correct answer mind it) they would collapse all the judgemental or unrelated answer. If for example the question asked was how Parikshit was born and one responds that Ashwathama as a person was very bad person, anyone even who has zero knowledge of epics will understand that it's a wrong answer and that answer could be collapsed, but if someone says that Parikshit was born by Niyog between Uttara and say some XYZ person after having knowledge from some folklore then that can not be removed.

If you search for subjective questions like was Draupadi of good character or not, or is love marriage better than arrange marriage or maybe why Pakistanis hate Hindus, you would find opinion responses

Originally posted by: proteeti

In MB, if you're willing to dig really deep, it's 90% interpolation. It started off with a cute little story of a was between some random brothers in Vedic India, and over time embellishments were made to make it more interesting. For a long, long time it was passed down orally, and was written down only in the medieval eras.

In this oral traditions, every teller of the story added/subtracted/interpolated their versions to suit their audiences. Pauranic kaal se hi behna saara TRP ka khel hai. 🥱

Yun toh, there's also a theory that even Draupadi's vastraharan is an interpolation. 7000 shlokas to 10,000 ain't a matter of joke hun. 😳

Concrete proof, we don't have but worldwide there's this story of one single war (all retraced back to the same span of 200 years i.e 1400-1200BCE), in the Eurasian continent which is 100% repeated in every book of every culture, including Western ones like Iliad, Odyssey etc. (Just like Noah's Arc and our Matsya Avatar) It is said, ke after was the Battle of Kurukshetra, none other that the 5 Pandavas and Krishna remained alive (and a few other inconsequential people, but woh saare lived in forests). So, who wrote the history then?

Pandavas wrote ONE version. This is Mahabharata. Now, the only people (of other kingdoms) who went back to their respective kingdoms were the royal jokers/poets. They all wrote and performed their own versions glorifying their own Kings. This is one explanation, of why we have so many different version across the world.

Nobody got it 100% right. In the current age, we only have the Gupta age manuscripts that have been translated by various scholars. Obviously there will be interpolations. We have to accept that, and generally try to figure out via logic, and one way of it is like, you read 5 versions and if something is same in like 3/5 versions, then you go with that.

Ab unless we manage to make a time machine, we ain't gettin nowhere right? 😆

Hey is Illiad or Oddessy also similar to Mahabharata storewise?

Am asking this because I always had this doubt that if Mahabharata is actually history and was such a great war as demonstrated with the entire world coming in, then why didn't any other civilization mention it in their records.

Egyptians were good at record keeping they also maintained a record about who ascended to the throne in Mesopotamia or elsewhere so how could they have missed such a big happening which engulfed the whole world