OP Nayyar...Loss of the Veteran composer - Page 11

Originally posted by: punjini

First of all, are you talking about SDB or SPB? SD Burman or SP Balasubramaniam?

Are you saying that you thought that SDB was not the greatest? Did anyone slam you for saying that he was not your favourite? Did I? Are you referring to the thread where Qwerty said that North Indian MDs and singers have done more than other regions for Hindi film music? I think I said what I had to on that thread.

I don't think a talent scout can hone just about anybody. I don't agree that you can mould just anyone, that's my belief. In terms of art and music, all are not born equal. But yes, tastes are subjective.

So OPN was an institution and SDB was not? OPN had a rocking career and SDB didn't? Sorry, you haven't got your facts right.

If praise for Asha's individual capacity and SDB's brilliance sounds like undermining of OPN's work to you, then I can't help in this matter.

i did say SPB, right? to just suggest that SPB was not the greatest was to invite the wrath from certain quarters, not necessarily you. here, we have gone thru an entire thread unfettered by the need to restrain ourselves on issues tat dont even relate to music. surely we cant expect to have that go unchallenged, when we've still managed to dredge it up in the second-last post?

n we have seen how hard it is for folks to give top honors and make selections even for best singers, or havent we? in c2005, in emaaet? aaj tak log hema ko lekar rote hain, nahee? what is all that about if not an ambivalence in terms of who the best singers are? very clear cut? and haven't we conveniently glossed over the student/ institution example as if that's not as subjective a decision process as making a selection for best singer? everything in life is not a grading sheet. neither music, but then not even a job interview process. and we've skipped the part about fast/ slow tracks?

just a while earlier u had pointed to how u cld tell that asha was a talent waiting to explode. u could tell. implying everyone could. perhaps u might want to reconsider that in light of the monday morning quarterbacking analogies provided. at the end of the day, isnt proper "casting" one of the jobs of an MD?

relative. that's the word used. with respect to SDB and OPN. and i do have my facts right. RDB is a different matter. his career was rocking. but in the kind of strict orthodoxy some of us have applied elsewhere it was not necessarily for an abundance of traditional music.

Originally posted by: juggyE

So whats the discussion here...

- OP Nayyar was not a good music director?
- Suman Kalyanpur is a better singer than Asha?
- OP Nayyar/Asha vs SD Burman/Asha?
- MRTP of the Mangeshkar sisters?

- From all I've heard/read, OP Nayyar was an egostical person but it doesn't take away an iota of what he achieved as a MD.
- Suman K was a very very good singer but I dont think anyone has actually compared her to Asha. The point some people are trying to make here (from what I could gather) is that SumanK, SudhaM, MubarakB, ChandraniM, VaniJ could have given us a lot more if not for the monopoly of the Mangeshkar sisters. SumanK's best work came when Mohd Rafi and Lata didn't sing with each other for almost a decade (royalty issue) and she was paired with Rafi. After they made up, Suman Kulyanpur again went into oblivion 😭

Of course, there have been a lot of rumors regarding OP-Lata and then, the Mangeshkar sisters monopoly. Believe what you want to, ignore the rest...

- O.P. Nayyar who turned to Asha Bhosle in the 60's, admits in his most recent interview that "I am to blame myself in the position I am today. My only regret in life is that I didn't stick to Geeta dutt voice, and ignored her for Asha Bhosle. As I was involved very emotionally with Asha Bhosle at that time, and Asha Bhosle didn't wanted me to compose songs for any other female singer, this almost stopped me to use any other female voice. Asha Bhosle says that my compositions were very intricate and complex to sing, and me(Asha) and Mohd Rafi can only give 80% to O.P.Nayyar songs. I (Nayyar) think she is lying, she and Mohd Rafi could only give 40% to my music. The only singers who can give 100% and did full justice to my songs were Geeta Dutt and Shamshad Begum". (Source:- rediff.com) (I think O.P. Nayyar along with Kedar Sharma and are the only ones to admit to Lata and Asha monopoly in the Film Industry. Maybe there are many other incidents too where they stopped music directors to use other female voices, as many singers including Suman Kulyanpur, Vani Jairam and Mubarak Begum blamed Lata and Asha for that.
All of them can't be lying, what you people think...

- The song "Piya Aan na sakhie more nainan mein" was to be originally sung by Lata Mangeshkar. As this was O.P Nayyar first movie (Aasmaan, 1951), Lata refused to sing for new music director and the song was recorded in Rajkumari's voice in a hurry. O.P. Nayyar had lots of self-respect and ego, and he sweared to himelf, that he will be popular without using Lata voice even once, and he proved it! Lata in her recent interview says diplomatically, "I fell sick and therefore I wasn't able to go, and the recording was cancelled". The other songs of Aasmaan were sung by Shamshad Begum and Geeta Dutt and C.H. Atma.
Who knows what the truth is...

- S.D.Burman also had trouble with Lata, starting from the film Sitaron se aage, and didn't used her voice for almost seven years. Of course, as Punjini ji mentioned, this gave a further boost to Asha's career.

- Lata ji (apparently) also had a problem with Kidar Sharma ji - In an interview (magazine Shama), the song "kabhi tanhaiyon mai yun hamari yaad aaye gi" was to be originally sung by Lata. Everything including rehearsal etc was complete. But Lata wanted Kidar Sharma to pay her driver too. When he refused to pay, Lata said "mera gala kharab hai, i can't sing". Kidar became very furious (M/D Snehal Bhatkar told him to just pay Lata's driver and get over it) and asked someone to call Mubarak Begum and told Lata "yeh dhandli yahan nahin chaley gi".
Mubarak Begum (And this tells us something about her circumstances in those days) came to record this song, the first thing she asked was food. After eating, the song was finally recorded and became her most famous song. Later, Kidar Sharma never used Lata's voice for any of his later films.

Again, no idea if that's true...

Lastly...
Jawani Diwani/Caravan might have been a random example but can in no way (IMHO) be compared to Ek Musafir Ek Hasina/Kashmir Ki Kali...

Some of Asha's songs for SDB are classics though (Sujata/Bandini)...

Juggy ji

the point (main ) was that Asha does not acknowledge the respect as Mnetor to OP. She got the benfit of his siters pride. But is any one else had got the break instead of her...would have been on sky too becuase the composition, lyrics beats etc of OP is just too good. (SO the sisters monopoly has shadowed ome great singers from past....became the discussion point too in there. SD also gave break to Asha only after break up with Lata. But both were such marvellous md that could have made any good singer a shining star in th e music world.

Comments made by OP on women & wine has offended all of us but I beleive in industry it is very open ..no one is dhoodh ka dhulla and OP was (either darring or confused, hurt or stupid) to acknowledge that in press and openly. But again he can only dare to say his views openly while rest hide it or donot dare say it openly.

even then my respect for him does not decrease.

He has given a lot and not a single singer came (Male or female) in public saying he abused them.

That is all😃

Originally posted by: punjini

Certainly give credit to OPN for grooming Asha initially and giving her first break (though SDB started working with her in exactly the same year)but my point is that OPN also equally benefitted from the partnership. It worked both ways, that is you could say Asha was also responsible for establishing OP among the list of music greats. And I don't think any other singer would have fitted that slot (my opinion).

I have said before and say it again. Let's separate OPN the composer and OPN the man. For his creative side he gets bouquets from me and for his sexist/arrogant attitude, he gets my brickbats. Is it so difficult for some folks to understand? (Using your language) 😉

And why is it being overlooked that I referred to OPN as a genius again and again? I don't undermine OPN's music at all and the fact that I find his attitude sickening does not stop me from listening to his music.

But I will not hold him solely responsible for Asha's success when we have such gems composed by SDB and RDB for Asha (some of my favourites include "bhavara bada naadan hai", "ab ke baras bhejo", "kaali ghata chhaye" and there are many many more).

Punjini ji

it is a good MD that establishes a singer. Once singer gets an identity then becomes a star and has to maintain his/her standards....this is what happened with Asha.

She got break with OP and SD followed him when pissed off at Lata like him. If singers made MD then lata had doen it by refusing to sing for a new MD. But a good md is succesful. And yes they both have produced jems with Asha. But still OP stand first to given more quality work with Asha then any one else. SD went back to lata but he did not.

His aatitude and comments do not make him less talented. If Asha was ever insulted..today she has reached to a point where what she says becomes a fact...but has never said any thing. Why her any on has never opposed him or said he was harrrassing them sexually. He was open. If as a women they want to please him..he was ok and if as a talent you want to please him, he was ok. His comment s do not said he forced them to work with him or to be with him just to please him ..........i am sure you know what i mean. So why is to blame..just because he admits it in public.

the song "kabhi tanhaiyon mai yun hamari yaad aaye gi"

Mubarak Begum (And this tells us something about her circumstances in those days) came to record this song, the first thing she asked was food. After eating, the song was finally recorded and became her most famous song. Later, Kidar Sharma never used Lata's voice for any of his later films.

QUOTE]

😭😭 that song sings for her situation perfectly😭

Originally posted by: Swar_Raj

Great Quote the song "kabhi tanhaiyon mai yun hamari yaad aaye gi"

Originally posted by: Iron

Querty ..totaly agree with you. As per me composition of music is the major factor. OP and SD music speaks for itself. Any one singing to that music could be hit. 👏

Originally posted by: qwertyasdfgh

👏 👏

Originally posted by: Iron

Querty ..totaly agree with you. As per me composition of music is the major factor. OP and SD music speaks for itself. Any one singing to that music could be hit. 👏

👏👏👏

Originally posted by: qwertyasdfgh

The golden era had a extreme synergy of great folks coming together like great lyricists, great MD's, great artists in general and what made them great is not merely their abilities but their honest dedication to exquisite and memorable musical work which is sorely missing today.

So making moot comparisons is quite futile..

????????????

Originally posted by: qwertyasdfgh

Thanks Iron...

Its worth noting that a person who was not a member of classical musicians guild..whose basic instruments were mostly harmonium and dholak (which he made sound so beautiful), who couldn't get Lata to sing for him, who had peer pressure from the Raj kapoor camp ganging up on him with a battery of successful artists..with all these odds against him he could do what he did.. says a lot about this larger than life person who may otherwise appear outspoken yet blunt when opining!!! 😊

Just to cite some examples where Asha should be forever indebted to OPN listen to the following

1. Akeli hoon main piya aa.
2. Meri jaan tumpe sadke.
3. Yeh hai reshmi.
4. Ek tu hai piya
5. Chain se hum ko kabhi.
6. Raat andheri chamke taare.
7. Aao huzoor tumko.
8. puchho na hume hum unke liye
.... there are lot of more..

another home-run qwerty!!!!!

btw, juggyE's post mentions a song by mubarak begum "kabhi tanhaiyon mai yun hamari yaad aaye gi". does someone know which movie this song is from? if it is what i remember, then it wld have to rank with the "mere mehboob shayaad aaj kuchh naaraz hain mujhse" song as one of my favs...

sorry but another one- "ab raat guzarne wali hai". looked it up, shows up as both a mukesh song in Aah and a Lata song in Awaara. dont know what is going on with that. song i remember is a female version but wldnt have thought it was lata. out of context here because it's not an OPN song, but still...

something very similar i find in all these songs- the pathos, the feeling, the richness of a long-forgotten era... songs i've heard maybe only a few times but which left a lasting impact. the tone/ voice in these songs is also so different from what we have with asha. who knows, if asha wasnt there, we'd have had a different voice that we wld have cherished... But then maybe, dont know if it is the singer or that old recording technology that makes those songs sound ancient, with a timeless quality abt it...