Swayamvar a woman's choice Ram - Page 5

Originally posted by: shruthiravi

@janaki agree to you. Panchali did a mistake. Also we need to look at the circumstance she did it. Krishna directs her to exercise her choice. It was a spur on the moment decision.She speaks what comes to her mind first. She acts without thinking. And another thing why Karna should be ashamed of being called Suta putra. Why he should reject his identity. Fact is if you cannot be true to your identity, you cannot be true to yourself.

And laughing on Duryodhan. Again I will ask the same question Janaki asked. How many of us has not laughed when faced with a situation Panchali faced with Duryodhan. We also laugh. Someone so proud comes and then fumbles all along anyone will make merry. We are humans, mistakes happen from us. It's a fact.

But for that to drag a woman and disrobe her in a public hall full of men, calling her prostitute. if you ask Draupadi had the right to call him Suta Putra based on the info she had at that point, though she shouldnt have . That was the truth. Karna was behaving like a man who cant take truth.

But Draupadi was not prostitute. She was married as per Vedic rituals to 5 Pandavas. There were strict rules among brothers on sharing Draupadi. The Pandavas respected her a lot. That marriage was accepted in society as well as the among the elders of the Kuruvansh. So she was not a prostitute. She was the Lakshmi of Kuruvansh. Dragging and disrobing the Kul Lakshmi of your family is never the right way of showing dissent with whatever mistakes she has done.

@janaki Panchali laughing at Duryodhana is illustrated in some of the Malayalam poetries. I dont remember the name of the poets now as I studied it in some 8th or 9th std, not sure if it was Kunchan Nambiar. But whatever most of the poets whose poems I studied during school days lived before BR chopra. So this might have been a folklore that got added to the original as time passed by. Thanks for sharing the reference from epic.

Originally posted by: shruthiravi

@Shanti there is a lot of things wrong with today's society. We are dealing with extremes, whereas our epics dealt with balance. Always balance between Prakriti and Purush. This balance is so very evident in both Ramayana and Mahabharata which is still relevant. Only thing is that we need to connect these things properly from the epic on how it can be used for present day circumstances

@janaki it is easy to tell go and read. But that doesnt solve the matter. We are a country where atleast 40% illiterate. And remaining 60% literate ones may be 15-20% will have the wisdom to search, understand the underlying principle. Remaining will do things as per hearsay. They get exploited in the name of rituals, of the fear of offending their God Ram and Goddess Sita. That is the ground reality. A visual speaks 1000 times more than a letter. It reaches faster. So if a Ram can mouth a dialogue about woman's choice, it might reach a rural home. It might change one man's view towards woman. It might make him introspect and maybe we never know. Maybe one woman might be saved from acid attack.And that one change if you can achieve, the gradual process will happen. Because people rever Ram. What is harm in spreading the social awareness through him, through the story relevant to our times.

Originally posted by: shruthiravi

@janaki Panchali laughing at Duryodhana is illustrated in some of the Malayalam poetries. I dont remember the name of the poets now as I studied it in some 8th or 9th std, not sure if it was Kunchan Nambiar. But whatever most of the poets whose poems I studied during school days lived before BR chopra. So this might have been a folklore that got added to the original as time passed by. Thanks for sharing the reference from epic.

@janaki habitual criminals cannot be changed. But those oscillating, yes they can be changed. Working in the CSR wing of my organization that is what keeps me going. When I work with 10, I get a success in 1. But for that 1, I am willing to work with another 10 😃. The feeling you get when your mentee succeeds, when he or she is able to break the shackles is much more than your own success. And I use books, movies, shows etc.. to drive my point. To motivate them, to give them hope. And I talk about epics also mostly Mahabharath as I have always felt more connected to it 😃

Originally posted by: ..RamKiJanaki..

Shruthi, while what you say may be true, I also have a very cynical view on humankind. I don't think any human can change their regressive mindset through one television show, no matter how nice it is. A man who is prone to throw acid on a woman is not going to change just because StarRam gave a speech on woman's rights. A woman who believes in rebelling against everything her parents teach her in the name of feminism is not going to change because StarSita gives her parents due importance in her life. No rapist is going to stop raping people just because StarRavan's action of raping Rambha is condemned and cursed.

People who have inherently criminal thoughts are not going to change their beliefs with one TV show. What changes humankind if raising kids the right way from the start. Parents need to start teaching their sons to respect women. Parents need to start teaching women that feminism is not about rebelling against all rules and customs, and help women understand why some customs are truly beautiful. People need to start teaching their kids good values from the moment they are born. That's the only way society can change, because none of these rapists and killers are born evil. No one is born evil. They are made evil by a bad upbringing, and from surrounding themselves with bad influences. Parents really need to start being stricter with who their children become friends with, who they hang out with.

I'm not saying Ramayana cannot teach these people. You're right, it's much easier watching something than reading it, but I highly doubt a television show can change inherently regressive mindsets.

What I do know is that many children watch Ramayana, so it's very important to teach them the right story with the right morals, so they don't grow up to become rapists, molesters, attackers, etc. If any television adaptation of Ramayana succeeds in raising the next generation to be respectful to elders and humane to each other, then I will know that it's succeeded.

Originally posted by: shruthiravi

@janaki habitual criminals cannot be changed. But those oscillating, yes they can be changed. Working in the CSR wing of my organization that is what keeps me going. When I work with 10, I get a success in 1. But for that 1, I am willing to work with another 10 😃. The feeling you get when your mentee succeeds, when he or she is able to break the shackles is much more than your own success. And I use books, movies, shows etc.. to drive my point. To motivate them, to give them hope. And I talk about epics also mostly Mahabharath as I have always felt more connected to it 😃

If anyone thinks I'm justifying 'Vastra Haran', let me clear I'm not. But at same time I want to explain few things too.

Draupadi Swayamwar

Everyone knows what happened in Draupadi Swayamwar. But her word isn't mistake.

Janaki Akka. Of course, you do know Varna decided based on characterization and profession, not on Birth

At Swayamwar Karn wasn't mere Archer, he was King of Anga desh. So he must be treated as Kshatriya,as how Vishwamitra treated as brahmana.

Draupadi announced that she won't marry 'Sutaputra'

Because she can't tell Karn was Suta.(Karn was Kshatriya but Suta putra) SO she indirectly used his birth to stop him from participating Swayamwar.

Karn wasn't tragic character as many supporting. That's different.
But here Karn feelings must be noted. he attained Kshatriya status by his will (He was born Kshatriya , that's different) then why should one lpoke his birth?

Is it because Draupadi gave more importance to FIL than Husband?


If birth ddecides cast, then how can pandavas become Kshatriya while his ancestor Kashyapa was brahmana?

OK. What happened was happened?


Vastra Haran


At Vastra Haran, Karn called as w****.
He cited old traditions which explaining characterization of the Wh who sharing herself more than 3 man.

Again logic and moralic matters here.
Morally, what he did was wrong.
Draupadi was humiliated. She took a vow(showering Dushathana blood on her), bheem took vow to kill Dury,etc...

(Pause)
Then pandavas weren't ordered to go exile. Dhrithrastra offered Draupadi compensation for humiliation.He freed her and her husbands from slaves. He gave their kingdom back. Then second Dice game only meant for exile.

Kauravas refused to give kingdom back, then war happened.

(Again pause)
WHen she had been accept their proposal, how pandavas (incl Draupadi) vow get worth anymore?
But they fulfilled their ppromises. That means literally pandavas backstab
Kauravas.

At dice game, when Vidhur wanted to shut that game, Dhirthirastra announced that the only one had right was Yudhistir to stop.

OK, at least Yudhistir would've been refused to play second time but he didn't.,Because he took a vow that he'll obey other's words to avoid a war.

Even after great war, Duryodhana trolled everyone including Krishna. That time, devas throw flowers on him for his brave and sense, while Krishna and pandavas were put their heads down due to embarrassment.

There are always unnoticed pages existing.I'm not justifying 'Vastra Haran', Draupadi suffered much .I agree. But at same time why other incidents ignored to pose 'Draupadi as pure and victim'?

Draupadi wasn't any role model character (I feel). At same time, I must admit her one quality outshined all other weakness. She almost ttreated all husbands equal. That's why she always praised.

Some people comparing Sita and Draupadi. Trust me, Sita was unmatchable. She was ideal, commitment, Honest, Courage, etc...

But problem always lies in gender priority. I do agree, gender bias always existing, even in me.
As a male, I love Ram. But will that mean I haven't respect Sita.
Mata Sita was also my lord.I respect her as much as Ram.

I am reading many pposts questioning Ram eligibility as husband.
But what surprising me is none of them questioned Mother Sita responsibilities on her sons, how she abandoned them to a man who sacrificed her for people's doubt?

When Sita called as Loka Mata, there wasn't any complaint. Then why should one question Ram when revered for his Maryada Purshottam?

Gender differentiation meant complement the other , not to ccompete.sadly, what we promoting was same.

In compare and contrast, what I llearned in Ramayana and MB is, Human(Ram) also worshipped if he followed his morals, God(Krishna) also punished if he do against the will.

Trust me Morals and crimes has no gender

That's why Ram and Sita were so close to my heart while all other gods sooo far from them.

forgot to add this in previous post. in Ramayana, Lord Ram praised by so many qualities but Sita described as only one. 'ever amiable Alter Ego of Ram'.