SKR-Of loops and symbolisms#5: Hard way and Smart Way : P.88

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1087354

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Posted: 9 years ago

#541

1 September 2016

Kaikesi meets Ram, and she changes. The mother of the great Kumbhakaran an Ravan finally accepts that her Vibhishan is also great. Kumbhakaran symbolizes the fear, even though it is large, the essence of it is mistakes, that Kaikesi did. Ravan is the ego, that needs to be killed to help the being, otherwise it becomes the biggest enemy. And Vibhishan is the knowledge, that can be on both Adharma and Dharma's side, but when it chooses Dharma, then it benefits the whole world. And Kaikesi is the mother of fear, ego, and knowledge. Such contrasting entities come from one thing. And that is the mind. When the mind is astray because of feelings, such as revenge and ambition, it gives birth to fear and ego. Bad comes from bad. But, what about Vibhishan. He comes from the mind, but is different from all of the others, for knowledge is knowledge. It is never bad or good, but it can be used by bad or good. Vibhishan is used by Lanka for years, becoming the cause of all of their prosperity and safety, along with Mandodari. But, when it is shunned, it harms the shunner. And benefits the accepter. The mind becomes angry with itself for shunning knowledge, so its ego and fear both increase, two things that never leave each other. The body, Sita, tries to resist, for it is bearing the brunt of the mind's actions, but can anything happen. The mind is the control of body, and it is trapped. But, the soul isn't. The soul is controlled by God, not the material world. And it can only harness the mind. And the mind finally calms down, and the being is on its way towards salvation.

While on one end Kaikesi is meeting Ram, Shurpanakha meets Sita in the Ashoka Vatika. The ever moving air returns to the Earth. She keeps on moving in a cycle- Lanka to the forest and back again. Just like the land and sea breeze. When the Sun, Ravan, is present, Surpanakha can move wherever she wants, and gets attracted to the Sky or Ram. With the power of Ravan's given freedom, she rises, but can't meet Ram. Because gravity of the Earth pulls her back. No matter how much she tries, she can not meet with Ram. So she cools down for sometime and reaches Lanka. She stays there and tells her problem, and waits until the Sun dries up the Earth. But, the Sun's heated anger makes her flee, and she returns back to land, and disappears from the Sun's view. When the Sun sets, she returns to Lanka at the seashore, but is accepted by no one. She is only accepted by the Earth, but the wind doesn't, and it keeps on having a back and forth life. This back and forth nature of the wind is necessary for the transportation of things throughout the world, and water is the same. But, there is one difference. Water, when accepted by water accepts the holder also, but wind doesn't. That is why Surpanakha is attributed to wind and Urmila is attributed to water. Dharma is only accepted when you accepted, but Adharma can come and go, without acceptance from wither side.

The theme of the episode is convincing. Ram tries to convince Kaikesi to become calm, and she complies. But, Mandodari and Sulochana fail to convince Surpanakha to forgo her hatred. What was the difference? Ram was quiet and attacked the emotions of Kaikesi, while Mandodari was loud and kept on telling Surpanakha to think and calm down. We need to walk our talk, for our behavior is the biggest teacher, not the words. Mandodari was anxious and frenzied, and she was telling Surpanakha to calm down? That won't happen. But Ram became Kaikesi, understood her problem, and behaved the way he spoke. It was effective. A great modern example of this is Mahatma Gandhi. A woman asked him to tell her son to avoid salt because the doctor had forbid it. He said come after a week. She did, and Mahatma Gandhi told the kid, and everything was well. But, the lady was curious that why did Gandhi take one week to say one sentence. He said that it took one week to get rid of salt from his own diet! The words of wisdom only are preserved when the speaker preserves them himself.

Edited by shabari14 - 9 years ago

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1087354

Hibernated

Posted: 9 years ago

#542

2 September 2016

Sita and Ram finally meet, after months of pain and struggle. But, one thing that is reassuring is that they got a glimpse of each other beforehand, when imposters came in front of them. When Ravan comes in front of Sita as Ram, he had a beard. But, now Ram has no hair. The Earth and the Sky are said to never be destined to meet, they are separated always. And that separation is emphasized by a layer of grass, the Earth's hair. The grass grows and is there only because of the Sun, Lankesh, and air, Surpanakha. When the Sun starts taking credit for boosting the fertility of the Earth, he is wrong and that is clear. The Earth is fertile no matter what, if no grass grow, humans are still sustained. The other factors of the environment make the Earth seem infertile. And that is why Ravan is identified. But, now Ram arrives. The grass is removed and the Earth and Sky meet, seemingly. But, the Sun is still there- Ravan in the form of the Raghukul traditions. And the Earth, even though achieving her love, is dried up by the fire and destruction that Ravan brings into her life. And unless Ram's tears of regret, sorrow, and happiness fall on her like rain, she will continue to burn in the literal and figurative fire. But, does only one shower of rain help?

Vibhishan is crowned king after, but Ram is a king because of the people's consent. What made this difference? To predict the future, we have to look into the past. And Ram and Vibhishan's pasts tell a lot. Ram and Vibhishan both revolted the king of the state, but with different methods. Vibhishan always showed his disapproval to Ravan's methods, and his final contradiction banishes him from Lanka. On the other hand, Ram first tries to understand what makes the people believe and carry out the sacrifice, and then states his views in accordance to that. He first follows the current, and when there is a gap, he swims out and carries others to safety. Whenever something contradicts our thoughts or our set of values, we straight away contradict it, making a huge fuss along the way. But, you should first understand why people think that is right and base your arguments from there. Nature and geometry have one similarity, there is never one right answer. Instead, many right answers support an idea. Like that, a wrong and a right also support a claim. Without sadness, there is no happiness. Without day, there is no night. Opposites don't just attract, they also support. And every opposite pair combined makes up the basis of our universe.

The theme of this episode is feelings. Vibhishan, with a feeling of peace and acceptance, takes the throne of Lanka. Ram, with a feeling of regret and helplessness, says painful words to the one who always tried to guard him from pain. And Sita, with feelings of understanding and determination, bears Ram's words and will walk into the fire, head held high. All of these different feelings stemmed from one word- love. Kaikesi and the family's love towards Vibhishan makes him finally feel accepted. And Ram and Sita's love towards each other make this turning point a most profound one. Every feeling in the world, anger, jealousy, happiness, and disgust, all stem from love, even the negative ones. So remember, when someone behaves negatively, it stems from positivity. All you have to do is cut that negativity with positivity, and led the way so the tree grows straight, not irregular.

Edited by shabari14 - 9 years ago

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1087354

Hibernated

Posted: 9 years ago

#543

Here's a question for everyone and I want everyone to please give their views.

Where does society begin and individuality end?

And you can give references to the Ramayan. At this point, I think this question is very relevant.

Edited by shabari14 - 9 years ago

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1087354

Hibernated

Posted: 9 years ago

#544

Update on Sita's Ram FF, its called Gyaan Sabha! Guess what's going to happen! :)

http://www.india-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=4630533&TPN=4

Edited by shabari14 - 9 years ago

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shruthiravi

@shruthiravi

Stunner

+ 2

Posted: 9 years ago

#545

Gowri typing from mobile.u made an interesting point. Maryada ya bandhan .Will make a detailed post on it.u told ram followed existing and made changes to it.that's is his greatness. If u want to make change u have to take chains of existing. Ap was one such chain he took so that when sita banishment happens he can mock his praja with her golden statue.tell them indirectly it is not her but their thoughts are impure.

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1087354

Hibernated

Posted: 9 years ago

#546

Originally posted by: shruthiravi
Gowri typing from mobile.u made an interesting point. Maryada ya bandhan .Will make a detailed post on it.u told ram followed existing and made changes to it.that's is his greatness. If u want to make change u have to take chains of existing. Ap was one such chain he took so that when sita banishment happens he can mock his praja with her golden statue.tell them indirectly it is not her but their thoughts are impure.

True, di. To the whole world, it looked like he didn't trust his wife. But, actually, he was proving that she was pure to the people who didn't trust her. By the way, that wasn't my full analysis, something went wrong . I just updated it. And, waiting for the post!

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shruthiravi

@shruthiravi

Stunner

+ 2

Posted: 9 years ago

#547

Gowri you have told one thing. For Geometry and Nature there are many rights. Unfortunately no. Geometry and Nature have only right, but the path to reach that right can be different. Because if you take an equilateral triangle every angle is 60 degree. You cant make a equilateral triangle with one angle 70 degree. If you call it equilateral triangle the angle has to be 60. Now how you make every angle 60 is the question. From a triangle which is not equilateral, where do you cut, where do you add for it to become equilateral triangle. unless you do it correct it wont become equilateral traingle. Same with Square. All 4 sides have to be equal. You cant show a rectangle and tell it is square.

So in any issue first the question is what are you looking at. You need to have a clear idea of what are you looking at. If someone tells that is an equilateral traingle will you believe it or you will call him a fool. Both approach is not right. It happens when you dont know what is equilateral triangle. What is the fundamental of equilateral triangle . if you know every angle has to be 60 degree in equilateral triangle , you just need to measure the angle and then prove this is equilateral triangle or not an equilateral triangle.

Same is with traditions or treating epics like Ramayana and MB. Somebody tells he did this. he is called Maryadapurushottam. So you also have to do it. One side follows blindly, other side discards with disdain. Both sides dont know Maryada. If you know maryada you will sit, you will analyze and then pass your verdict whether Ram is Maryadapurushottam or not. You will go through multiple sources till you get clarity on the questions you have. As a person I have questioned but has not accepted or discarded anything blindly. So learn to question, learn to analyze, learn to evaluate. understand the fundamental in any argument. Check for that. Your theory is accepted or rejected based on fundamental

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1087354

Hibernated

Posted: 9 years ago

#548

Originally posted by: shruthiravi
Gowri you have told one thing. For Geometry and Nature there are many rights. Unfortunately no. Geometry and Nature have only right, but the path to reach that right can be different. Because if you take an equilateral triangle every angle is 60 degree. You cant make a equilateral triangle with one angle 70 degree. If you call it equilateral triangle the angle has to be 60. Now how you make every angle 60 is the question. From a triangle which is not equilateral, where do you cut, where do you add for it to become equilateral triangle. unless you do it correct it wont become equilateral traingle. Same with Square. All 4 sides have to be equal. You cant show a rectangle and tell it is square.
So in any issue first the question is what are you looking at. You need to have a clear idea of what are you looking at. If someone tells that is an equilateral traingle will you believe it or you will call him a fool. Both approach is not right. It happens when you dont know what is equilateral triangle. What is the fundamental of equilateral triangle . if you know every angle has to be 60 degree in equilateral triangle , you just need to measure the angle and then prove this is equilateral triangle or not an equilateral triangle.

Same is with traditions or treating epics like Ramayana and MB. Somebody tells he did this. he is called Maryadapurushottam. So you also have to do it. One side follows blindly, other side discards with disdain. Both sides dont know Maryada. If you know maryada you will sit, you will analyze and then pass your verdict whether Ram is Maryadapurushottam or not. You will go through multiple sources till you get clarity on the questions you have. As a person I have questioned but has not accepted or discarded anything blindly. So learn to question, learn to analyze, learn to evaluate. understand the fundamental in any argument. Check for that. Your theory is accepted or rejected based on fundamental

Oh, I get it now. Like Geometry is based on three undefined, but fundamental terms, all opinions are based on fundamentals in life. But the two extreme sides follow human-made fundamentals, which really aren't fundamentals at all. We should follow balance, the the real fundamental. Thanks for the correction, di, it helped a lot.

Edited by shabari14 - 9 years ago

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shruthiravi

@shruthiravi

Stunner

+ 2

Posted: 9 years ago

#549

Now the question of maryada or bandhan. If you have read through my earlier analysis during Surpi in Panchavati I had highlighted something very important about Ayodhya, Mithila and Lanka.

Mithila it is Maryada and Lanka it is Bandhan. It is clear white and black. Hardest part is Ayodhya where bandhan is camoflauged as Maryada. It is the classic hypocrite society similar to ours.

What is the problem Ram is facing. Let us look this from SKR perspective or rather screenplay perspective.

Dasrath had 3 wives, he gave importance to Kaikeyi and ended up in mess. But the whole problem was put on Kaikeyi while Dasrath was equally responsible for the mess.

Now Shanta this lady has crossed maryada to lure a rishi so that her family can get a heir. She is hailed as the great daughter of Ayodhya. Note the point the one who crossed maryada as I do not approve sending a woman to lure a man to get some of your wants satisfied. But yes she is protected because Sanskriti doesnt want to expose its weak and insecure men.

Now what did Ram do. He is a secure man. Noble man. if others preach theory, he practice theory. Or rather he acts. For Ram marriage is sacred. A union of 2 minds, soul and body and he has pledged himself for lifetime to his better half Sita who loves and respects him the same way. So when another lady Surpi comes asking him to marry her, he objects. The lady has lust and she goes behind Ram. Ram not following the rule which a common man of those times happily follows restricts those advances.

And his need to remain in the maryada of the relation or rather husband to a single woman is the cause from which the other events follow. If he had been raghunandan instead of Ram during surpi episode, he wouldnt faced the dilemma of Raghunandan vs Ram post the war. Sita would have been asked to accept her souten as would have been the norm those days and everyday she would have faced AP while her love is snatched away from her. The emotional AP which Ayodhya happily brushes under the carpet.

Ram doesnt do that. He is not subjecting her to that humilating emotional AP. But what that decision means is the Lanka vas of Sita. Post which the so called maryada of Raghunandan comes into picture.

He had to take the bandhan because he observed maryada. Because now everything is out in the open. He will be asked how are you going to take a woman who stayed at another man's place. Reason why the question comes itself is that the society sends their daughter's to men's house to seduce them to get personal benefits. So a Ram threatens them, their hidden practices. So they want to question him and put the bandhan on him.

Ram cannot cut that bandhan. Only with Sita he can do it. Because she knows Ram has not given her emotional day to day AP marrying another woman. She just have to do one physical AP and that's it.

Ram is still questioned because that AP was physical. But do we question the men who put their wives to day to day emotional AP. By ignoring them, by not respecting them, by putting blame on them.

Actually yesterday was beautiful when Ram tells the bandhan is because of his failure. How many men can accept their failure if not publicly but atleast in front of their spouse. Do they even realize that if you accept your faults the extend which a lady goes to protect you, to stand by you. Sita's AP is evidence of that. She publicly protects her husband's honor. Telling the world why her husband belongs only to her and why no other woman can claim him.

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shruthiravi

@shruthiravi

Stunner

+ 2

Posted: 9 years ago

#550

Gowri your last question. Where does individual end and society begins. We need to understand one thing. Individual never ends. It is whether the individual is selfish or freewill. Action is always from individual perspective.

When you are selfish you snatch things from others, you talk only about rights, you control using fear as your medium. Basically you use Prakriti in its most destructive form

When you use freewill as your medium you do your duty, you get things from others and you manage using respect as your medium. Basically you Prakriti it its most constructive form.

in any individual the right combination of freewill and selfishness help the person to move ahead. The knowledge is when to use freewill and when to use selfishness.

Problem of present society is everyone claiming they are moving as per society but are highly individualistic and selfish. you can see this character at the time of moral conflicts. When you need to take a stand.

For e.g when Laxman goes for vanvass urmila could have said yes then and go on cribbing about it once they are gone bad mouthing Ram and Sita.

Bharath would have relinquished the throne to show everyone and then thought in mind he is doing it because he fears people's mutiny else he would have been the king. Ram tricked him.

Angad would have been Sugreev and Ram and yet insecure telling he has no option hence he decided to be with Ram for the time being.

Sita would have told yes I am going to Mithila because my husband doesnt trust me instead of giving AP.

That is pretending to be selfless, sacrificing for society but remaining highly individualistic. If you use your freewill as an individual automatically though actions are done by individual it will benefit the larger crowd.

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SKR-Of loops and symbolisms#5: Hard way and Smart Way : P.88 - Page 55

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