Just to clear up some things about Nikkah

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LaVita-E-Bella

@LaVita-E-Bella

Dazzler

Posted: 11 years ago

#21

Originally posted by: bheegi
There is still a lot of confusion about this nikaah topic. Hope Gul clears it quickly. At least put out a statement in the press regarding what makes a valid Mulsim nikaah

I just PM'd a Muslim friend from Pak and this is her reply:

jub nikkah howa hi nahy ap agay chay nikkah nama sign karwa lo ya yeh qubool karwa lo kay you are husband n wife nikkah is not valid
what he asking them that qabool kartay ho kay tum dunno mian biwi ho it doent mean that he is reciting nikkah
aap episode any do ..aisay forcefully sign karwany say ya mian biwi munwany say nikkah nahy hotay islam m ..evn on gun point ager ap qubool hai bol do tw nikkah vaild nahy hota

I was actually talking to one of my friends today who is also Muslim, but Arab Muslim, and my bhabhi who is desi. There still are different viewpoints from many scholars on what exactly is required for the Nikkah. The basic things as I mentioned are necessary and are what everyone agrees on, but then there are minor things as well. The biggest as I said, if two people are unaware and forced into it, it is considered invalid. You're friend is right. I actually really hope Gul clears the air too, but not sure if she will, maybe if enough people write to them. She should see how much of confusion she is creating.

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samiya.059

@samiya.059

Dazzler

Posted: 11 years ago

#22

Originally posted by: Xarina

There is also a custom among some village imams whereby they do not ask the bride if she agrees to the nikkah. She is made to recite a khutba and then it is deemed that the nikkah is valid. Looks like different areas have different traditions.😕

unless a girl doesn't say a yes ..the nikah isn't valid...even if father would say yes still girl has to give her consent
shariyah is universal...its same everywhere...rituals can b different but rules laid down by shariyah to validate the nikah r same..

Edited by samiya.059 - 11 years ago

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LaVita-E-Bella

@LaVita-E-Bella

Dazzler

Posted: 11 years ago

#23

Originally posted by: RandomSquared
i think the most important thing here is for everyone to understand that this fictional tv show has taken fiction to a whole other level and their version of an islamic nikaah is not at all real. also it seems not one person in all of bhopal has read the Qur'an in this show
its ok i mean im sure many things shown in other tv shows are valid in terms of the hindu religion or any other religion. but i just wish they hadnt shown something like this bc it seems it is actually giving people the wrong idea about islam and the islamic way.

You're right. It is a fictional show, but I don't think the writers realize how much confusion they create in the audience about it all. Hence this post, so I could clear some of the doubts people are having.

I have never took anything seriously on the show, because I knew that the show is just based on Muslims, not Islam, and in reality no Muslim is perfect. There are many Muslims out there who bring in different traditions and don't follow everything by the book.

But I disagree with other tv shows. I think there have been many tv shows that have probably done similar things and not followed everything by the religion. Remember IPKKND?

Edited by LaVita-E-Bella - 11 years ago

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LaVita-E-Bella

@LaVita-E-Bella

Dazzler

Posted: 11 years ago

#24

Originally posted by: janestone6
Di she/he is absolutely right. It is totally your wish. You can't force someone to sign the nikha nama or in short you can't force someone into marriage. Islam doesn't allow forced marriages. Asad forcing Zoya is not right. I highly doubt if Gul knows anything about the nikha topic. Warna she wouldn't have shown the community marriage fiasco

Yup, forced marriages are not considered marriages at all. In Islam if a marriage is forced, the couple are living a life of sin, because Islamically they are not considered Husband and Wife.

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LaVita-E-Bella

@LaVita-E-Bella

Dazzler

Posted: 11 years ago

#25

Originally posted by: -Shayari-
Exactly why I think there's only one thing left that would invalidate it. If Asya are already married.

As much as I wish that was the case, it probably won't be lol

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samiya.059

@samiya.059

Dazzler

Posted: 11 years ago

#26

Originally posted by: LaVita-E-Bella

Aw I'm really sorry that you had to go through that Xarina.
Customs and what is supposed to be performed during the nikkah Islamically are very different. Every area and culture has their own customs that they perform during the wedding. Arabs for example, some of them say a line in Arabic during the nikkah like we say "Qubool Hai". There are stories though of back then during the Prophet's (PBUH) time that if the girl remained silent it meant she was okay with it because of a story of his daughter. But things have changed and so have many rules. I'm not a scholar so I don't know everything, just what I've been taught, I would encourage people to research into it though if they're more curious.

according to shariyah if a girl who is young and its her first nikkah if she remains silent then her silence would b taken as consent...coz she may b feeling shy...but a girl who is a divorcee or widow has to say qabool hai..it was nt because..without a girls consent a marriage is not valid...if girl says she is not willing to marry n doesn't give her consent then the marriage is not valid

Edited by samiya.059 - 11 years ago

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Xarina

@Xarina

Sparkler

+ 7

Posted: 11 years ago

#27

Originally posted by: janestone6
What's the name of your parent's village? I live in Pakistan and its still new(khutba) for me strange. Oh that's so sad you had to bow down. These traditions are introduced by us. Islam has clearly stated that you need to ask your daughters and sisters if they are okay with the marriage if yes proceed with the wedding. If the say no then no force can force them.
We people have complicated our religion and we have totally forgotten whats written in the Holy Book. We are introducing new things into our religion and making things complicating for ourselves.😔

The village is on the outskirts of a town called Sahiwal. When I went there, it was a little primitive at the time-not like London or the City life I am used to. Thing is tradition and culture get fused into the name of religion and in some places the holy teachings are not king but family honour is. Part of the issue back then was that people recited verses but never learned Arabic per se to translate the teachings and hence relied on a few, perhaps blinkered elders, who claimed to be knowledgeable about these things and did or do as their will or for convenience.

I took the time out to understand the holy Qur'aan and also had my children learn arabic alongside learning to read and I am sure that I am at the stage where I am now because of it.

Edited by Xarina - 11 years ago

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Anila

@Annu..

Rocker

Posted: 11 years ago

#28

Originally posted by: LaVita-E-Bella
Hey guys, so I just saw some videos where they have both Ayaan and Zoya sign the papers. The nikkah was invalid, no question or doubt about it, but from what I could see, and I could be wrong, it seems like they were doing it over again? I heard the Qazi reading something and asked "Kya Qubool Hai?" I couldn't hear that well so correct me if I'm wrong.
Now if that happens, the nikkah will be REAL and I'll explain why. The basic things that make a nikkah invalid are that if you don't have a mahram and two witnesses, there is no haq mehr, and no written contract, and biggest and main thing of all the if there is no mutual agreement. This was the main reason the nikkah at the community hall was not valid because both didn't even know what was going on. I know people are saying that even if they sign papers next week and ''validate'' the nikkah it will still be invalid because of Zoya's father's name but I want to clear something up. If the father is unknown (and in Zoya's case he is, she doesn't know who he is), then the nikkah can still be considered valid because as long as there is another suitable mahram. In this case it would be Zoya's jeeju, but if there is no appropriate male relative, then the Imam can can be her mahram, since he is the leader of the community so he can give consent to validate the marriage and be her Islamic guardian. With mutual consent now from both Zoya and Ayaan, and everything I just explained, the nikkah will be real. If this happens, well then...I'm not going to say anything right now (for those of you who know, I like waiting to see how it plays out), but I'll definitely have some words then.
Right now, no one knows what exactly happened or HOW the nikkah happened between the two, just that it was a mistake. I wish Zoya/Ayaan were more knowledgeable so they would realize that it doesn't even count and could bring in an educated Imam to explain the situation. I'm sure the elders, Ghafoor, Rashid, Dilshaad, and maybe even Asad know the rules of Islamic marriage, and if they knew exactly everything that went down they would be able to raise this issue.

@ bold.. Mahram = Wali rite? coz the correct term is Wali/Wakeel..

if I m not wrong, Dilshad or even Asad can also be Zoya's wali.. coz Anwar and Dilshad are distant relatives, so if Anwar-Zeenat couldn't show up on Monday epi then logically Asad should be her Wali.. lets see Gul mein itni aqal hai ke nahin..

Okay Zoya's father's name is unknown.. so what will Qazi say.. Zoya Farooqui Binte (d/o) -----??? Anwar is her guardian and not her father.. u need a father's name to be written on the nikaah-nama.. somewhere on any legal document, her father's name was written so that name should be written on the nikaah-nama too.. if i m not wrong here.. 😕

@ red.. with mutual consent??

do you think Ayaan-Zoya have mutually agreed to do the nikaah.. def NOT.. they are forced by the circumstances, under pressure to say Yes from Qazi, Asad and Ghafoor.. bride or groom or both have to do the nikaah apni marzi se, apni khushi se.. which is not the case here.. both Zoya and Ayaan have to get ready for the nikaah on their own will first.. this is one of the basic condition of nikaah to be valid..

I guess, we all need to wait for Monday epi.. who knows Gul will prove all the viewers wrong and finally show a nikaah as per all the Islamic rules.. 😆

btw Najma-Imran nikaah was also invalid but still we viewers had to accept it as valid.. 🤔

Edited by Annu.. - 11 years ago

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bheegi

@bheegi

Stunner

+ 5

Posted: 11 years ago

#29

Here is another response from another Muslim friend:

The nikaah remains invalid'.

And here's why:

1) Zoya's Wali. In the absence of biological parents, one needs a Wali. A Wali cannot be connected the groom's family. S/he has to be wholly independent of the groom's family because the purpose of a Wali is too look out for the bride. In this case, they are all connected or related the Ayaan in some way or another.

2) Zoya's Walis are Zeenat and Anwar. No two ways around that. Her parents are either dead' or missing and the moment they adopted Zoya they became her legal guardians, and even biology cannot supersede that. Even if Ghafoor was revealed to be her father at this juncture, he is not her legal parent, and therefore not a Wali.

3) Just watched the video, neither said qubool hai' but actually legitimised the nikaah. This is not dissimilar to the situation we had back in June with Ayaan and Humeira. While legal (had Badi Bi not intervened) because the formalities were complete, the method was suspect and that made the nikaah invalid. It's like a day-old expired driving licence. It's legitimate and legal because it was obtained from the right channels but invalid because of the date on it.

4)Both agreed to marriage in coercion. Islam is clear on the matter; no form of force validates a nikaah. So every forced marriage is actually invalid in the eyes of God and the religion; just not it's warped practitioners. Ayaan and Zoya aren't willingly agreeing to this because they want to but because they have been pressured into making this choice. Coercion has happened here.

I mean at this juncture, if they wanted, they could have Anwar and Zeenat arrive and just render the whole situation invalid without so much as breaking a sweat. Zoya is not the legal responsibility of Asad, Dilshaad, Rashid or Ayaan, which means her guardian needs to be present. Even if they arrange a Wali', in light of the fact that Zoya has legal guardians that Wali is invalid.

More importantly, I haven't seen the requisite two witnesses either and these two witnesses have to be independent of the Ahmed Khans and Zoya.

There's also the issue of the nikaahnaama itself. A nikahnaama has a built in pre-nupt and it includes the rights of the husband and wife. In the Subcontinent, it's fairly common practice for the religious leaders to cancel' the rights of the wife, including her right to divorce, unless a family elder (specifically a Wali) intervenes. They automatically cancel unless the Wali objects.

Basically, Gul is trying to show that in Islam a woman has equal rights but that doesn't always happen in the society. She has a bigger message here. Wish she could have cleared so air before she started the track or brings in an honest Islamic scholar who can tell everyone that they are committing a mistake by forcing two people into a nikaah because that in itself makes it invalid

Shouldn't Asad know this?

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LaVita-E-Bella

@LaVita-E-Bella

Dazzler

Posted: 11 years ago

#30

Originally posted by: Annu..

@ bold.. Mahram = Wali rite? coz the correct term is Wali/Wakeel..

if I m not wrong, Dilshad or even Asad can also be Zoya's wali.. coz Anwar and Dilshad are distant relatives, so if Anwar-Zeenat couldn't show up on Monday epi then logically Asad should be her Wali.. lets see Gul mein itni aqal hai ke nahin..

Okay Zoya's father's name is unknown.. so what will Qazi say.. Zoya Farooqui Binte (d/o) -----??? Anwar is her guardian and not her father.. u need a father's name to be written on the nikaah-nama.. somewhere on any legal document, her father's name was written so that name should be written on the nikaah-nama too.. if i m not wrong here.. 😕
@ red.. with mutual consent??
do you think Ayaan-Zoya have mutually agreed to do the nikaah.. def NOT.. they are forced by the circumstances, under pressure to say Yes from Qazi, Asad and Ghafoor.. bride or groom or both have to do the nikaah apni marzi se, apni khushi se.. which is not the case here.. both Zoya and Ayaan have to get ready for the nikaah on their own will first.. this is one of the basic condition of nikaah to be valid..
I guess, we all need to wait for Monday epi.. who knows Gul will prove all the viewers wrong and finally show a nikaah as per all the Islamic rules.. 😆
btw Najma-Imran nikaah was also invalid but still we viewers had to accept it as valid.. 🤔

No wali and mahram aren't exactly the same thing. A Mahram and Wali can be the same person, but a Mahram is any male relative that you can't marry, where as a Wali is an appointed representative in marriage and legal affairs. Yes you are right, and that was my mistake I should have made that clear in my post, the correct term for marriage matters is a Wali. Asad and Dilshaad can not be Zoya's wali because it has to be a male from what I know, and if Asad and Zoya were to marry he can't be her Wali because of conflict of interest. If the father's name is unknown then you write the name of the Wali on the nikkahnama because he acts in place of her father.

You're right about the mutual consent part, and this is the biggest thing of all. The other details can always be worked out with, but consent is the first and foremost important thing in a nikkah. And you're right, it's not mutual consent in the sense that the situation is forcing both of them to go about this, and this whole thing has even left me confused. I honestly don't know where Gul is getting at in this situation and I'm really hoping she clears everything out otherwise it'll be really disappointing. Let's see how she plays this track out, lol.

Also how is Najma and Imran's nikkah invalid?

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Just to clear up some things about Nikkah - Page 3

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