Negativity and bad portrayal of women [DT Note p. 6]

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AshRun

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Posted: 12 years ago

#71

Originally posted by: Aalia_A

The post made by Rapunzale. I guess dekhte-dekhte I have become a Zoya champion 😆 so this is the PH doing what they do best? Brutalising female leads and glorifying grey heroes? You know I blame the Dargah sequence, that totally hooked me into the show and it was off to a brilliant start... I don't know if you will agree but Zoya Farooqui is slowly loosing the essence of her character and that makes me sad.

Oh I see!! Yes, that's just my opinion on why Asad is doing what he is. As for the PH doing what they do best, yes, this happens in all their shows and it is happening again. However, I would like to say that this is not even half as bad as what was shown in her last show. Can you believe that the guy in her last show used the girls socio-economic status to put her down?? So yeah, I have a problem with their representation of Muslims and I feel like the overall quality of the show could have been a LOT better...sometimes I just imagine some beautiful things they COULD have shown, but I do like the Asad + Zoya equation so far. It's not unrealistic for me like the past ones.

Even the dargah scene was pretty weird for me. Most Muslims don't believe in going to dargahs as they view it as a form of "shirk", but they still choose to show it in every show of theirs.My problem is not that they showed a place that I don't prefer going to, but my issue is : What's the point of them going to dargahs when none of them are shown going anywhere for Friday prayers?? My Mom visits them too, and I used to go too.. However, after I grew up a little, I didn't feel like going so I refused to go with my Mom. Zoya isn't really losing her essence for me because she still fought back in the village. She cries less and DOES more. Plus, she is giving Asad a tit-for-tat in the precap unlike Gul's other leads who used to watch on with tears in their eyes. Trust me, if you see her other couples, you will view AsYa from a different perspective. I'm NOT saying that they are perfect and you will looovee them and not find any faults, but you will understand and appreciate some things about this couple.

Edited by AshRun - 12 years ago

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Aalia_A

@Aalia_A

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Posted: 12 years ago

#72

Originally posted by: AshRun

Oh I see!! Yes, that's just my opinion on why Asad is doing what he is. As for the PH doing what they do best, yes, this happens in all their shows and it is happening again. However, I would like to say that this is not even half as bad as what was shown in her last show. Can you believe that the guy in her last show used the girls socio-economic status to put her down?? So yeah, I have a problem with their representation of Muslims and I feel like the overall quality of the show could have been a LOT better...sometimes I just imagine some beautiful things they COULD have shown, but I do like the Asad + Zoya equation so far. It's not unrealistic for me like the past ones.

Even the dargah scene was pretty weird for me. Most Muslims don't believe in going to dargahs as they view it as a form of "shirk", but they still choose to show it in every show of theirs. My Mom visits them too, and I used to. However, after I grew up a little, I didn't feel like going so I refused to go with my Mom. Zoya isn't really losing her essence for me because she still fought back in the village. Plus, she is giving Asad a tit-for-tat in the precap unlike Gul's other leads who used to watch on with tears in their eyes. Trust me, if you see her other couples, you will view AsYa froma different perspective. I'm NOT saying that you will looovee them and not find any faults, but you will understand and appreciate some things about this couple.

Okay that is low. But yeh Asad toh hamesha Zoya ke Ammi Abbu pe chala jaata hai and in my view that is not less offensive either.

The Dargah scene was aesthetically beautiful and held so much promise. So did Asad's intro with the blind kid... Sigh! I went to as many Dargah's as I could when I went to visit Pakistan. I guess it was something new and exciting for me. A different kind of spirituality, but yes there is a question mark over those who frequent Dargah's.

My problem is that I see them as Asad Zoya and not AsYa, and I guess I never will until they make their equation more obvious. That's my NRI mentality coming into play again. So I want Zoya to continue her separate track, her mission of finding her father... I do not want her individuality subsumed by her feelings for Asad. But maybe I am being unfair here because I am a one-off viewer and not used to the sensibilities of Indian telly serials but still it is nice to at least share some frustration. I mean I watch the show and abuse my television cause of it so I am entitled to have some opinion 😆

You know this forum really used to intimidate me before. I started off with the worst possible start here, but it is nice to find people who are at least willing to discuss rather than downright condemn alternative opinions. I think I am slowly starting to find my bearings =)

Edit: I know, no namaz except once maybe and no Juma prayers. That is why I say Assalam kehna nikal do, urdu bolna band kardo and there will be nothing Muslim in this show. A huge shame when you think of the possibilities.

Edited by Aalia_A - 12 years ago

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AshRun

@AshRun

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Posted: 12 years ago

#73

😊

Originally posted by: Aalia_A

Okay that is low. But yeh Asad toh hamesha Zoya ke Ammi Abbu pe chala jaata hai and in my view that is not less offensive either.

The Dargah scene was aesthetically beautiful and held so much promise. So did Asad's intro with the blind kid... Sigh! I went to as many Dargah's as I could when I went to visit Pakistan. I guess it was something new and exciting for me. A different kind of spirituality, but yes there is a question mark over those who frequent Dargah's.

My problem is that I see them as Asad Zoya and not AsYa, and I guess I never will until they make their equation more obvious. That's my NRI mentality coming into play again. So I want Zoya to continue her separate track, her mission of finding her father... I do not want her individuality subsumed by her feelings for Asad. But maybe I am being unfair here because I am a one-off viewer and not used to the sensibilities of Indian telly serials but still it is nice to at least share some frustration. I mean I watch the show and abuse my television cause of it so I am entitled to have some opinion 😆

You know this forum really used to intimidate me before. I started off with the worst possible start here, but it is nice to find people who are at least willing to discuss rather than downright condemn alternative opinions. I think I am slowly starting to find my bearings =)

Edit: I know, no namaz except once maybe and no Juma prayers. That is why I say Assalam kehna nikal do, urdu bolna band kardo and there will be nothing Muslim in this show. A huge shame when you think of the possibilities.

You know what, now that you point it out, I just recollected the fact that he did blame her parents for the way she is. 😡 He will apologize for it so don't worry. There was a mind-blowing apology scene in the other show ( I hate how I'm saying other show again and again, but its only natural to compare and contrast two products of the same brand). But yeah there was one in there and I'm sure we will have one here which will be breath-taking. And OMG I have to add that I hate it when some indians blame everything on your parents. When my Mom took me to India for a few years,I went to school there obviously and a teacher got mad at me for walking into her class without knocking... 🤢 I was asked to give her something and her class was quietly working on something while she was busy with some work at her desk...The door was open and in America, we don't KNOCK on classroom doors LOL so I just walked in and she asked me why I did that.. My response was that she wasn't lecturing or anything so I assumed that she won't tell me to go away. She got soo upset and told me, " How ill-mannered, first you walk in without knocking and then you backtalk with me, is this what your parents have taught you?? " I SWEAR I felt like abusing her for bringing my parents into it , but I just kept quiet and walked out considering her to be an alien ( My American mentality that anyone who does something differently is a alien because at that time India was another planet for me ) !!

Yeah, I think I now understand what you want to see...you want to see Zoya living a life that is somewhat reflective of Muslim girls...as you said you can relate to her so you want her to be empowered and not submissive to so many emotions and lose her individuality...I think you'r more ineterested in Zoya's development into a even more mature young woman and that is why you do not want to see a love story so soon...I understand, but so far, I don't see her changing or becoming weak. I'm wondering what is making you think that ? In a GOOD way, like...I'm curious 😊

Dargahs yes, they are a much-debated topic. My Mom's family goes, but dad's doesn't so that's another thing they could have shown...conflict in beliefs...*sigh* I'd rather not think about the possibilities because it gets frustrating then. Exactly, you're right about saying that talking in urdu and saying salaam is all thats left, which is why I said ditto on that post of yours. It's funny how someone else can often word our thoughts so much more beautifully than we can!! Yes, I wasn't given a warm welcome either, but yeah, I like to talk to educated people who discuss rather than shove their opinions in your face.

Edited by AshRun - 12 years ago

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Aalia_A

@Aalia_A

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Posted: 12 years ago

#74

^^ Aliens 😆 That really cracked me up! I can so picture myself in the same situation. Thankfully I never went through such a culture shock. I feel for you and I would have probably swore at the teacher if I was there. I am very badtameez like that =)

Yes, Asad needs to stop this dragging of her parent's in between but maybe it is to highlight something symbolic because her parentage is still a big question mark. And that is something I believe the PH will milk to its every last drop - because another overarching theme is parents and kids equation (or lack thereof). It does not make it right or palatable however. And no matter how late in the show, I will watch that promised apology scene with the same glee that I watched Asad going pagal in the sand for Zoya. I must admit the Zoya champion in me is also a bit of a sadist towards Asad miya 😃

Hmm... I wonder why so much distrust against Newbies... Every member here started out by being one. You know I almost quit the forum but then I thot I won't let other fans stop me from exploring the possibilities that an online forum experience provides. I may not be a fan but I am not a hater either. I just have an alternative perspective. And when I talk, I talk character, not actor. But some people don't seem to see a distinction. So I am extremely selective and think THRICE before I post a comment now.

Edit: Regarding Zoya... Her subtle and not-so-subtle feelings for Asad. I think, no I believe that will be her undoing. But then, I am stating the obvious here. Asad, with his unresolved issues, is going to put her through hell, but what about Zoya and her unresolved issues? Asad knows NOTHING about her yet. I think it is high time he gets acquainted with his Ammi's mehman. And he can start by giving her the benefit of doubt for once - after Mangalpur, I don't think that will be unjustified =)

Edited by Aalia_A - 12 years ago

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AshRun

@AshRun

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Posted: 12 years ago

#75

Originally posted by: Aalia_A
^^ Aliens 😆 That really cracked me up! I can so picture myself in the same situation. Thankfully I never went through such a culture shock. I feel for you and I would have probably swore at the teacher if I was there. I am very badtameez like that =)

Yes, Asad needs to stop this dragging of her parent's in between but maybe it is to highlight something symbolic because her parentage is still a big question mark. And that is something I believe the PH will milk to its every last drop - because another overarching theme is parents and kids equation (or lack thereof). It does not make it right or palatable however. And no matter how late in the show, I will watch that promised apology scene with the same glee that I watched Asad going pagal in the sand for Zoya. I must admit the Zoya champion in me is also a bit of a sadist towards Asad miya 😃

Hmm... I wonder why so much distrust against Newbies... Every member here started out by being one. You know I almost quit the forum but then I thot I won't let other fans stop me from exploring the possibilities that an online forum experience provides. I may not be a fan but I am not a hater either. I just have an alternative perspective. And when I talk, I talk character, not actor. But some people don't seem to see a distinction. So I am extremely selective and think THRICE before I post a comment now.

Edit: Regarding Zoya... Her subtle and not-so-subtle feelings for Asad. I think, no I believe that will be her undoing. But then, I am stating the obvious here. Asad, with his unresolved issues, is going to put her through hell, but what about Zoya and her unresolved issues? Asad knows NOTHING about her yet. I think it is high time he gets acquainted with his Ammi's mehman. And he can start by giving her the benefit of doubt for once - after Mangalpur, I don't think that will be unjustified =)

Hahah Yeah, thats what they seemed like to me!! Oh yeah, I'm badtameez too or I guess justs straighforward which is why I never fit in with the crowd over there lol!

Yup, they will dig into the parents and kids equation,and I understand that parental upbringing shapes a person but not always. Peer pressure... and even societal influence also plays a majorrr role!! I have done some things that my parents didn't teach me to do so I can say all this from personal experience. And that happens with everyone where ya know they take a different path than that of their parents in certain matters so for ONCE I would like to see female leads having ideas and morals of their OWN that they learned through their experiences outside of home... In every desi show, it ALL boils down to " My parents taught me to stand up for what's right" or.." " My parents taught me to support the "sachai"" Urghh !I've had enough of those and I'm glad Zoya doesn't do all that like typical heroines of telly land! Her opinions are HERS and not the result of someone drilling them into her head.

Aahh gotcha!! You want Asad to understand her problems, and basically communicate more effectively, right? An important part of loving someone is knowing them inside-out and that hasn't happened yet but as I said when it happens you will be amazed. Yes, I hold my own grudges with 4lions, but I have to admit that when the emotional bonding happens it will be amazing and Yayy!! Am glad that you took my word for it and are looking forward to the apology scene!! 😊

Hahaha @ "sadist towards Asad miyaan" - poor guy, he has had his share of troubles, but he can be irrational sometimes!! Go easy on him...try to love the characters and you will start seeing some sense. SOme things can be nerve-wrecking to watch, but hang on!!

Nah, people don't have a problem with the fact that we were newbies, but it's just that they refuse to entertain any thoughts that take away from their fun of watching...like if you say something that goes against the " sapnon ka mahal" they have in their minds, then they just get upset because they feel like they will not be able to enjoy the show if they look into it as deeply as we do. We treat it like a piece of literary work, whereas most on here treat it like entertainment. I don't think that should be the case. Entertainment does not = shut down your brain.

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kriti

@GroverAddict

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Posted: 12 years ago

#76

i dont think its bad in showing reality..

in our country these things happens..

this exist and from there PH took the whole idea

and then i loved QH a lot

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Aalia_A

@Aalia_A

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Posted: 12 years ago

#77

@AshRun Firstly Congrats, your post got 50 likes, that's a huge feat despite it having the minority opinion 😉

In the meantime I have been learning some things about the PH too, and I seriously hope Zoya's spunk and as you say, individuality of opinion remains intact even after AsYa track starts. And I know it will take a long long while for Asad to completely let her in but for now, I am not even asking for emotional bonding... Human bonding bhi mil jaye toh bahut badi baat hogi 😆 Asad miyan should learn first how to speak to a woman who is not his Ammi or his little sisters. But you know what, I think I am too impatient for Indian television... I need some progress and I need it NOW 😛

As for loving the characters, i LIKE Zoya 😃 that is as far as I will go for now. And Rashid has me curious. I definitely wanna know the back-story there. Dilshad is great, there is a dignity to her and I want Rashid's Ammi to continue being on the forefront in that house like what she did today. Asad is conspicuously absent in my good books and I think you know why... 😆

If QH was a happy-go-lucky cute serial, I would have waived all the flaws I found in the name of entertainment. But the show is serious, it is at times hard to stomach with all the misogyny so I do not look at it as entertainment and I tend to be more discerning with it.

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AshRun

@AshRun

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Posted: 12 years ago

#78

Originally posted by: Aalia_A
@AshRun Firstly Congrats, your post got 50 likes, that's a huge feat despite it having the minority opinion 😉

In the meantime I have been learning some things about the PH too, and I seriously hope Zoya's spunk and as you say, individuality of opinion remains intact even after AsYa track starts. And I know it will take a long long while for Asad to completely let her in but for now, I am not even asking for emotional bonding... Human bonding bhi mil jaye toh bahut badi baat hogi 😆 Asad miyan should learn first how to speak to a woman who is not his Ammi or his little sisters. But you know what, I think I am too impatient for Indian television... I need some progress and I need it NOW 😛

As for loving the characters, i LIKE Zoya 😃 that is as far as I will go for now. And Rashid has me curious. I definitely wanna know the back-story there. Dilshad is great, there is a dignity to her and I want Rashid's Ammi to continue being on the forefront in that house like what she did today. Asad is conspicuously absent in my good books and I think you know why... 😆

If QH was a happy-go-lucky cute serial, I would have waived all the flaws I found in the name of entertainment. But the show is serious, it is at times hard to stomach with all the misogyny so I do not look at it as entertainment and I tend to be more discerning with it.

Thank you!! Regarding your thoughts about the way Asad is , here is my sincere advice and it has a background story to it lol, hope you don't take offense because I'm gonna be straightforward about it but don't mean to drive you away from the show or discourage you in any way : Ok so here we go :

In the previous show, the male lead was even more rude at times, so there was this group of people who were a minority but they seemed to be feminists and always hated the male lead. When nice romantic scenes were shown, when the guy's passion and obsession for the girl was shown, they never praised it, but as soon as he did something that was bad, they would run to make a post on it!!

The story progressed and the guy repented for his deeds, but they had their opinions and still didn't like the way it was done.

Eventually, the show ended, and for me it ended 8 months before it actually did because I simply couldn't digest the story anymore. I got so disconnected that I didn't even watch the last epi till date to see what happened in it. Well, I was curious to know what the actor is doing these days because his departure from the show was the reason why fans asked for the show to be shut down so I went to that show's forum about 2 hours ago. I was surprised to see that, the group of people I mentioned are STILL upset about the repentence track that was shown like 5-6 months ago in the show. The Producers have moved on to Qubool Hai, and the actress has told her fans to move on and wait for her next show, but fans are still frustrated with the male lead or rather the character played by him. Honestly, I don't think it's reasonable because later, he made up for everything he did. BUT my point is that if you don't like Asad now then you probably won't grow to like him later because you will always be more judgemental towards him since he has given you a bad first impression. Soo, yeah, it will prolly be better if you just stop watching his scenes or give the show up completely!

Edit : The part in red is basically what I'm trying to say. I saw a pattern with the old show, people who hated the female or male lead from the START had the same opinion until the END.

As for Rashid and his Mom, I skip their parts, am least bothered about Ayaan and his family. I tried watching without forwarding during the first month because I wanted to be a QH fan and not just AsYa fan, but the entire cast is a completee letdown!!

I do love Dilshad though, the actress who plays her role has the knack for good dialogue delivery!!

Edited by AshRun - 12 years ago

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Aalia_A

@Aalia_A

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Posted: 12 years ago

#79

Originally posted by: AshRun

Thank you!! Regarding your thoughts about the way Asad is , here is my sincere advice and it has a background story to it lol, hope you don't take offense because I'm gonna be straightforward about it but don't mean to drive you away from the show or discourage you in any way : Ok so here we go :

In the previous show, the male lead was even more rude at times, so there was this group of people who were a minority but they seemed to be feminists and always hated the male lead. When nice romantic scenes were shown, when the guy's passion and obsession for the girl was shown, they never praised it, but as soon as he did something that was bad, they would run to make a post on it!!

The story progressed and the guy repented for his deeds, but they had their opinions and still didn't like the way it was done.
Eventually, the show ended, and for me it ended 8 months before it actually did because I simply couldn't digest the story anymore. I got so disconnected that I didn't even watch the last epi till date to see what happened in it. Well, I was curious to know what the actor is doing these days because his departure from the show was the reason why fans asked for the show to be shut down so I went to that show's forum about 2 hours ago. I was surprised to see that, the group of people I mentioned are STILL upset about the repentence track that was shown like 5-6 months ago in the show. The Producers have moved on to Qubool Hai, and the actress has told her fans to mve on and wait for her next show, but fans are still frustrated with the male lead. Honestly I don't think it's reasonable because later, he made up for everything he did. BUT my point is that if you don't like him now then you probably won't grow to like him later because you will always be more judgemental towards him since he has given you a bad first impression. Soo, yeah, it will prolly be better if you just stop watching his scenes or give the show up completely! 😊

Hey that's all good. No offense taken. I appreciate such straightforwardness. I won't give up the show cause of Asad. I don't watch it for him, or for the romance quotient. I watch it for the concept and for the mysteries the show is yet to reveal. And I'm sorry I did not realise I was being judgemental... Maine aise hi mazak mazak mein likh diya Asad miyan ke baare mein 😆 His character traits do not endear him to me, yes, but I am eagerly awaiting the epic apology scene you have hyped me up for and I adored him in the Mahasangam for his care and concern to Zoya. So I will give him credit where due and I promise I will not carry a grudge against a fictional character for the rest of my life 😳

Edit: Hmmm... We both watch the show for completely different things and still we can maintain a civilized conversation but now that I know you are an AsYa fan, I promise I will tone myself down. I like having meaningful discussions, and I respect your point-of-view. You have obviously more experience as an Indian telly viewer than I do. And you have the benefit of hindsight to back your current perspectives.

Edited by Aalia_A - 12 years ago

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AshRun

@AshRun

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Posted: 12 years ago

#80

Originally posted by: Aalia_A
[

Hey that's all good. No offense taken. I appreciate such straightforwardness. I won't give up the show cause of Asad. I don't watch it for him, or for the romance quotient. I watch it for the concept and for the mysteries the show is yet to reveal. And I'm sorry I did not realise I was being judgemental... Maine aise hi mazak mazak mein likh diya Asad miyan ke baare mein 😆 His character traits do not endear him to me, yes, but I am eagerly awaiting the epic apology scene you have hyped me up for and I adored him in the Mahasangam for his care and concern to Zoya. So I will give him credit where due and I promise I will not carry a grudge against a fictional character for the rest of my life 😳

Oh my gosh!! Nooo, you don't have to say sorrry to ME for being judgemental because these are just characters and not real people who I love so you can dislike them all you want. I'm just saying that you will always look into his actions more because of the first impression he gave you. I mentioned that first impression part along with the judgemental part.😉

Yes, hopefully the apology scene won't disppoint you because as you're saying I have hyped you up for it, and I don't wanna look dumb if it doesn't happen 😆 However, there is a 99.9 % chance that it will!

Oh please, even if you will hold a grudge I won't mind, I didn't mean that you are JUST like them and that I expect you to do the same...Insaan ki baat cheet se uski zahaanat ka andaaza lag jaata hai aur app waisi nahin lagti hain. I just used that "background story" to make a point that for some female viewers, it becomes hard to like the male lead no matter how sweeet he becomes later on because they recollect the mean things he does in the beginning.

Oh and I just read the edited part of your post : Yes, ofcourse! Life would be boring if we all agreed with each other.When we disagree, we should do it respectfully and that's what you and I are doing so yes, we are having a civilized conversation. Also, you really don't have to tone down on AsYa just for me. If you ever want to include them in your conversations then I wouldn't mind hearing your opinion about them. As I said, they are just fictional characters and not people who are close to me. I really appreciate the fact that you said you respect my point-of-view, and I respect yours too which is why I repeatedly gave you hope for the show instead of saying that I don't like your views or that they are not reasonable. Oh and you said that you like meaningful conversations, I am sorry I am not giving you those even though I tried!! :)

Edited by AshRun - 12 years ago

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Negativity and bad portrayal of women [DT Note p. 6] - Page 8

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