Humsafar Discussion thread-2

TheRager

@TheRager

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47

+ 4

Posted: 10 years ago

#971

Originally posted by: reviewmovies

Well taking your explanation literally .. this maybe part of the reason .. (I could be wrong also):

For a brother and sister - the sister would necessarily have married a different "gotra" - thus making her children a different "gotra" than herself (and her brother) - in this case the children of brother-sister - would have different gotra from each other.

While for a brother and brother - since both are same "gotra" - their children would be same "gotra" (taking it from the father's line) - and thus would not be able to marry.

For a sister - sister - each would have married a different "gotra" (than her self) - however the husbands of these two sisters may not have different "gotra" (for example they may be brothers) - so perhaps there is no guarantee that they are different gotras. So here you would have to examine the gotras (to see if they are different) of the husbands of the two sisters. Perhaps if they ARE different - THEN the children can marry (?) - or maybe it is considered simpler to just avoid for these situations (?)

TBH I have no clue about the bold bit.

Anyways the marriage between Asher and Khirad shown in HS is acceptable in someHindu communities in India too. Many such communities would call it an ideal match.

But Hinduism is also very diverse. In certain other communities such cousin marriages are arent acceptable.

Edited by RockChicGirl - 10 years ago

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reviewmovies

@reviewmovies

Explorer

5

Posted: 10 years ago

#972

Originally posted by: ..-Raindrops-..
Mahira
November 5, 2014 at 7:00 PM
Hello my friends and SZ,
If it wasn't for nostalgia, we'd all be so much happier :)Anything that is even a day older seems better.. and maybe in a lot of cases it probably is. I have heard this discussion everywhere - online, sets, make up rooms, meetings etc. And most of the time my nostrils are flaring while having this argument.
Since we are talking about the dramas of today, let us also talk about the audience and business of this industry today. We have over 15 entertainment channels(not sure of the exact number) on TV today (compared to the one channel that showed Tanhayian in the 80s). We have to fill up hours and hours of programming. Today, more than anything this Industry has become a huge business - a profitable one at that. Actors, directors, writers all seem to be getting into production. This is great - more producers, more money, more job opportunities in this field etc. Only thing - Can art and business go hand in hand? (that is actually the topic what we should debate about).
Our audience today (world over) wants instant gratification, instant pleasure, instant kick, instant pain and instant relief. We are the I-pad generation, even our parents are adapting to that. This is precisely why we find a 2hr movie a drag' or too long', even though just a few years back we were watching 3 hr long films. Our patience is decreasing and thats just the way it is.
Sorry, I'm going on about this. Point is the more the market expands, the more demand for the product. Which means many more writers, actors, directors, technicians will be coming on board to make sure the supply is ample. Is every writer expected to be an Umera Ahmed? Or every director a Mehreen Jabbar? ( To name a few). This just isn't possible. Not here, not anywhere.
There is no denying that there will be an influx of repetitive formula shows but this how it is world over. One show does well and the hangover continues. Trust me its extremely frustrating for me as an actor too. But this is the process. Soon and as always the good will shine (even in the bad products).
I am not standing up for the bad stuff on TV, but I am standing up for the good and great stuff on TV.
Love,
Mahira Khan.
p.s Lets be patient, just a little- even with the good serials :)

Mahira posted this on a blog

Interesting that the actors too feel HS was an exception (a "haseen combination of events"). As has earlier been quoted for FK/MK in previous posts as well. That is "they don't know what happened". Especially telling for me (and sort of a slap on the face of director Sarmad Khoosat) is that he was UNABLE to see the chemistry while filming - and only in editing did he notice that (and then tell Mahira Khan etc.). I wonder if that is something that happens often in direction - maybe it does.

FK saying that 60% of the dialogue was changed is also telling - though is not any direct indication that it was the actors doing the innovation in dialogue to make it pressing/ immediate (or fitting to their own voice).

However I wonder if when actors say some combination of things happened - if they understand what was it about HS/ZGH that worked - some have been quoted as saying they still don't understand. Maybe they do - but are unwilling to blame one or the other director etc.

Maybe they have cracked the puzzle - and FK and company want to make a movie having understood the principles of what works (or at least worked in HS/ZGH) - whether that is repeatable is another question - or whether it will be spoiled at the altar of making Maula Jutt (which I have said may have been responsible for decline of punjabi film industry - as they abandoned all variety they may have been doing in whatever way - and all woundup making Maula Jutt again and again for 20 years after that - first featuring Sultan Rahi/Mustafa Qureshi as hero/villain - and then Shaan etc.).

Maybe the actors know but don't want to say - for that there should be a trade industry publication which would "leak" this info - about what made HS/ZGH etc. click. But the industry isn't big enough in pak to have a publication industry around it.

Perhaps in india there will be some reflection about what made HS/ZGH succeed.

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Raindrops.

@Raindrops.

Rocker

26

Posted: 10 years ago

#973

Originally posted by: reviewmovies

Interesting that the actors too feel HS was an exception (a "haseen combination of events"). As has earlier been quoted for FK/MK in previous posts as well. That is "they don't know what happened". Especially telling for me (and sort of a slap on the face of director Sarmad Khoosat) is that he was UNABLE to see the chemistry while filming - and only in editing did he notice that (and then tell Mahira Khan etc.). I wonder if that is something that happens often in direction - maybe it does.

FK saying that 60% of the dialogue was changed is also telling - though is not any direct indication that it was the actors doing the innovation in dialogue to make it pressing/ immediate (or fitting to their own voice).

However I wonder if when actors say some combination of things happened - if they understand what was it about HS/ZGH that worked - some have been quoted as saying they still don't understand. Maybe they do - but are unwilling to blame one or the other director etc.

Maybe they have cracked the puzzle - and FK and company want to make a movie having understood the principles of what works (or at least worked in HS/ZGH) - whether that is repeatable is another question - or whether it will be spoiled at the altar of making Maula Jutt (which I have said may have been responsible for decline of punjabi film industry - as they abandoned all variety they may have been doing in whatever way - and all woundup making Maula Jutt again and again for 20 years after that - first featuring Sultan Rahi/Mustafa Qureshi as hero/villain - and then Shaan etc.).

Maybe the actors know but don't want to say - for that there should be a trade industry publication which would "leak" this info - about what made HS/ZGH etc. click. But the industry isn't big enough in pak to have a publication industry around it.

Perhaps in india there will be some reflection about what made HS/ZGH succeed.

For a show to work a lot of things have to click and I don't think there is any secret formula for success, perhaps like FK said these were more character driven stories and kind of make the character stand out, a lot of times stories have been brilliant as in the plot is excellent but one really doesn't feel for the characters as passionately. Similar example can be taken about Pyaray Afzal like they extended it for 10 episodes and story was dragged but characters and dialogues were driving everyone crazy and that is why despite many loop holes Pyaray Afzal is an iconic character

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reviewmovies

@reviewmovies

Explorer

5

Posted: 10 years ago

#974

Originally posted by: kinjalshahshah

And he did behave like that.."oh mama i m in fear fro my life from the long arm of the law" marriage here😆

That is what I mean - in terms of that it was not an earth-shattering big deal for him. He was like "sure" (and thinking I'll explain to Sara later). Instead of "screw this setup - what the hell !!??" - after all even as an obedient son you have limits. Marrying Khirad did not seem to have crossed those limits (of absurdity - "you want me to marry .. her ?"). Perhaps the writer was subconsciously telegraphing that Asher may have liked Khirad from the get go (i.e. a milder version of love at first sight - let's call it "acceptability at first sight").

In Episode 4 - the first attempt to start a conversation with Khirad - when he comes in to watch TV - as she is reading a magazine. And he asks "do you want coffee" - and she says ok - then he kind of bluntly says (as if it is the woman's job) - "go to kitchen and ask servant to make it etc." That was a bit rude - but I just thought now that maybe that was expected from the age difference thing in the novel. Or I was half expecting him to say that "I did that only to get you to start moving" - and then HE offers to make her coffee with his own hands (hey maybe I can start making romantic dialogue !)

I wonder if the age thing had been enhanced slightly - if it would have made a big difference to the play - would have made him ordering her to get up and get coffee seem less cruel perhaps - but then it may have created other issues for author or audience acceptability if Asher had a 5 foot beard etc. (minor joke here - please forgive).

Although these comments - I am only speaking for Episode 1-4 - and this may be overturned by later events. By the way in the videos I watched I did not catch the scene (which appears in the recap part in Episode 5 - but I couldn't find it in earlier episodes - so maybe was cut in these particular video versions) - where Khirad overhears Asher talking to his friend on phone - that what can I do I was forced. Though I do not see even this as negative (though it would have been taken negatively by a sensitive Khirad) - but by itself this is just male talk - and not necessarily him meaning it all that seriously (more as language to assuage the curiosity of a friend - rather than what he seriously thinks) - this is why perhaps listening to people talking to others or on the phone is not a terribly good representative of what they are thinking.

Coming to the Asher - Sara equation ..

I should add that I don't think Asher confiding in his cousin Sara - is perhaps THAT much of a mistake - after all we all make mistakes - saying something to someone we should not have said (and those people run away with it "listen he has just said this") type of thing.

So Asher could perhaps be excused - and it may be considered as a valid plot device. But even HERE you can see that the author DID cover her bases - i.e. EVEN the reason for Sara/Zarina/Farida IS created - i.e. Asher is shown to be unhappy (that much would be acceptable) - but ALSO to have shared it with the "other side" (the trio). This is perhaps the "tragic flaw" that was required to make the story plausible - and it is perhaps no wonder that people feel the story flows naturally - or i.e. everything has it's place.

Sure people make mistakes - but in this play - the way they make the mistake is shown to be responsible for future mistakes by others - and thus confirming my suggestion earlier that the play does NOT make villians of people - but by their mistakes and the dynamics are what drive the play (where a misspoken statement by one can be misinterpreted or perhaps even interpreted correctly for now - that "oh Asher really wants to get out of this marriage - I Sara will help" - into a sort of unintentional train wreck from all sides. And this is perhaps what makes the play special - things happen for a reason - and even the villains seem helpless pawns of circumstances.

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kinjalshahshah

@kinjalshahshah

Dazzler

22

Posted: 10 years ago

#975

Originally posted by: ..-Raindrops-..
Mahira
November 5, 2014 at 7:00 PM
Hello my friends and SZ,
If it wasn't for nostalgia, we'd all be so much happier :)Anything that is even a day older seems better.. and maybe in a lot of cases it probably is. I have heard this discussion everywhere - online, sets, make up rooms, meetings etc. And most of the time my nostrils are flaring while having this argument.
Since we are talking about the dramas of today, let us also talk about the audience and business of this industry today. We have over 15 entertainment channels(not sure of the exact number) on TV today (compared to the one channel that showed Tanhayian in the 80s). We have to fill up hours and hours of programming. Today, more than anything this Industry has become a huge business - a profitable one at that. Actors, directors, writers all seem to be getting into production. This is great - more producers, more money, more job opportunities in this field etc. Only thing - Can art and business go hand in hand? (that is actually the topic what we should debate about).
Our audience today (world over) wants instant gratification, instant pleasure, instant kick, instant pain and instant relief. We are the I-pad generation, even our parents are adapting to that. This is precisely why we find a 2hr movie a drag' or too long', even though just a few years back we were watching 3 hr long films. Our patience is decreasing and thats just the way it is.
Sorry, I'm going on about this. Point is the more the market expands, the more demand for the product. Which means many more writers, actors, directors, technicians will be coming on board to make sure the supply is ample. Is every writer expected to be an Umera Ahmed? Or every director a Mehreen Jabbar? ( To name a few). This just isn't possible. Not here, not anywhere.
There is no denying that there will be an influx of repetitive formula shows but this how it is world over. One show does well and the hangover continues. Trust me its extremely frustrating for me as an actor too. But this is the process. Soon and as always the good will shine (even in the bad products).
I am not standing up for the bad stuff on TV, but I am standing up for the good and great stuff on TV.
Love,
Mahira Khan.
p.s Lets be patient, just a little- even with the good serials :)

Mahira posted this on a blog

Thats a very interesting and honest post..I agree on her view that viewers more than willing to give chance jump on the comparing business at the same time i agree with her last line.

Also viewers demands and deserves quality so even if a story is slow but if manages to connect with viewers it clicks and works..now making and njoying any art piece is as different as two sides of same coin. An artist (entire team involved in a show) might find their product worth every penny/time invested but it might not be the case with viewers coz everyone has diff perspective to view/gauge..now its true a honest attempt wud be received well but not the thumb rule always...is thr is something missing, it wud falter..

I agree patience is required but its a virtue not everyone can exercise and i believe only yogis hav that😃

In addition from personal exp- viewers often give chance to even crappiest of shows/film for their favs in expectation that it wud turn something good..if left disappointed a hard core fan often find justifying it and again expecting the next project wud be better..this continues until it hits a saturation so invention is necessary even for those best of the best artists who every one thinks cant be replaced..

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aman-ki-asha

@aman-ki-asha

Beginner

1

Posted: 10 years ago

#976

[

Interesting that the actors too feel HS was an exception (a "haseen combination of events"). As has earlier been quoted for FK/MK in previous posts as well. That is "they don't know what happened". Especially telling for me (and sort of a slap on the face of director Sarmad Khoosat) is that he was UNABLE to see the chemistry while filming - and only in editing did he notice that (and then tell Mahira Khan etc.). I wonder if that is something that happens often in direction - maybe it does.

FK saying that 60% of the dialogue was changed is also telling - though is not any direct indication that it was the actors doing the innovation in dialogue to make it pressing/ immediate (or fitting to their own voice).

However I wonder if when actors say some combination of things happened - if they understand what was it about HS/ZGH that worked - some have been quoted as saying they still don't understand. Maybe they do - but are unwilling to blame one or the other director etc.

Maybe they have cracked the puzzle - and FK and company want to make a movie having understood the principles of what works (or at least worked in HS/ZGH) - whether that is repeatable is another question - or whether it will be spoiled at the altar of making Maula Jutt (which I have said may have been responsible for decline of punjabi film industry - as they abandoned all variety they may have been doing in whatever way - and all woundup making Maula Jutt again and again for 20 years after that - first featuring Sultan Rahi/Mustafa Qureshi as hero/villain - and then Shaan etc.).

Maybe the actors know but don't want to say - for that there should be a trade industry publication which would "leak" this info - about what made HS/ZGH etc. click. But the industry isn't big enough in pak to have a publication industry around it.

Perhaps in india there will be some reflection about what made HS/ZGH succeed.

Undoubtedly there will be analysis here in India. And then for the next year we will have HS lookalike productions which will soon abandon the original path and drag on for 2 years, disgusting everyone. Production houses are typically ad-driven and if a formula works, there is no one better than us at killing the goose who laid the golden egg.

Don't have any faith from our television industry. But yes the film industry definitely will be benefited. I agree with you that this is actually a game-changer. The ad - revenues that Zee zindagi is presently commanding is growing. I believe that they want that there should be somethin with Fawad Khan running every week on television. They are not featuring Pak shows in the TRP so you cant measure it objectively but Zee Tv trp are thru the roof only because of HS, otherwise Colors with Salman Khan and Bigg Boss shld have been riding it out now.

I really think Pakistani directors and actors should work in India. Its impossible for the fledgling industry there to have production values and professionalism as is here. An actor's shelf0life is rather limited and they should seize the day now. The buzz around Ali Zafar's Kill Dil is great and he is the first to benefit by the interest in Pak actors here

On a related note FK should not go for Anil Kapoor's production house but work with the real biggies like Ali Zafar has done. they showcase things much better besides paying very well. FK should definitely move out of his comfort zone with Sonam Kapoor because they are not A-listers, either as producers or actors

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crazy4fawad

@crazy4fawad

Voyager

19

Posted: 10 years ago

#977

Todays episode!! I do not have words!! I doubt if I have seen anything better than this on TV!

😭😭😭😭 total heart wrenching!

and awesome work , FK n MK and the entire team! FK has totally totally nailed it!!

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Natz

@natz

Rocker

26

Posted: 10 years ago

#978

The ending..where Khirad walks away from Asher and covers her head with her dupatta, that's so powerful!

Asher - the character, was so weak and offensive today. In that moment when he's in the park with Khirad and veers between anger & desperation to get her back - I was surprised that he didn't ask her/ beg her even to explain. At no point does he ask her - or even her shake her senseless to tell him her side of the story. The anger has subsidised now - or even if it hasn't his love for her has triumphed because he's willing to take her back. Why doesn't he get her to talk then?

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pinkeye

@pinkeye

Stunner

35

+ 2

Posted: 10 years ago

#979

Originally posted by: natz
The ending..where Khirad walks away from Asher and covers her head with her dupatta, that's so powerful!
Asher - the character, was so weak and offensive today. In that moment when he's in the park with Khirad and veers between anger & desperation to get her back - I was surprised that he didn't ask her/ beg her even to explain. At no point does he ask her - or even her shake her senseless to tell him her side of the story. The anger has subsidised now - or even if it hasn't his love for her has triumphed because he's willing to take her back. Why doesn't he get her to talk then?

I guess he was a confused persona and it was his ego which prevented him asking so. Having said that I will also say that indirectly he did ask. He asked the reason why khirad do not want to start the life again. He said - wajah? So may be, it was his way asking for explanation which is pointkess imo after what has happend and I am glad khirad chose sheer silence to snub him.he desrved any reasonings as he had already concluded what he thought true and convenient for his broken heart.

He even did not ask for forgiveness too in true manner unlike the novel I suppose.

Edited by pinkeye - 10 years ago

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Natz

@natz

Rocker

26

Posted: 10 years ago

#980

Originally posted by: pinkeye

I guess he was a confused persona and it was his ego which prevented him asking so. Having said that I will also say that indirectly he did ask. He asked the reason why khirad do not want to start the life again. He said - wajah? So may be, it was his way asking for explanation which is pointkess imo after what has happend and I am glad khirad chose sheer silence to snub him.he desrved any reasonings as he had already concluded what he thought true and convenient for his broken heart.

He even did not ask for forgiveness too in true manner unlike the novel I suppose.

That's the thing. I get the ego and everything. I wouldn't have complained had he gone about business as usual. The fact that he's willing to take her in puts a hit on the ego - pathetic stuff really, that's when he should be man enough to have started the conversation with "why did you do it?" if he couldn't have started it with "what happened?" which would've been ideal.

What he did instead was, accuse her - tell her she's wronged him and ask "why the betrayal?" which is different and justifies K's silence and sarcastic smile and the reply "mein aapko wajah batane ki paband nahi"

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