Doubts and Discussions from the Ramayan II - Page 30

Originally posted by: chen2chic

So, if the war would start in 2012, do we all survive the annihilation or not? 😉😆

Interesting speculation on this topic though.

Originally posted by: _LalithaJanaki_

I have a question from Ramcharitmanas:

When Luv Kush fight their uncles, do they only fight LBS and tie up Hanuman or do they fight with their cousins too? Was it a "fight to kill" or only to defeat the opponent? And do Ram and Luv Kush actually fight or does Valmiki intervene and prevent the battle before it happens?

Lalitha

Akhl pointed out to me that the 'Luv-Kush kand', as it's called, ain't there in RCM: I agree w/ him. That said, in the version I read, which was a printed, not an online edition, there was this chapter of Uttarkand, which was on the narration of the Ramayan by Kaagbhushandi to Garud. However, that book did have an appendix that had the Luv-Kush kand - I suspect it may have been from Adhyatma, but not having read Adhyatma itself, I can't tell. Maybe Khalrika-di can fill us in?

In it, Kush & Luv did not fight their cousins: however, they did fight not just SLB in that order, but also the vanaras - Hanuman, Sugriv, Angad, and guess who - Vibhishan as well!!! One of the things I found strange about that account - in it, Luv insulted Angad for serving the killers of his father and delivering his mother into the arms of Sugriv, but even more inexplicably, insulting Vibhishan for betraying Ravan. (Somehow, there is nothing in this version of Kush or Luv being taught the Ramayan - if they were, wouldn't they have known that Rama's victory would have been next to impossible w/o Vibhishan's support?) At any rate, Luv made short work of both Angad and Vibhishan.

Everyone whom they defeated were just unconscious, not killed. When they met Rama, they did fire arrows at him, which Rama kept parrying, since he didn't feel like shooting anything. But finally, when Rama's patience was worn down, he put a divyastra on his bow and was about to fire it at them when Valmiki intervened. Also, when Sita heard about this, she resorted to her usual self-flaggelation exercises.

The above is just one version of K-L's fight with Rama. Other versions I read have it that when Rama asked them who their parents were and they replied that Sita was their mother, Rama fainted, and they removed his crown and took it to Sita.

None of these stories are believable. Also, what's even more inexplicable was why Sita went to Rasatal. In the Valmiki account, she had a good reason to, and arguably, no choice, but in these cases, she seemed to have gone under ground for one of the following reasons:

1. She was tired😕
2. She didn't want to be disappointed🤔
3. Rama seemed reluctant to take her back, despite pleas from Valmiki😡
4. In the above story, Rama asked Lakshman to go and get an oath from Sita re: her chastity, but not in the presense of anyone. That was when Sita went underground, and Lakshaman took K-L and returned to Rama😡

Needless to say, I find all of the above absolute versions tripe (even if Tulsidas did write it), and give it no more credibility than I give the Ananda Ramayan.

Originally posted by: Khalrika

😆 😆 😆 No war in 2012! Just a bunch of whacko end of worlders trying to fit Kalki puran to Mayan calendar just like the Sagars r fitting Sindabad to Ramayan.

Originally posted by: Chandraketu

Lalitha

Akhl pointed out to me that the 'Luv-Kush kand', as it's called, ain't there in RCM: I agree w/ him. That said, in the version I read, which was a printed, not an online edition, there was this chapter of Uttarkand, which was on the narration of the Ramayan by Kaagbhushandi to Garud. However, that book did have an appendix that had the Luv-Kush kand - I suspect it may have been from Adhyatma, but not having read Adhyatma itself, I can't tell. Maybe Khalrika-di can fill us in?

In it, Kush & Luv did not fight their cousins: however, they did fight not just SLB in that order, but also the vanaras - Hanuman, Sugriv, Angad, and guess who - Vibhishan as well!!! One of the things I found strange about that account - in it, Luv insulted Angad for serving the killers of his father and delivering his mother into the arms of Sugriv, but even more inexplicably, insulting Vibhishan for betraying Ravan. (Somehow, there is nothing in this version of Kush or Luv being taught the Ramayan - if they were, wouldn't they have known that Rama's victory would have been next to impossible w/o Vibhishan's support?) At any rate, Luv made short work of both Angad and Vibhishan.

Everyone whom they defeated were just unconscious, not killed. When they met Rama, they did fire arrows at him, which Rama kept parrying, since he didn't feel like shooting anything. But finally, when Rama's patience was worn down, he put a divyastra on his bow and was about to fire it at them when Valmiki intervened. Also, when Sita heard about this, she resorted to her usual self-flaggelation exercises. Looks like this version was used in the Telugu/Tamil movie LavaKusa...

The above is just one version of K-L's fight with Rama. Other versions I read have it that when Rama asked them who their parents were and they replied that Sita was their mother, Rama fainted, and they removed his crown and took it to Sita. What was Sita's reaction to this? Does it say?

None of these stories are believable. Also, what's even more inexplicable was why Sita went to Rasatal. In the Valmiki account, she had a good reason to, and arguably, no choice, but in these cases, she seemed to have gone under ground for one of the following reasons:

She was tired😕 She didn't want to be disappointed🤔 Rama seemed reluctant to take her back, despite pleas from Valmiki😡
1. In the above story, Rama asked Lakshman to go and get an oath from Sita re: her chastity, but not in the presense of anyone. That was when Sita went underground, and Lakshaman took K-L and returned to Rama😡So, only Lakshman & K-L were present when she went underground? Whom did she prove to then?

Needless to say, I find all of the above absolute versions tripe (even if Tulsidas did write it), and give it no more credibility than I give the Ananda Ramayan. I second this 100%

Khalrika & Chen2

You really know how to disappoint a guy! 😭With recession, terrorism and everything else, I was really rooting for Kalki to arrive sooner rather than later,😈 and you push out his appearance to 500,000 years? Heck, the sun may have expanded by then and incinerated the earth, no?

And I'd have gotten his darshan as well, but now, looks like out of the question😭

Originally posted by: chen2chic

😆....... I getexactlywhat yousay!

Originally posted by: Chandraketu

Khalrika & Chen2

You really know how to disappoint a guy! 😭With recession, terrorism and everything else, I was really rooting for Kalki to arrive sooner rather than later,😈 and you push out his appearance to 500,000 years? Heck, the sun may have expanded by then and incinerated the earth, no?

And I'd have gotten his darshan as well, but now, looks like out of the question😭

Okay, here's the next question (post#300 of this thread!)

Was the Ashwamedha yagna the first yagna Rama conducted as ruler? In Sarg 99, it states that after Sita's passing, every year, he performed an yagna for the well being of his subjects.

However, before Sita was exiled, Rama ruled for 10000 years, and wasn't it the fact that the ideal fruits of Rama rajya were there even then i.e. nobody died or got widowed, everybody was prosperous, sons respected their parents, etc? Then the question arises - did Rama perform any yagnas during that period before he performed the Ashwamedha yagna?

Also, when Rama did perform those post-Sita yagnas, were they done to atone for the suffering that Sita had to go through, or where they routine yagnas?

P.S. Chen2, I'll let you know what I find out re: your questions above.

Originally posted by: Chandraketu

Okay, here's the next question (post#300 of this thread!)

Was the Ashwamedha yagna the first yagna Rama conducted as ruler? In Sarg 99, it states that after Sita's passing, every year, he performed an yagna for the well being of his subjects.

However, before Sita was exiled, Rama ruled for 10000 years, and wasn't it the fact that the ideal fruits of Rama rajya were there even then i.e. nobody died or got widowed, everybody was prosperous, sons respected their parents, etc? Then the question arises - did Rama perform any yagnas during that period before he performed the Ashwamedha yagna?

Also, when Rama did perform those post-Sita yagnas, were they done to atone for the suffering that Sita had to go through, or where they routine yagnas?

P.S. Chen2, I'll let you know what I find out re: your questions above.

Originally posted by: _LalithaJanaki_

Ram ruled for 10,000 years before Sita was exiled?😕