Pehla Pyar- Rehaan Vs Shaad- Can you compare love?

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chicksoup

@chicksoup

Sparkler

+ 4

Posted: 10 years ago

#81

Originally posted by: vm17
you have written about ppela pyar.
Rehan-He was an impartial guy.whenever Sanam ranted to him about jallad jinn,he would tell her that Ahil was'nt bad his upbringing was.He was faithful to Ahil.He fell for Sanam as he considered himself an employee and Sanam was also an employee.He was impressed when Sanam saved Badi begum from snake and praised her for it.he was serious about the relationship.only he did'nt confess to Sanam and talked to Dilshad first,He had dilshad's blessings When dilshad was called to IM she was thinking about Rehan and got a rude shock when Dilsahd proposed Ahil's name.Rehan was a simple person and was contented.He was'nt after riches.He wanted to marrry Sanam and bought an engagement ring after Ahil's nikah was decided.I loved that kahania humey chunti hain scene between Ahil and Rehan.
When Sanam got married to Ahil he was bitter and angry.Tanveer played upon his feelings by telling him that nikah would be over in 3 months.Then he realized that Sanam did'nt love him she considered him as someone to whom she could speak freely.On EID he got Sanam bangles,but when Ahil was angry at him he left home.He met seher.He called Sanam and checked with her and knew this was a different girl .He fell for her bcoz she as identical in loksbut he found himself comparing the two.Seher was'nt like Sanam still he fel for her.Sanam remained a close friend til the end.
Shaad-He just came across jannat.she is a pretty face for him and he told a lie to save her but she stuck herself eith him.saying that she does'nt remember anything.
Shaad does'nt know anything about her and has fallen for her

🤗

I said pehla pyar- to point out one thing. Love can happen twice...or more than that too.😉

If Rehaan found love again, Shaad could too...👏

And thanks for summing up Rehaan so beautifully. Agree with what U wrote on Shaad too. It is more like a crush he is obsessing over.

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micshy

@micshy

Dazzler

Posted: 10 years ago

#82

Originally posted by: KhatamKahani

@bold. See this is what I object to. Why is this said? Because "Jannat" is someone else's wife. But that's *NOT* the biggest wrong or issue here. If she were single, it would all be okay? (Though, yeah that's the thought that had and has been expressed many a times). Yet by focusing on just that aspect his actions are again and again not looked at for what they are.

He should find love later, preferably with a woman who is not lied to by him and with him because she's she's been deceived into thinking she's his wife.

He keeps getting passes no one else has ever gotten, and he's doing something worse than any of them have done (aside from outright villains I mean).

I thought and thought about what has been said here,

And i questioned myself, m i finding it wrong just because Sanam is someone else's wife n if she was a single person would i hv mot felt the same way about it ...

Hmmm a very important fact to ponder about,,,,,,

The fact is then the dimensions of the newly found couple would be definitely different,,,,,,

Here Jannat will never be shown to develop feelings fr this new guy, but in that case the makers would hv developed a story in such a way that even if she had someone else previously, her feelings fr the new guy will always be strong ...

And after regaining her memory, same old drama would repeat. The guy will feel guilty. And he would apologize to her, then girl at first would be angry and then as she would not be able to supress the feelings she developed fr him so in the end after having many a fights, n all she will forgive him...

Thats said about the story "where girl would firgive him because she has fallen fir him" no matter how odd, inhuman or delusional his behaviour would be, makers would have told the story in a way that their target audience would be satisfied at the end , will not have any hard feelings fr anyone...

OMG soup, i just realized now, what u were trying to say in that another post of u ...

See KK it will be wrong there too, Shaad's actions are wrong period , we dont connect wth him, n we will not, but a greater n major part of our anger stems fr the fact that "Sanam aka Jannat" is not given a choice... Shaad's actions are wrong but the way they have taken to portray is so contrived that one cant help but feel deep anger at him

In this story. Sanam belongs to someone else. So basically there aint a choice here. Even if it would be, makers would have to go extra miles to really make us come across a character n a story where u feel so strong about both the guys...

But fr that matter the new guy has to be written out properly...

N the new guy has to be developed proplerly...

Soup i got what u were trying to say now...

Getting in love with ur captor is quite a taboo concept ,,,, Stockholm syndrome, but its upto the makers that how convincingly they tell their story so as to get most of the audience relate to what they are telling...

We hv in past too feel fr the flawed characters , but the execution is what actually makes a difference ...

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Mandy

@MrDarcyfan

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 10 years ago

#83

@mischy:

Stockholm syndrome. Identifying with one's captor. Yes it can happen. Empathy for the captor. It all is possible. But at the end, it is capture and no one can deny that.

I don't think the makers EVER wanted to show Sanam fall for this guy. Even as Jannat. There is no issue of "falling", coz all her care and love she shows towards him is done because of the "deception". She did not get to know Shaad as an independent person who she had NO relationship with and got to know slowly. THAT is how genuine relationships are formed. Not this way, where you tell someone a tall tale and a bunch of lies and get some sort of care from them through "Dhoka".

The makers are making clear from the start that Sanam is "projecting" to Shaad the emotions she has for Aahil. It is AAHIL she loves, not Shaad. She doesn't remember who she loves, but she knows she loves someone and he loves her. The mistake she is making is thinking it is Shaad, because he misled her and continues to mislead her into thinking that person is HIM! The suit, the apple pie, the balloon therapy. That very first convo when she told him "I always knew there was someone who loves me like crazy!" That was ALL for the man she truly loves. Shaad knows this too. THAT is how he realized this girl is involved with someone. Because he knows she is not talking about him.

She even once told him that she think her "husband" is in danger, that she feels she has "lost" something. But he has now conveniently decided to forget all that, because HE has decided he loves her and now what she wants or who she loves is not his concern. That is why I say this is not true love. True love always cares more about what the other person wants than what you want. That is not present here! Not even close.

Edited by MrDarcyfan - 10 years ago

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micshy

@micshy

Dazzler

Posted: 10 years ago

#84

Mandy yes its all a deception, i dint deny that, but if the majers intended to show this , then they should hv done it in a convincing way...

Here problem lies with the story itself. Writing itself,

I m not denying that Shaad's world is made up of delusions, n the person he has fallen for is not a reality ,

Its now pretty late fr me to think that how the makers would hv gone ahead with this concept itself , but see if they had let Jannat retain "Sanam's personality" , if they had made Jannat feeling suspicious or uncomfortable with Shaad initially while he had decided to lie to her, it would have been much much better, if they had shown him totally emotionless and a calculative guy since the beginning, the one who donot really care fr anyone but his own "obssession" a monologue or a two would not have hurt ... Then keeping her with him due to his own reasons n selfishness over SK obssession,,,,,,, n while Jannat would be trying to decipher whats goung on, he should hv been shown to maintain a distance frm her not affected by her a bit initially, but with time he will start loosen up, they did not have to make her have a 180 degree change in her personality, Shaad falling for "Sanam" we knew would hv made some sense. Shaad slowly n steady falling fir "Sanam" in Jannat n then with time he starts questioning himself ... Leading to a climatic "Passionate confession" to himself, that how wrong he is, how wrong he has done to her, n show his suffering n repent over his actions...

I would hv found this storymuch more relatable or maybe i would hv felt bad fr Shaad too then,

The makers wrote a grey shaded character, they made him do all the wrong things but then they wanted to "White wash" his character so that they can "romantisice" this pretty horrible situation... How can any one find that convincing ?? Hes doung all the wrong things but he us right Its all a shitty mess now, they r neither here , nor there ...

Those who are anticipating SaHil meeting are not a bit intersted in "final showdown" between Shaad n Aahil ... Had they developed him properly i bet i would hv enjoyed a proper "Face off" between Shaad Aahil as much as i would hv enjoyed SaHil ... But right now i just want Aahil to beat the shit out of this guy n nothing else ... 😕

Edited by micshy - 10 years ago

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Mandy

@MrDarcyfan

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 10 years ago

#85

@Mic:

I know what you mean mate! They just did not build him up in the right way. They didnt show us how he was thinking, accept one or two times. They tried to "justify" him when there was no valid justification for his actions. That was the problem the whole time! Yes he is grey, but people wanted to pretend he was some sainted gentlemen, when the truth was far from it.

I just disliked how he had no respect for his Dad, the lectures and the hypocrisy after all the lies he told. The makers just made a HUGE mess of him, and never made it clear where he stood. We know he is selfish. But at least show us that he feels he is justified in his selfishness! The writing is SO weak! I cant believe these are the same people who wrote Haider! (Maybe they are not. You can see how poor the writing is. Terrible actually). They showed us his way of thinking and we even "rooted" for him! That is good writing and good execution! Ayaan? Half the time he was an ass, but most of the time the audience loved him!

Rehan was grey. He had his faults. He loved Sanam once upon a time too. But we all still appreciated his character. Sometimes he was dissed, but the writing around his character was always good. THIS was the most hopelessly done track this show has seen! (Other than RAHAFA, but at least that was pretty clear too). The whole Pak track is a shambles, starting from Shaad's wishy washy characterization to this SK business! It was SO badly done. They were trying to show a deception and violation as a "romance" and dismally failed. Giving Sanam a personality transplant and making her so "vacant" was their BIGGEST mistake. I think that is where they lost most people! Not even with Shaad! He is a new character after all. We dont feel as much for him anyway!

But Sanam? Now people feel sick of her as Jannat! THAT was a very bad move! Because Sanam was a very loved character and one of the strongest this show has ever seen! They should not have messed with her THIS much! This is unreal! She has memory loss. She has not died and been re-born as another person! LOL

Edited by MrDarcyfan - 10 years ago

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micshy

@micshy

Dazzler

Posted: 10 years ago

#86

Mandy lol Sanam ka punar janam as Jannat, it seems like this only 😆😆😆

Thats so true ... These writers cant be the same ones, i tgibk they hv a different team of writers n directors now ... As most of the good ones would be busy nurturing her new baby on SP now 😕😕 if she has to neglect it so much, why is she stubbornly wanting it to stay on air, n if she wants it to sray on air then why does she not supervise what shit are they showing 😡😡

I really cant wait fr this mess to be over soon, Seeing Shaad i feel like hitting him hard really , this Shaad n SK thing is so off 😕

SaHil should meet now. Its high time, even they would hv realized it by now that they dont have anything else left to sell apart frm SaHil

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Mandy

@MrDarcyfan

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 10 years ago

#87

Originally posted by: micshy
Mandy lol Sanam ka punar janam as Jannat, it seems like this only 😆😆😆
Thats so true ... These writers cant be the same ones, i tgibk they hv a different team of writers n directors now ... As most of the good ones would be busy nurturing her new baby on SP now 😕😕 if she has to neglect it so much, why is she stubbornly wanting it to stay on air, n if she wants it to sray on air then why does she not supervise what shit are they showing 😡😡
I really cant wait fr this mess to be over soon, Seeing Shaad i feel like hitting him hard really , this Shaad n SK thing is so off 😕

SaHil should meet now. Its high time, even they would hv realized it by now that they dont have anything else left to sell apart frm SaHil

Yes. They messed Shaad so much, that now when you see him have that vacant lost expression, you feel like giving him a punch and asking him to get a life! THAT is how badly they messed up this track! I am sure this is not the reaction they were going for! All the fake gushing at the start I think gave the makers the wrong impression and they continued to just show meaningless BS without showing us where this track was going, or paying attention to the important "Story" aspect!

Then they had the strong reaction to "Hook-gate" and they realised there were a LOT of people in the audience who did not appreciate the way they were portraying the violation of a female's trust through deception! That's when they woke up and cut out some of the cheap trash they were planning to show in this track, which was really not needed! (I still dont know what they were smoking, to do that scene. Not when even genuine couples never got anything that cheap looking). Well if they were a genuine couple it would NOT be cheap looking. That is the whole point!

Yes if Flower cant invest her good writers and crew on this show, then why is she running it just to make money to invest in her next venture? If you want to run something, do it RIGHT! This is why the last few shows done by 4 Lions has failed so badly. Their concepts are good, but execution fell short each time. Humsafars was a disaster. Towards the middle it started to get stretched and meaningless and then it turned into crap and was axed! I only watched most of it after I heard it was ending. Never could get into it. It just did not have the same feeling I used to get from 4 Lions shows! You could tell they were trying "Too hard!". Almost like this Shajan stuff. They were trying from the start "too hard" to make this all look romantic. They never tried this hard with ASYA or SAHIL. They just built up over time and was organic. This was not. That is one of the reasons a lot of people didnt like it!

Yes only SAHIL can save this show now!

Edited by MrDarcyfan - 10 years ago

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chicksoup

@chicksoup

Sparkler

+ 4

Posted: 10 years ago

#88

Originally posted by: MrDarcyfan
@mischy:
Stockholm syndrome. Identifying with one's captor. Yes it can happen. Empathy for the captor. It all is possible. But at the end, it is capture and no one can deny that.

I don't think the makers EVER wanted to show Sanam fall for this guy. Even as Jannat. There is no issue of "falling", coz all her care and love she shows towards him is done because of the "deception". She did not get to know Shaad as an independent person who she had NO relationship with and got to know slowly. THAT is how genuine relationships are formed. Not this way, where you tell someone a tall tale and a bunch of lies and get some sort of care from them through "Dhoka".

The makers are making clear from the start that Sanam is "projecting" to Shaad the emotions she has for Aahil. It is AAHIL she loves, not Shaad. She doesn't remember who she loves, but she knows she loves someone and he loves her. The mistake she is making is thinking it is Shaad, because he misled her and continues to mislead her into thinking that person is HIM! The suit, the apple pie, the balloon therapy. That very first convo when she told him "I always knew there was someone who loves me like crazy!" That was ALL for the man she truly loves. Shaad knows this too. THAT is how he realized this girl is involved with someone. Because he knows she is not talking about him.

She even once told him that she think her "husband" is in danger, that she feels she has "lost" something. But he has now conveniently decided to forget all that, because HE has decided he loves her and now what she wants or who she loves is not his concern. That is why I say this is not true love. True love always cares more about what the other person wants than what you want. That is not present here! Not even close.

👏

Excellent. Mandy.😳

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chicksoup

@chicksoup

Sparkler

+ 4

Posted: 10 years ago

#89

Originally posted by: micshy
Mandy yes its all a deception, i dint deny that, but if the majers intended to show this , then they should hv done it in a convincing way...
Here problem lies with the story itself. Writing itself,

I m not denying that Shaad's world is made up of delusions, n the person he has fallen for is not a reality ,

Its now pretty late fr me to think that how the makers would hv gone ahead with this concept itself , but see if they had let Jannat retain "Sanam's personality" , if they had made Jannat feeling suspicious or uncomfortable with Shaad initially while he had decided to lie to her, it would have been much much better, if they had shown him totally emotionless and a calculative guy since the beginning, the one who donot really care fr anyone but his own "obssession" a monologue or a two would not have hurt ... Then keeping her with him due to his own reasons n selfishness over SK obssession,,,,,,, n while Jannat would be trying to decipher whats goung on, he should hv been shown to maintain a distance frm her not affected by her a bit initially, but with time he will start loosen up, they did not have to make her have a 180 degree change in her personality, Shaad falling for "Sanam" we knew would hv made some sense. Shaad slowly n steady falling fir "Sanam" in Jannat n then with time he starts questioning himself ... Leading to a climatic "Passionate confession" to himself, that how wrong he is, how wrong he has done to her, n show his suffering n repent over his actions...

I would hv found this storymuch more relatable or maybe i would hv felt bad fr Shaad too then,

The makers wrote a grey shaded character, they made him do all the wrong things but then they wanted to "White wash" his character so that they can "romantisice" this pretty horrible situation... How can any one find that convincing ?? Hes doung all the wrong things but he us right Its all a shitty mess now, they r neither here , nor there ...

Those who are anticipating SaHil meeting are not a bit intersted in "final showdown" between Shaad n Aahil ... Had they developed him properly i bet i would hv enjoyed a proper "Face off" between Shaad Aahil as much as i would hv enjoyed SaHil ... But right now i just want Aahil to beat the shit out of this guy n nothing else ... 😕

Mic,

They tried to make Jannat LIGHT and FLUFFY...because the beginning of the new season had too much negativity.

Ahil's life was a mess...so they wanted it to be a cute story of a Major who fell for his beautiful subject...but it FELL FLAT. I can assure U no one would have related to Jannat or Shaad, except for the fans who were desperate to see Sanam with someone else for various reasons. (And those are people who denied Sanam her 'My Choice'. Sanam chose Ahil at the end of Season 2, in spite of the betrayals..who are we to question her choices? 😉The moment we start questioning the FL's choices in a Gul show..U have lost connect with the show. This is just BTW and my sadness at the way the lead couple was thrashed by the forum and not to point fingers at anyone.)

That did get us forum readers riled up for sure...but if U R a casual viewer who related to Sahil...I think that category'd react to an extent too...Like the Hook scene would have been the last straw..., but the large majority can take it better than US.

They couldn't make Jannat suspicious of Shaad...Because that'd make Shad too negative..They don't want that. So they made it look like circumstances AIDED him..egged him on..TEMPTED HIM...He just went along...where he should have kept a distance.

This is where I wonder if anyone has understood what I have been trying to say.😳 At times people think I am trying to find some goodness in Shaad..I accept that he is not dark.He is more of a white...but he is VERY VERY wrong here.

Now, hopefully what I write makes sense to U and makes the picture clearer to U...

As wrong as a third person coming in between a married and committed couple...declaring it is HIS CHOICE that he fell in love with the wife...and IF the wife were to have some reciprocation in some small way...

ADULTERY.

TEMPTATION.

Where they did well was to actually take the CHOICE OUT OF SANAM. It is not in her hands...she just believed a story she was told. (Loved how Mandy beautifully explained that.👏)

Where they failed was in the execution of the whole track...Right from that weak and dumb Phoophi to SK revealed to viewers too soon...and finally rushing in with the development of Shaad's feelings. Why did we relate to Haider (I had the same comparison.) Because we knew his motives ..We did not agree with his methods, but connected to his emotions...BECAUSE...That was where the story started...The Doll Factory Fire...That is the story we had been told about for months...and we absolutely sympathised with Zoya and anyone who wanted revenge for her sake.

They should have developed Shaad over months for viewers to connect to him...Instead we got a half baked story...and to be frank, I was imagining Mohit or someone else doing this role.

Back to ADULTERY and TEMPTATION.

If I ask U if U can hear MITWAA (not the Asya one)...Would U be able to understand what I am saying?

Can you hear Mitwaa?😊...(I mean..far far away...probably weeks later.😳)

Edited by chicksoup - 10 years ago

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KhatamKahani

@KhatamKahani

Stunner

Posted: 10 years ago

#90

Micshy, that's why I kept saying portrayal and execution is not fitting to the story or subject matter.

If you want to show a love story in such a situation, it doesn't work unless you acknowledge and portray the situation as it is. You need the characters to act accordingly to the situation. But here no such thing is happening. Neither is the situation acknowledged and portrayed as what it is, nor is the character (Shaad) behaving according to the situation. Only explanation for this is that Shaad is delusional and has bought into his own imaginary world to a large extent. But even then, that needs to be shown and portrayed--which they do not do.

And as I said, if it works for a single woman, it will just be just as valid for a married woman. She could easily decide to end her first marriage and choose the second relationship, just as the single woman would choose the first.

Also, what Shaad is doing is also criminal and this is also not acknowledged or addressed. When it is going to be addressed, it will be other things which take precedence and not his act of keeping the woman essentially captive.

******************************************

Jannat feeling her husband in Shaad, yes they showed that in the beginning, but not anymore. There is no link to S2 or Aahil, SaHil in the Pak track right now, hasn't been for a while. Only "Jannat being Indian" is it...but that is not even connected to S2 or Aahil, really.

Only link to SaHil right now comes from Aahil not "Jannat."

**********************

Soup, they cannot go the route you are saying with Shaad the wishy-washy character he is portrayed as now, with no clear indication or set stance on him being negative, grey or mentally imbalanced. It will not work.