Swayamvar a woman's choice Ram - Page 6

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RamKiSeeta thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#51
@iDea-yeS-viruS,
Sorry, I do not exactly what you meant in your post, but I will try to reply as best as I can.

First of all, Mahabharat is not a tale about ideal characters. None of the characters are perfect except Krishna, and yes I consider him perfect because his actions were all perfect for THAT era. No one claims the Pandavas and Draupadi to be ideal characters. No one says they were perfect throughout their lifetime. They all made mistakes, but why did Lord Krishna support them over the Pandavas? That's because they had truth on their side. No matter their mistakes, they were fighting the war for the welfare of mankind, and that is what's important.

Coming to Draupadi, no one paints her as the perfection of womanhood. It is written in the epic itself that Draupadi was a bit proud, and tended to be insecure in regards to Subhadra when Arjuna first married her. However, none of her mistakes were so horrible and wrong for her moral character to be called into question. Draupadi was a very human character, but she was also very noble, kind and had a big heart. She was also incredibly patient and steadfast in her devotion to Krishna. These are the qualities people praise, and it is Draupadi's faithfulness to her five husbands that include her in the list of the Pancha Maha Kanyas.

Could Draupadi have refused Karna in a kinder way? Perhaps, but would any form of rejection be truly kind? I don't think so. Either way, Karna would have been humiliated because the fact is, Draupadi did not want to marry him and she knew that he would've been successful in fulfilling her father's vow. No woman had the power to refuse a man after he completed the test (unlike what SKR showed). She was considered as good as married to him, so the only chance to refuse someone would be before he even participated.

We also have to understand how swayamvars worked back then. A princess's free will in regards to her choice of husband was very restricted. Even if she did have the right to refuse a man from participating, she couldn't do so without any valid reason. Draupadi couldn't simply say, "Hey Anga Raj, sorry about it but I don't want to marry you so please don't participate". She would have to let the sabha know why she was refusing someone her own father had invited, or else it would have become a huge problem and may have even caused a battle.

Back in that era, a man's occupation determined his caste, and even if he was later crowned king, he would still be considered as belonging to that caste. Karna was actually born a Kshatriya, but no one except Krishna and Kunti knew that, so for the entire world he was a Suta putra until he died. Being called "suta putra" was not an insult back then like it would be today. It simply meant "charioteer's son" and it's equivalent to us being known today as "Mr. so and so's daughter" or "Mrs. so and so's son".

Even today, people reject marriage proposals on the basis of job and salary. Many girls want to marry doctors and engineers. Let's think of Draupadi's situation in the modern world. Draupadi is this rich girl who's receiving marriage proposals, and Karna is a driver's son who won the lottery and became rich overnight. Would rich girl Draupadi still want to marry him, even though he's rich, or would she marry a man who's a doctor/engineer with a hefty salary and stable job, who can provide for her their entire life?

As a royal princess, Draupadi refused Karna on the basis of his background, which is done even today, just in different scenarios. What other reason could she have given for refusing Karna, besides the fact that he was a suta putra? What could she have said?

As for the Pandavas, even if they are considered Brahmins by caste and not Kshatriyas, they still had the ability to participate in the swayamvar, because princesses of that era were allowed to marry either kshatriyas or brahmins. They could marry a man of equal status or higher, and brahmins were considered higher. That's also what happened. When Arjuna participated in the swayamvar, he was in the guise of a brahmin, so everyone considered him a brahmin. Drupad himself encouraged the brahmins to participate, since all the kshatriyas failed the test already, and Draupadi was prepared to lead the life of a brahmin's wife when she followed Arjuna out of the sabha. She had no idea he was actually a royal prince.

So we truly need to understand the rules and customs of that era before judging the characters. Even by today's standards, Draupadi may be considered a bit arrogant, but she didn't do anything in the epic, for her moral character to come into question. She didn't commit any crime against anyone for people to criticize and condemn her.

Moreover, it's unfair to compare Sita and Draupadi. The lives they led were very different. They both struggled with different situations that cannot be compared. They were born incredibly strong women, just in different ways. Sita's strength lay in her patience and determination, while Draupadi's strength lay in her ability to speak for herself. She was no quiet woman, but why should she? The men in her life were such that she needed to speak up to be safe. The Pandavas were overall good men, but they were nowhere close to Ram. Had Draupadi had a husband like Ram, there would have been no reason for her to be outspoken and cutting in her remarks, as a husband like Ram would never have allowed the vastra haran to happen in the first place.
Edited by ..RamKiJanaki.. - 9 years ago
fatssrilanka thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#52

Originally posted by: shruthiravi

@Ramya this is my take on Suryavamsham and Chandravamsham. Surya stands for the masculine energy. Just like Surya rises each day and sets each day that dynasty was stickler to rule. Didnt we hear. Vachan. They give importance to vachan more than anything. So basically they are rigid communities where change is not welcome. So Ram was born there to bring change, usher change to their rules, to set new rules so that instead of being fanatic, they are willing for a change when needed.

Now coming to Chandravamsham. Here just like Chandra or moon whose shape changes from poorna chandra to amavasya. Just like the mensural cycle of a woman. This society bend rules the way they loved. Rules were bend based on whims and fancies of individuals. Power and wealth was used to intimidate. Krishna was born in this society to bring some order. To make people follow laws.

Asthami and Navami I am not sure Ramya. Though have heard a folklore from my mom. She tells Asthami and Navami went and complained to Vishnu they are discarded dates and he should make them poojaniye. Hence Vishnu took Ram avatar on Navami and Krishna avatar on Ashtami.

@Fatema Suryavansham and Chandravamsham are famous lineages of ancient India. Suryavamsham worships Lord Sun and Chandravamsham worships Moon. Asthami and Navami I guess Ramya can better explain.


Shruti and Ramya thank you for the explanation.
Chiillii thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#53
@ Janaki, thanks for clarifying it so well.
This is one question I want answered too, what words should Draupadi have used to reject Karna, you are absolutely right when you say he had to be stopped before participating, what polite excuse could she have given..while there are versions which mention either he didn't participate or he failed.

A simple no would not be enough it had to be an answer acceptable to all present. So what should she have said ...you are not the king of major kingdom... ( then duryodhan and Jarasandha would have a staked a claim and other smaller kings would have been offended) other than his birth what excuse did she have


But I agree with Shruti regarding SKR, most people I know have never read the epics and are simply not interested in reading it. Though they pray to Ram and Sita daily. I will tell you the impact SKR is having, Sita kalyanam is an important event in our family it is usually organized in the temples before any wedding happens in our extended family.
Almost everyone in my family sat down to watch Swayamvar episodes, my mom and aunts have been talking about it for a while and the whole family ( atleast 50 people in my extended family) saw these episodes. In these 50 only 1 person has read the epic, others don't want to, they want to watch the show (sad but true that tv as medium is more powerful than book). And I am thankful that post episode discussions have been so positive. Everyone is saying "see this is why Ram is Maryada Purshottam" see how Ravan behaved after he lost and see ho ram behaved after he won. This is how you show respect to a woman, learn to take no for answer" we're some of the comments coming from my aunts who are in their 60s. And my cousins are for the first time in agreement with them.

Because whenever somebody used to say be like ram. Automatically we youngsters would sneer, ya abandon pregnant wife...

If these distortions are explaining Ram so well that wether a 60 year old or a 16 year old who have not the read the epics and don't intend to . Then it's a job done well. The makers should continue with these distortions

Even a simple thing like tying up your hair.. Agreed in the epic Sita would not leave her hair open. Or maybe sunaina would have already explained it or her guru in the childhood itself. But then our generation would have never received the beautiful thought behind it.



Edited by Adishakti - 9 years ago
fatssrilanka thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#54

Originally posted by: Adishakti

@ Janaki, thanks for clarifying it so well.

This is one question I want answered too, what words should Draupadi have used to reject Karna, you are absolutely right when you say he had to be stopped before participating, what polite excuse could she have given..while there are versions which mention either he didn't participate or he failed.

A simple no would not be enough it had to be an answer acceptable to all present. So what should she have said ...you are not the king of major kingdom... ( then duryodhan and Jarasandha would have a staked a claim and other smaller kings would have been offended) other than his birth what excuse did she have


I feel whenever a woman rejects a man rudely or politely the man feels insulted. According to starbharat Karan had a hugd ego and hd had a problem with Arjun too. Correct me if I'm wrong because starbharat wasn't accurate. But, I think when a man tries to take revenge in any form the society keeps their mouth shut. And, if a Draupadi tries to be outspoken then it's not accepted.
peachpie thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#55
Thanks Shruti for the post! Ram has made the rules of Swayamvar clear. People who were objecting for Panchalis choice in Swayamwar will clear it.
RamKiSeeta thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#56
@Adishakti,
It's good that some people are taking the messages shown in SKR positively, but I still cannot completely agree that the distortions are necessary. I believe the same messages can still be conveyed without the distortions. If the newer generation does not have an appreciation for Ram without some television show making it clear for them, then I feel it is a failure of their families to teach them properly. You don't just tell your child, "Be like Ram", you teach them why Ram's path should be followed. You teach them how Ram fulfilled each and every responsibility in his life, giving equal importance to parents, brothers, wife, friends and the subjects.

Children of today's generation want to know "why". They are no longer simply interested in following something because parents told them to, so parents should also take the time to sit down with their child and give proper explanations.

I feel the underlying problem is that so many parents are just too busy with their lives to explain anything properly to their kids. I've seen so many parents around me who can't deal with their kids and give them a tablet or phone for entertainment whenever the kids ask them too many questions. If parents want to have children, they should take the time to raise their children well, and if they feel they don't have time to invest in their children, then don't have kids.

The younger generation would not be so skeptical and disrespectful towards Hindu puranas if parents took the time to teach them properly, instead of evading their questions. My parents always answered each and every one of my questions, much like Janak and Sunaina in SKR, which is why I have such respect for our Gods without having to resort to television programs to create my respect.

If SKR is having a positive effect on audience, then that's good, but I'm still dissatisfied with the path this show is taking to give that positive effect. I still feel it could be done in a more subtle, less modern way. That's just my opinion, don't expect anyone to agree with me.
RamKiSeeta thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#57
One thing I like from SKR is its portrayal of Janak and Sunaina as patient and understanding parents. Not only today's children, I feel today's parents can learn something from this show as well. They can learn from Janak and Sunaina that their duties don't end simply by delivering kids. The have a responsibility to teach their kids good values and good conduct throughout their lifetime, at least until their mind is able to make responsible decisions on its own.

I didn't necessarily agree with all of little Sita's impertinent questions, but I did like how Janak was portrayed as a very understanding and patient father, who always had time for his kids. That's how a parent should be, no matter how busy they are with their jobs.

If every parent is like Janak and Sunaina of SKR, then kids wouldn't grow up disrespecting Hindu epics and Gods.
iDea-yeS-viruS thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#58

@Janaki Akka
My basic point is one shouldn't judge anything based on folklores.


About Vastra Haran, I agree it's a ccrime.

About Draupadi SSwayamwar,I said she could've been polite.I mean she could've tell I only wanted to marry Kshatriya or brahmanaputra.
It's debatable on perspective. However it caused Vastra Haran (see. I'm not saying justified but I said it caused)

After Vastra Haran, Draupadi accepted Dhrithrasthra offer. So all debts are cleared morally.

As you said, no character in MB was perfect. Then why always one wanted to prove Panchali as perfect?


second Dice game only caused war. So there is no connection between Vastra Haran and War.


Why should one always bbring Vastra Haran into picture for someone who said Draupadi was responsible for war?

Some people putting Dury and Raavan in same position. But it's wrong.
I agree dDuryodhana asked Panchali to sit on his thigh was wrong.

But there was sdifference between Raavan and Duryodhana. Raavan had lusty over Sita, but Duryodhana did was to satisfy his ego. he wasn't womanizer what recent shows projecting.

As a Yuvaraj, He performed numerous yyagas , he helped people, He followed all rules correctly.

Only bad quality in him was he ready to do anything to satisfy his ego.

At final stage of war, Yudhistir gave a promise that Duryodhana can become King if he defeats one of pandavas whom he selects and the method he choose (I mean archery, Kadha yuddh, swords fight).
Still he chosen bheem and engaged into kadhayuddh.(if he chosen Arjun, or someone else, he could've become King)

For Krishna, He was cursed by Kandhari for his partiality. He humbly accepted that curse.

More than that, Duryodhana was in heaven, while Yudhistir and his brothers and Draupadi spent few secs in hell for the mmistakes they committed.

It's all in MB.but Whenever I see some posts, it always projecting Panchali as perfect and Vastra Haran only caused War while both are untrue.
pasumarthisa thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#59
Idea yes virus


Duryodhana spent few minutes in heaven because his punya was so small. And vice versa for pandavas. Because the shastras say, u experience whatever is less first.

We should let draupadi be. There is another forum where the ghastly vastraharan can be discussed.
iDea-yeS-viruS thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#60

Originally posted by: pasumarthisa

Idea yes virus


Duryodhana spent few minutes in heaven because his punya was so small. And vice versa for pandavas. Because the shastras say, u experience whatever is less first.

We should let draupadi be. There is another forum where the ghastly vastraharan can be discussed.


No.Duryodhana was permitted in Heaven not based on punya basis but based on His Kshatriya brave act.

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