Sa Re Ga Ma Pa Dha Ni (the Seven notes) - Page 2

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apparaohoare thumbnail
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Posted: 19 years ago
#11

Originally posted by: N Sinha



Kishore ji

Now this was due for long time.
You cant force us to read trash with members like you being around.
I sincerely request you to plz do an analysis of final 3 singers as many have requested, trust me we shall be around & wont let people bash you.

Im eagerly waiting for next post o raags.
Thanks

I support Sinha ji. Please Bhakta da. Just tired of all the nonsense going around.

Please give your opinion on the remaining three. As said by Sinha ji, we won't let any one bash you.

Can't wait for your next post.

N Sinha thumbnail
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Posted: 19 years ago
#12

Originally posted by: mdroy

Thanks for the post. Have not seen your posts for a while. Thanks for this
lovely threadl.

yup...BTW why dont you write posts of your own.

kishore_bhakta thumbnail
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Posted: 19 years ago
#13

Originally posted by: adwarakanath

Arey come on Akshata, why would I take offence? I am nothing in front of Bhaktaji. The little things I know are just from listening and reading, whereas Bhaktaji is a seasoned musician who plays 20 stringed instruments! I look upto him! 😊

C'mon, don't say that! It's people like you who make this forum have some meaning and valuable, despite limitless threads of Some Repetitive Gossip Mastering Priority (SRGMP)! You are definitely an inspiration for not just me, but for all music lovers to wake up and start winning this forum with discussions of music!

With great respect for Adwarkanathji and his analysis, as well as other critiques I have seen on this forum, here are my viewpoints of the twelve contestants of the Agni Pariksha level.

Rakhtima - She has a very good voice, but her selection is a bit limited. Her voice sounded pleasant in songs like "Saawan Ke Jhoole", "Odhni Odh Ke Nachoon", and "Yeh Haseen Vadiyan." It really suited the slower paced type of songs. It didn't really suit the fast paced songs too much. Listen to her rendition of "Deewana Hai Dekho" from K3G in the 2nd charran episode 2 part 2.

Swananda - She has a voice, as many mentors pointed out, that resembles Asha-ji. If you close your eyes, you will hear nuances of her style of singing. For the most part, her "Parde Mein Rehne Do", "Jaane Kya Baat Hai", and "Sharara" were one of her good songs. She was pretty good on sur, except for one performance in the Agni Pariksha. It was unfortunate that she has not received any good breaks yet. Her mentors, Jatin Lalit, did not have anything to offer. Ismail Darbar is not the type of music director that get every other movie, like Himesh does.

Sharib - Sharib was one singer who improved as time progressed. Sharib's "Allah Ke Bande" and "Lagi Tumse Man Ki Lagan" were one of his "first hits." Sharib's voice quality was very different from everyone else. Sharib's voice quality was very unique that one couldn't place him in the "Rafisaab ki gharana" or "Kishoreda ki gharana" or any other style of singing. His later performances like "Aashiq Banaya Aapne", "Chaiya Chaiya" and "Neele Neele Ambar Par" were definitely one of the noteworthy hits he sang while he was on Challenge 2005. We all hope to hear him sing with Lataji; an honor that will shine in his life.

Rajeev - Rajeev was one interesting singer to consider. His voice had a very strong force in there. As many mentors and judges had pointed out in the past, his voice definitely suits a hero. Despite the great voice quality, his range was a tad limited. When it is described that a person's range is limited, it means that their "scale of comfort" is not high. Limited scale does NOT mean inability to sing high pitches. Low notes caused trouble for him. He was not able to sing the song in the A.R. Rehman in the key of D. He sang really well in a higher key like F# or G. The chances of him going besur decreased as the sur of the hit the E to G range. If received the proper training, he can fix his tendency to go off-key and become a "Toofan" that will win over the hearts in Bollywood.

Twinkle - Strictly looking back at the Challenge, Twinkle was an "okay" singer. Her voice was a bit "husky" and not as "feminine" as many other contestants. In the prelim round, her "Tumhe Yaad Karte Karte" was outstanding. Lalit pointed out the problem of over-expression. "Saiyyan Chodo..." from the 1st charan showed out her tendency to put too much expression at the cost of sur. From that point, the type of songs like "Oh Babua" and "Daiyya mein yeh kaha aa phasi" and "shakalaka baby" hasn't really shown too much musical talent. From what forum members indicate from her pre-Challenge 2005 days, I think she definitely has potential given her day. If the current glamour, hype and performance did not come with the challenge, I think her chances of getting good quality numbers to render would be better and we can really analyze her singing objectively.

Ujjaini - Except for the "Black" song and few other Agni-Pariksha songs, there was not much to comment on. The Black song definitely showed the dynamics and power in her voice, along with the range it took for that song. For that song, it was difficult as it is not based on a single "raga." There were many grace-notes (vivadis) and because of the nature of the notes jumping around, it is difficult to even find the "Sa." If you ever encounter a song that finding a "Sa" becomes difficult, it either means 1) it is horribly off-key OR 2) it is so well composed to create a haunted feel. Sa implies stability. If the source of stability is gone, then it will bring out other unstable moods. Nonetheless, it was a brilliant performance! Her first few Agni Pariksha songs were not that impressive, as her sur really swayed around. It either means performance was put in front of singing or she had poor guidance by Himesh.

Paresh - Paresh is a an idol for all people who live outside of India. Like Swananda, it is not impossible to maintain our culture outside of India. As far as his singing is concerned, his voice quality was good, but it sounded like an older version of Vinit (Sonu-Rafi mould). He sounds decent when he sings songs by those two artists. If he tries to sing songs by other artists like Kishoreda or Sanuda, then it seems like he is trying to sing in their style and he misses too many notes. Except for "Jeene Ke Hai Char Din," his voice sounds restrained. If he sings more openly and does good riyaz to improve his singing on-sur, he'll do a great job!

Nihira - She was one of the last few contestants that really had a bright future. Singing wise, she has done an excellent job with her songs. In examining the girls on the Agni Pariksha face, she had a very mellow voice-quality, like Swananda, with very a feminine touch. She put great expressions in the songs she sang, except for the one fast-paced Punjabi song. She has a nice range, as she shown in singing "I love you.. Hare Rama Hare Krishna." SRGMP is indeed in a loss losing her. I hope music directors will see this "loss" as a gain for them and use her voice in good quality compositions.

Himani - If one were to make a spectrum of the girl's voices, one end would be Nihira with the very feminine voice, while the other end would be Himani with the very tomboyish voice. She has immense power in her voice, if used correctly. She has slipped on her sur a few times, although that number was not in excess to her good performances. Her range was very low, was not as limited as few other female competitors.

Hemachandra - He has a very high range with a great classical base. He very rarely ever slips off sur. People often compared him to S.P. Balasubramaniam or Hariharan. Yet, whenever he sings compositions by other artsts, he still comes out performing pretty well. He is not influenced by the original singer, while Shaan often points out. He also a nice bass voice which is really needed in today's film industry! Only thing needing consideration is his diction. Some days, he's really good, but other days like his "Aao Twist Kare", words like "uthi" sound like "ooty."

Vineet - Vineet sings pretty well, as far as his sur is concerned. Like with few other male contestants, I have rarely ever heard him go besur. Amongst all of the contendors, his voice is very close to Sonu Nigam, which will be to his undoing. He has a good upper range, like in songs like "Fiza," "Tera Jadoo Chal Gaya", and "Patta Patta." It cannot be ignored that he is a Sonu-Rafi clone. I hope he eventually develop into his own style, or else he won't be needed so long Sonu Nigam is there or Mohammad Aziz is still alive doing Rafi shows.

Debojeet - Strictly speaking in terms of the challenge, his performance was not 100% consistent. Nonetheless, his voice quality is not that bad. He is often viewed as a "Kishore Kumar" or a "Manna-da", but it is difficult trying to find a link. I can see how he is inspired by them through his style of singing. He had his days where his performances were not up to par, but he ultimately will have his days of great performances like "Mere Naina Sawan Bhado" or "Rimjhim Gire Sawan." Let's not forget the qawali that took place. He did a great job with the taans, and other classical facets of the song. With the way the competition goes, who knows what will happen to Debojeet.

kishore_bhakta thumbnail
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Posted: 19 years ago
#14

Originally posted by: sree's sree


You Play 20 stringed instrument?

I don't play 20 stringed instruments solely, but I do play many stringed instruments like sitar, esraj, banjo, tanpura, vina, and the North Indian guitar. Among other instruments, I play tabla, pakhawaj, khol, bongos, congas, dholak, harmonium, keyboards, and other miscellaneous instruments.

N Sinha thumbnail
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Posted: 19 years ago
#15
Now that was an awesome analysis, thanks KB ji, hope many more to come.
N Sinha thumbnail
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Posted: 19 years ago
#16

Originally posted by: kishore_bhakta

I don't play 20 stringed instruments solely, but I do play many stringed instruments like sitar, esraj, banjo, tanpura, vina, and the North Indian guitar. Among other instruments, I play tabla, pakhawaj, khol, bongos, congas, dholak, harmonium, keyboards, and other miscellaneous instruments.



WOW..........!!
👏
N Sinha thumbnail
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Posted: 19 years ago
#17
you are certainly one of the last few to play Esroj.
simplyskud thumbnail
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Posted: 19 years ago
#18
Kishore_Bhakta ji .... Awesome post !!!

Hats off to you and considering your age and your talents, I can only say ... I wish I could be in the same league ...

We Indians need more people like you ... musicians like you, doctors like Sinha ji and scientists like Abhi (AD) ....

👏
-Believe- thumbnail
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Posted: 19 years ago
#19

Originally posted by: N Sinha



WOW..........!!
👏

me 2....I mean me too watch how to play all 20 instruments😉.....

Edited by Believe - 19 years ago
SACHINS-FAN thumbnail
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Posted: 19 years ago
#20

Originally posted by: kishore_bhakta

Hello Friends! I thought I include some educational material on the instruments of North India.

From the creation of the universe, the most interesting facet was the concept of sound (nada). In all forms of nature, animate or inanimate, visible or invisible, there is some form of sound present. A human being cannot understand the dog whistle, but a dog will react when this whistle is being played. It is not that the sound does not exist to us, but it is beyond our capacity to hear.

In nature, there are many kinds of sounds, but there are seven representative sounds that exists. The seven sounds of nature are known as suddha swars.

The seven suddha swars are

Sadja, Rsabha, Gandhara, Madhyama, Panchama, Dhaivata, and Nisada.

More commonly known as Sa, Re, Ga, Ma, Pa, Dha, and Ni.

In nature, Sa comes from the sound of the peacock, Re comes from the skylark, Ga from the goat, Ma from the heron, Pa from the nightingale, Dha from the horse, and Ni from the elephant. But nature is not limited to animal sounds. It is also in the form of colors too. These notes also represent colors. Sa is the lotus leaf, Re is red, Ga is golden, Ma in kundan powder, Pa is black, Dha is yellow, and Ni is all of them combined.

Of the seven notes, "Sa" is the most firm note. Without sa, the entire saptak falls apart. The name for Sa is "sadja." It comes from the Sanskrit "sad + aja." In Sanskrit, "Sad" means "six", while "aja" means creator of. The other six notes (R G m P D and N) cannot have true definition unless Sa is defined, because the position of Sa will define where Re, Ga, ma, Pa, Dha, and Ni fall. The next firm note is "Pa." The union of "Sa" and "Pa" represents the perfect union, the perfect harmony. It is so perfect, that madhyam cannot have this fortune of being "achal" (non-moveable).

From the seven notes, there are also hidden notes are not directly from nature, but can be derived from it. Through murchana (transposition) of the saptak (S R G m P D N), five extra notes come out. Flat re, Flat ga, sharp Ma, flat dha, and flat ni. These five notes are known as vikrta swars. The entire sargam is S r R g G m M P d D n N S'.

Up to this point, Western and Indian music will agree of at least 12 notes. But Indian music will divide further into micro-tones called "srutis." There are 22 shrutis. There is a Sanskrit verse explaining the srutis.

"catus catus catus-caiva

sadja madhyama pancamam

dvai dvai nisada gandharau

tristra-rsabha dhaivatah"

There are four srutis for Sa, Ma, and Pa; two srutis for Ni and Ga, and three for Re, and Dha.

4+4+4+2+2+3+3 = 12+4+6=22.

True Indian music uses these srutis. For instance, Raga Darbari Kanhada will use a very flattened version of "komal ga" and "komal dha." A harmonium cannot accurately show this. For sitar player, this special komal ga and dha is done by NOT using the ga or dha frets, but using the Re and Pa fret and doing a unique meend by pulling the string and creating an andolan (one of the requirements of this raga).

Later, I'll post something about ragas. These notes of nature are represented by colors. These colors paint a picture. This picture is called "raga." As Matanga Muni said, "raga is what colors the mind."

marvellous👏

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