Paresh Rawal - the best guest - Page 7

Originally posted by: punjini

Music critics and celeb judges might have different/unclear obligations but the point is that they both make their observations in the public domain and maybe even the same performance/programme. This point has been made before, but bears repeating.

Since Shaan's obligation is towards the show, it includes the job of encouraging all participants in an unbiased manner. Any bias shown by him towards any contestant will lead to him getting fired from the post of anchor, is that so difficult to understand? There is no question of firing celebrity judges, so they are quite free to say what they please, as long as they don't worry about garnering brownie points.

Celebrity judges are therefore free not to follow or to follow the book of interpersonal communication skills that certain skilled debators might need to look up frequently in order to maintain peace in their workplace.

"they both make their observations in the public domain and maybe even the same performance/programme"

but they have different obligations when commenting/ writing their piece, dont they? did we not decide that above? we do understand that the question of obligations is an important one, dont we?

"There is no question of firing celebrity judges, so they are quite free to say what they please"

at the end of the day, most of us are free, arent we? question has never been about the right to freedom of speech, it has been CONSISTENTLY about whether certain feedback is appropriate in certain contexts.

Originally posted by: chatbuster

hmmm, not sure if i understand but is there any problem with long debates? shld we all find it necessary to have short chatty posts that finally ring up 300 pgs on the meter?😕 also, while we are keeping score, how do we get to the 30% posts mentioned elsewhere- by personalities or by different viewpoints? wld appreciate any clarifications.

as for the rest of it, sure PR's a normal guy like all of us and that's why maybe we like him. we might also all want to slap in our negative feedback in full public view. question still is- is it appropriate? is it?

There is no problem with long debates, but they should be sensible and open to agreement - or we should have arbitrators - else they never end. And they shouldn't go off topic, just like you are going at the moment with the posts mentioned elsewhere. Let's leave them elsewhere.

As for Paresh, if he's been asked for an opinion in public view - he would rather give an honest one. Wouldn't it be less appropriate to lie? That's worse, isn't it? And I'm not even talking about how the lies may mislead the contestants. Let's leave that aside. I mean in a moral sense. Is it moral to lie to people, whether it's contestants, or the public?

Originally posted by: shadyhtown

There is no problem with long debates, but they should be sensible and open to agreement - or we should have arbitrators - else they never end. And they shouldn't go off topic, just like you are going at the moment with the posts mentioned elsewhere. Let's leave them elsewhere.

As for Paresh, if he's been asked for an opinion in public view - he would rather give an honest one. Wouldn't it be less appropriate to lie? That's worse, isn't it? And I'm not even talking about how the lies may mislead the contestants. Let's leave that aside. I mean in a moral sense. Is it moral to lie to people, whether it's contestants, or the public?

the opener about "a long debate" was not exactly a topic burner was it?

waise, last i knew this was a discussion forum. the debating/ debater references have been made numerously, and may i suggest mostly from the "other" side? as for time limits, word limits etc., why dont u run it by the admin/ mods to see if we shld cut down on the discussion.

as for the rest of it, perhaps u might want to go far back on this thread. very early on we did talk about how "you dont want to lose credibility by giving dishonest appraisals". but there are ways and there are ways. lots of stuff back there if u want to stay tuned, ok? meanwhile, happy reading

Originally posted by: chatbuster

the opener about "a long debate" was not exactly a topic burner was it?

waise, last i knew this was a discussion forum. the debating/ debater references have been made numerously, and may i suggest mostly from the "other" side? as for time limits, word limits etc., why dont u run it by the admin/ mods to see if we shld cut down on the discussion.

as for the rest of it, perhaps u might want to go far back on this thread. very early on we did talk about how "you dont want to lose credibility by giving dishonest appraisals". but there are ways and there are ways. lots of stuff back there if u want to stay tuned, ok? meanwhile, happy reading

Again, off topic. If you want to really delve deeply into the issue of word limits, time limits, etc, you can open up a brand new thread for that. As far as I am concerned, this thread clearly states "Paresh Rawal" and he is what I will focus on.

The fact that the dishonesty issue was mentioned much earlier proves 2 points. One, that if a debate doesn't end even after that very clear point about 'avoiding dishonesty' was made, then the debate is going nowhere, and is being kept alive for little reason other than no one wants to give up.

The other point it proves is that a lot of people cannot follow long, baseless debates, and hence can't read all through the past 10 pages to see what's been said and what hasn't. At least I cannot. So rather than read through all that, I'll simply opt out of this debate, having made my point. Please continue debating with someone who has been following this from the start.

Originally posted by: Jaadoogar

Just imagine and be realistic, Jab Shaan ne PR se poocha sir aapka kaya khayal hai inke gaane pe, to kaisa lagta agar PR kahta ke Shaan main baad mein bata doonga contestant ko private mein. I agree some people do not want to say on face and sugar coat it, Some people want to say reality but still sugar coat it that is their thinking and liking. And this post was to know public opinion about whose judgement was good. Bottom line is majority of people do not like sugar coated reaction that is why they supported PR as best judge.

No debate can over rule the majority's opinion.

are the only choices (a) negative feedback in full public view or (b) private in backstage? 😕

this was a "debate"? "this"? 😆

Originally posted by: Jaadoogar

Anolda, I know I should ignore but myself being a logical debater in my college time it is difficult to ignore. But I will try to ignore.

Jadoo.. logical debates are great! But in any debate there are three kinds of people.

One, those who are open-minded, and who ultimately admit they were wrong and agree with the other person on the issue, or part of the issue, and shake hands at the end of the debate.

Two, those who are angry debaters. If they know they've been pinned in the debate, they'll just stop and turn away and refuse to acknowledge you and your argument, rather than admit they were wrong.

Three, those who will never admit defeat. If they've been pinned down by good arguments, they'll come up with different, twisted questions on the same argument, or they may try to deviate to a different issue. Their method is to tire you to such an extent that you finally walk away or admit defeat.

Ab aap khud andaaza lagaao ki yahan kaise type ka debate chal raha hai, and whether it's worth taking part in it or not.

The reason why I chose Paresh Rawal as the best judge was because he was genuine in his appreciation or criticism to the participants.. The participants have enough fanfare to feed their vanity..what is required of a judge is to give a good judgement and appraise correctly.

It doesn't make sense to tell a very good performer.."man you were good"!! and to a mediocre performer .".awesome man just too good.."!! That is not judgement..that is being politically right as some may say or plain stupid.

Another judge comes and goes.."mindblowing wow, great god bless you.." these are not what the participants need, they need feed back positive or negative to improve upon.

To me... I found Paresh Rawal very genuine.He claimed he did not understand music much but his comments were bang on!!! and i found his suggestions very right..

the participants should take every advice good or bad and make that their strength. Just my POV

Originally posted by: shadyhtown

Again, off topic. If you want to really delve deeply into the issue of word limits, time limits, etc, you can open up a brand new thread for that. As far as I am concerned, this thread clearly states "Paresh Rawal" and he is what I will focus on.

The fact that the dishonesty issue was mentioned much earlier proves 2 points. One, that if a debate doesn't end even after that very clear point about 'avoiding dishonesty' was made, then the debate is going nowhere, and is being kept alive for little reason other than no one wants to give up.

The other point it proves is that a lot of people cannot follow long, baseless debates, and hence can't read all through the past 10 pages to see what's been said and what hasn't. At least I cannot. So rather than read through all that, I'll simply opt out of this debate, having made my point. Please continue debating with someone who has been following this from the start.

wld appreciate if we cld leave thread analysis aspects for the mods. ditto for what's baseless etc. Theek?

regarding proof, sorry doesnt work for me! when offering honest appraisals, is blunt talk the only way? when parents are being positive with kids who are getting off-track with something, are they lying? the boss who is classy enuff to understand the difference between constructive criticism and negative feedback, he is lying? everything is black and white?

also, the honest-appraisal was brought up by me in the same breath. to understand why that's still consistent with the rest of it, gotta read back. sorry, cant offer any short-cuts here.😊

Originally posted by: adi_0112

The reason why I chose Paresh Rawal as the best judge was because he was genuine in his appreciation or criticism to the participants.. The participants have enough fanfare to feed their vanity..what is required of a judge is to give a good judgement and appraise correctly.

It doesn't make sense to tell a very good performer.."man you were good"!! and to a mediocre performer .".awesome man just too good.."!! That is not judgement..that is being politically right as some may say or plain stupid.

Another judge comes and goes.."mindblowing wow, great god bless you.." these are not what the participants need, they need feed back positive or negative to improve upon.

To me... I found Paresh Rawal very genuine.He claimed he did not understand music much but his comments were bang on!!! and i found his suggestions very right..

the participants should take every advice good or bad and make that their strength. Just my POV

i am not sure i ever said that he is not the best. but is it not fair for someone to suggest that something cld have been better? esp. vis-a-vis negative feedback? is the world just black and white? feedback can only be blunt negative or mindblowingly great? even if it has to be criticism, it cannot be more constructively stated?

Originally posted by: Jaadoogar

Main big problem is whatever we are saying genuine, CB is saying negative feedback. This is the main point of debate. CB will come up with definition of all kind of feedback tomorrow and then debate will be finalise in 10 minutes under strict rule and respected judges.

yaar, mind mat karna if i do not wish to provide a short-cut "kunji" to help out with all those definitions. haan, agar boss hota, toh i wld have to definitely work up an executive summary, u know the one-page essay kinds? unless i shot myself first. J/K😉😆

meanwhile, what can i say? baal-baal banke?😛

btw, gnite. will drop in on the eve next three days