Which versions did you want the serial to follow? - Page 3

Originally posted by: Vibhishna

Thanks for completing the differences. I didn't have time to include what cam in Valmiki Ramayan and I was not sure of some events in Valmiki Ramayan.

You're welcome. And thanks for correcting me on Ayomukhee. Just wonder whether Ananda Ramayan has some more wierd twists on her, just like they did on Shurps🤣

Originally posted by: Vibhishna

Here too Lakshman expresses his desire to go to the forest with Ram and seeks Sumitra's permission and blessings. Nothing is mentioned about Lakshman asking Urmila or even speaking to her before leaving for the forest. Does Valmiki Ramayan have a Lakshman - Urmila farewell before the 3 of them went to the forest? Besides, Sita was the one who first volunteers to go with Ram in Valmiki Ramayan, isn't it? Or was it Lakshman?

Sita first, then Lakshman. And no, there is no mention of Urmila in this section, not even sure whether Lakshman met either Urmila or Sumitra, although he more likely than not did.

Originally posted by: Vibhishna

I too have read that Kaikeyi dared not attend from Ramesh Menon's book. I read in another person's account that Queen Kaushalya and the rest of the women went for the funeral but it was not mentioned clearly as to whether Kaikeyi did attend the funeral. Some of the South Indian folktales and other authors and some dramas say that Kaikeyi was not allowed to attend as she was disowned by Dasarath.

They may have been right. But the surprising thing was - if that were the case, why was she allowed to accompany Bharat's retinue to the forest? Note that there is nothing in Valmiki matching either of the Sagar accounts (the previous serial had Kaushalya decreeing that Kaikeyi would come, overriding Bharat's objections, while in this serial, Kaushalya when forgiving Kaikeyi voluntarily asks her to accompany them. But there is nothing in Valmiki about Kaikeyi ever being forgiven, except after the war by Dasharath).

Originally posted by: Vibhishna

I thought Manthra came to meet Bharat and Shathrugan or she showed herself at the gate (didn't know which one) decked with a lot of jewels and as you said the gate keeper pushed her in and told Shathrugan that she was the reason for all the grief.

Correct!

Originally posted by: Vibhishna

I'm not sure of which bow he was using at that time. Going by the subtitles in the original Kambaramayan book I have, Ram's bow breaks and he gets the bow he left in Varun Dev's care. The prose version of Kambaramayan I have does not mention this at all.

I think, Ram breaks his own bow by his own strength - but I'm not sure. Couldn't interpret the verses correctly. Will get back with a proper translation.

Besides, isn't that the same bow Ram gives to Varun - the one he gets from Parasuram?

It is possible that Ram may have had another bow but not to take it when he faced an army of 14000 powerful demons is quite strange.

1. Two bows he and Lakshman got from Janak as a gift after marrying his daughters. (Wonder what Kushadhwaj gave Bharat & Shatrughan?) That would have been 1 bow for each of them.

2. Another he got from Parashurama in form of a challenge - Parashurama gave him Vishnu's bow (built along with Shiva's bow by Vishwakarma) and told him that if he could string it, he'd fight with him.

Any others? Also, when did Rama give Varuna any bow? Incidentally, Krishna's bow, was it previously used by Rama?

Originally posted by: Vibhishna

I agree with you regarding this (Vibhishan's meeting Hanuman). And in some versions, Vibhishan is said to have gone to every battle and was near Ram or Lakshman and telling them constantly which astra to use for retaliation of the Asura's attacks.

Yeah, and those don't make sense - Vibhishan did not have a knowledge of astras, although he did know the strong and weak points of his kinsmen. In a way, not only does this reflect badly on Vibhishan, it also belittles the achievements of Rama & Lakshaman, making it look as though they wouldn't have won the war w/o Vibhishan's tactical advice. This is only true in the case of Indrajit yagna and maybe some other cases like Bhashmalochan, but not much else.

Originally posted by: Vibhishna

Lakshman is revived from the Nagapasha by Garuda. Its for the Brahmastra, Hanuman gets the mountain.

Naagpash - actually, both Rama & Lakshman were downed, but Rama woke up by himself. It took Garuda to revive Lakshman.

Lakshman was only downed twice in the war - once along with Rama by the Naagpash of Indrajit, and the second time by Ravan with the Shakti. The first time, Garuda saved them, and the second time, Hanuman did. Also, in Valmiki, Hanuman is not the one who went to fetch Garuda, as shown in both serials: Garuda just happened to come there, as he was the personal vehicle to Vishnu. In fact, Hanuman was about to be sent to kshirsagar between Dronagiri and Chandragiri to fetch herbs, but Garuda arrived before he could set off, and his mere touch healed them.

(One curious comment that Rama made to Garuda when he saw him: "By meeting you thus, my heart is gladdened in the same manner as I am meeting Dasaratha, my father and Aja, my paternal grandfather." But Aja was dead long before Rama was born, wasn't he? 😕)

Originally posted by: Vibhishna

During the times Lakshman faints Ram is not there in the battle field along with Lakshman.

One other translation of Valmiki's Ramayan mentioned that Ram mourned for his brother but not breaking the Shakthi. I read about Ram breaking Ravan's shakthi only in Ramesh Menon's - here it is described that the weapon breaks when Ram touches it.

No mention of Sushen in Kamba Ramayana. It is described that when the smell (or the air around the herbs) reached the warriors they got up with their full strength. Hanuman brings the mountain twice - once when Lakshman was hit by the Brahmastra and once when he was hit by Ravan's Shakthi.

I thought that even in Valmiki Ramayan Hanuman goes on a quest for herbs twice - When Lakshman and Ram were hurt (am I right here?) by the Brahmastra, Hanuman is sent to the Himalayas to get the gerbs and when Ravan's Shakthi fells Lakshman Hanuman is sent to get herbs from the peak Mahodhya. This again is from Griffith's translation.

See above. Hanuman was about to be sent to undo the effect of the Naagpash, but Garuda appeared, so he didn't have to go and didn't go.

Originally posted by: ananyacool

Nice analysis going on between Valmiki Ramayan n other versions...

Thanx Vibs for the Kamban Ramayan part👏👍🏼; Thanx Chandra bhaiya for,an informativecomparison between Valmiki n Kamban Ramayanas.👍🏼👏

One question here :

In Valmiki Ramayan, Indrajeet doesn't fire Brahmastra, Pashupatastra and Narayanastra at Lakshman in his last duel...and then going to Ravan to tell that Ram n Lakshman are incarnate of Vishnu .

This part is from Ramcharitmanas, Is it found in Kamban Ramayana too??

In Kamban Ramayana when Sita maiyya enters agni, the agni emerges out n chides Rama, is it correct??

and Vibs, don't forget that you still owe us a treat...Ice-creams n cocktails.... whatelse have you got ?😆

Ananya

Even in RCM, I've seen nothing there about Indrajit going to Ravan to tell him that Lakshman & Rama are incarnations of Vishnu. He simply continues fighting until he is killed. Looks like our dear Ananda Ramayan produced this as well, just like it did Shambri (Shurpanakha's son), Ahiravan's saga and so on.

In the Valmiki Ramayan, however, Indrajit does re-enter Lanka to get another chariot (6-90-8) after his first one is destroyed by Lakshman killing his charioteer and Pramathi, Rabhasa, Sharabha and Gandhamadana killed his horses. He however doesn't go to meet Ravan.

A more notable thing that's there in Valmiki - in that final battle, Vibhishan himself takes part (6-89). It's ironic that while the various translations (and the Sagars) have represented Vibhishan as betraying Ravan even before he was humiliated in order to glorify him as a Ram bhakt, all of them seem to skip Vibhishan's actual participation in this battle, and seem to perpetuate a myth that Vibhishan, at the behest of Rama, was a non-combatant. I actually think that it was actually noble of Vibhishan to fight himself, as opposed to simply spilling his family secrets all the time, which required zero skills. In fact, Indrajit & Ravan are the only 2 instances where he himself fights. In this battle, he with his excellent archery skills killed several rakshashas. In 6-90, when Indrajit launches a counter attack on Vibhishan from a fresh chariot, Vibhishan attacks him and kills his horses (6-90-42) with his mace in retaliation for Indrajit's attack. He then attacks Indrajit with his arrows and penetrates him thoroughly. The battle then continued between Lakshman and Indrajit until the latter was killed. When he was killed, Vibhishan rejoiced at his death, and did not mourn him, as shown in the previous serial.

Vibs,

Does Vibhishan take part in the battle between Lakshman & Indrajit in Kamban's version?

P.S. Cocktails - your choice - bloody Mary, Pina Colada, Pacific Blue. Pick any.😆😆😆

Originally posted by: Vibhishna

I'm not sure of which bow he was using at that time. Going by the subtitles in the original Kambaramayan book I have, Ram's bow breaks and he gets the bow he left in Varun Dev's care. The prose version of Kambaramayan I have does not mention this at all.

I think, Ram breaks his own bow by his own strength - but I'm not sure. Couldn't interpret the verses correctly. Will get back with a proper translation.

Besides, isn't that the same bow Ram gives to Varun - the one he gets from Parasuram?

It is possible that Ram may have had another bow but not to take it when he faced an army of 14000 powerful demons is quite strange.

Okay, you're right. 1-77-1 does say that Rama gave that bow to Varuna.

He doesn't break it - he strings it, and then fits an astra on the bow, and gives Parashurama the option of which one he wants to lose.

Valmiki never has any account of Rama's, or any of the brother's bow breaking.

Originally posted by: Chandraketu

Ananya

Even in RCM, I've seen nothing there about Indrajit going to Ravan to tell him that Lakshman & Rama are incarnations of Vishnu. He simply continues fighting until he is killed. Looks like our dear Ananda Ramayan produced this as well, just like it did Shambri (Shurpanakha's son), Ahiravan's saga and so on.

In the Valmiki Ramayan, however, Indrajit does re-enter Lanka to get another chariot (6-90-8) after his first one is destroyed by Lakshman killing his charioteer and Pramathi, Rabhasa, Sharabha and Gandhamadana killed his horses. He however doesn't go to meet Ravan.

A more notable thing that's there in Valmiki - in that final battle, Vibhishan himself takes part (6-89). It's ironic that while the various translations (and the Sagars) have represented Vibhishan as betraying Ravan even before he was humiliated in order to glorify him as a Ram bhakt, all of them seem to skip Vibhishan's actual participation in this battle, and seem to perpetuate a myth that Vibhishan, at the behest of Rama, was a non-combatant. I actually think that it was actually noble of Vibhishan to fight himself, as opposed to simply spilling his family secrets all the time, which required zero skills. In fact, Indrajit & Ravan are the only 2 instances where he himself fights. In this battle, he with his excellent archery skills killed several rakshashas. In 6-90, when Indrajit launches a counter attack on Vibhishan from a fresh chariot, Vibhishan attacks him and kills his horses (6-90-42) with his mace in retaliation for Indrajit's attack. He then attacks Indrajit with his arrows and penetrates him thoroughly. The battle then continued between Lakshman and Indrajit until the latter was killed. When he was killed, Vibhishan rejoiced at his death, and did not mourn him, as shown in the previous serial.

Vibs,

Does Vibhishan take part in the battle between Lakshman & Indrajit in Kamban's version?

P.S. Cocktails - your choice - bloody Mary, Pina Colada, Pacific Blue. Pick any.😆😆😆

Originally posted by: ananyacool

Oh, thanks for the details👏

I always thought that part of Indrajeet's battle came from RCM.

Vibhishan participating in battle is almost unknown; he is always protrayed as a sober character and yup ,other versions depicting him as meeting Hanuman before shows him as a Ram-bhakt but it also portrays his character otherwise, as though he was scheming to join Ramji even before he was kicked out by Ravan.

Thanks for the choices of cocktails, i'll pick all!! one at a time😉but Vibs still owes a treat😆😆

Yeah, it's amazing how people who re-wrote the Ramayan thought they were doing Vibhishan and others a favor, when in fact they were undermining their reputations.😕

Okay, as long as you're not mixing those cocktails😆😆 Vibs, how about the treat here, rather than the Doubts & Discussions thread?😉😆

Originally posted by: Chandraketu

Yeah, it's amazing how people who re-wrote the Ramayan thought they were doing Vibhishan and others a favor, when in fact they were undermining their reputations.😕

Okay, as long as you're not mixing those cocktails😆😆 Vibs, how about the treat here, rather than the Doubts & Discussions thread?😉😆