In Defence of Krishna : Don't Tame him YET - Page 11

Originally posted by: koolsadhu1000

Dear limits and opti . I went thru all ur replies and I realised one thing ..............that we can argue till the cows come home in this way .....and there wud be no end to it . To every 'Why shud Prats do it ' there will be a '' Why shud Krishna do it '' and this will just go on . So I will condense my argument in exactly 3 points and present it to u so u guys can understand what I am trying to say and perhaps see my POV . { Only if u wish to dears .....totally ur wish .] . 1] It is very obvious to me that u guys [ at least opti mentioned it twice] see this as a story of obession , of dealing with eveteasing and stalking and so u guys applaud Pratigya for her guts for standing up to it . Well .........the way of dealing with eveteasing and stalking is NOT by marrying the eveteaser or stalker at all . Thats what Pratigya did and it just doesn't make sense to me . Opti said in this thread about how this show shud not go off track mid way coz this wud be a wrong social message while replying to savvie [ I think.] In my view .............This message itself that marry the eveteaser or stalker is a very wrong social message to ladies out there in small , big any kinda towns. It is an icredibly FOOLISH and DANGEROUS message . Women cannot go around marrying their stalkers ............PERIOD . This message thru Pratigya that marry ur stalker and change him by teaching him a lesson is UNACCEPTABLE . . 2] Women have no way of knowing what they are marrying into if they decide to marry their stalker . They cannot assume that they can CHANGE THINGS by CHANGING THE STALKER . This is unrealistic and stupid . Messages to stalkers that u can have my body not my heart won't make an iota of diffrence to the stalker ............he may say ok and just grab the body and rape the woman night after night . Then he may turn to other women , once he is bored of her body . How can a woman assume that the stalker is after her heart and not her body and so she can use that as a leverage to beat him at his own game ? See how this even sounds ! And thats what Pratigya did . . 3] Her excuse that she did it to protect her family is LAME . HOW was she going to protect her family by marrying the stalker ? Is there any answer to this ? This is the question I want an answer to . How can a woman protect her family if she marries her stalker ?

By offering him daily sex and keeping him in a good mood ?

By refusing him daily sex and putting him in such a foul mood that he becomes even more dangerous ? . How is she in any position to know the real nature of the stalker , the beast that she is marrying who actually may trouble her family even more now that he has her legally in his clutches ? The stalker may go after her younger sister , start demanding money from her Dad ...........do anything , as the mentality is of CONTROL . Surprisingly , The Nainaji who slapped Pratigya and tried to knock sense in her instead of encouraging the foolhardy decision of marrying a man she thought was a beast , is criticised by u guys as regressive ............when she comes across as eminently sane and practical to me . Once Pratigya got married we see Nainaji judging Krishna and coming to a conclusion that he is not all that bad , circumstances made him that way , and as Pratigya married him anyways , why not make the marraige work . So she advises her daughter that now that u got into it , work on it . I dont see Nainaji as regressive at all . But progressive Pratigya who decided to marry her stalker to save her family and then teach her stalker the lesson of his life by explaining to him about heart and body STUNS me as I find it UNREAL. .

The truth is nothing wud have changed ...........the chauvinistic Thakur family keeps quite at her attitude coz Krishna stands between them and her and so they cannot go to their real level of teaching her a lesson the Mafia way . They who drag people in the sand to teach them a lesson , wud not hesitate to make mincemeat out of her and her family for even one backanswer if their tempers were touched on the raw . Krishna stands between them and her just like he stood between her and Angad . The fact remains that unknown to her , she remains safe and protected by the very beast she abhors .

She has no way of changiing anyone coz all she has are her talks ........and limits .........this is the position I was talking about .U said u were curious to know my thoughts on this .........Well , she doesnt have police contacts that wud frighten the Thakurs or Krishna and they wud retreat , nor political connections who wud use pressure on them and make them leave her alone . She has no job to which she can escape from that world and forget her worries even briefly . She doesnt have physical strength to match theirs and defeat them .........in fact she has nOTHING except silly ideas that talks change hard core brutal chauvinism .

And thats why i say that she needs a reality check as ultimately all her so called 'winning' is bcoz it has been tolerated and entertained by Krishna who is in every position to 'teach' her the lesson of her life for assuming that she cud con him into a marraige and teach him a lesson by showing him contempt . The word 'entertains her' was perhaps not liked by u limits but it is a bitter fact .

Limits u urself admitted in another thread that Krishna has some conscience .And thats precisely my point ..........that she needs to know this that what she feels is her victory is largely due to his individuality . I want this reality check dialogue given to her by Naina , Dadi , Komal .......I dont care which character , I want this dialogue as the women out there watching this serial shud understand that Pratigya was lucky to marry a stalker with a conscience but that they wud not be and so they better not take such pratigyas or oaths and foolishly decide to marry the stalker to protect their families . That foolish bravado and unrealistic assumptions of own strength can lead to DEATH .

kools - completely agree with the points you brought out!!!

Originally posted by: MERARAI

Hi Kools!

Excellent post! I agree.

Had Pratigya stood up to Krishna and refused to marry him, forcing him to prove his love and win her over that way it would have made the story somewhat believable. She would have been a character to be appreciated for her bravery to take that stand. Instead she dives into the black hole, into a world of the unknown and thinks she is going to rule her sasural, the very people she hadn't a clue about. If she had such a despicable opinion of Krishna did she even think about it for one second what his family would be like having a son like that. She got lucky she married a man with a conscience and who is basically decent compared to the rest of the family. She is also lucky that while she continued to use her trump card (Krishna's love for her) against him on a daily basis, Krishna wasn't ready to give up on winning her over. Even in arranged marriages families meet one another to have a sense of with who and where their daughters will be spending their lives.

Krishna is in love with Prats but just has limited ideas and experiences to fall back on to figure out of how to win her over. There have been a few hits and several misses but he is persistent. Prats herself admitted that she couldn't do a thing in that house without Krishna's support. She also has heard from just about everyone else how much Krishna loves her. Her Dadi, Adarsh and Arushi have their own hatred of Krishna to deal with. Prof. was the weather vane of the family changing his mind about Krishna depending on which way the wind shifted. Even Nainaji gave her sound advice, being the only sane person in the SUCK family but Prats rejected that with her justifications for hating and teaching Krishna lessons. Too bad, Prats listened to her Dad who's head is filled with principles, rules, regulations, methods and all those theoretical concepts that look great on paper but worthless in living everyday life.

Now comes the reality check once Angad's confessions come to light. Prof. and his family will be put to the test in handling a real crisis. Will they and can they resolve it on their own without help from the illiterate but sometime more practical Tacurse family? Let's wait and see.

The reasons and circumstances surrounding her decision to marry Krishna was more of a sacrifice for her family first so that she can get them out of the grave circumstances. So in my view she sacrificed her life and wasn't thinking of any thing beyond that.

SAM2U

EXACTLY . She wasn't thinking ........and its hi time sumone makes this character THINK .

Originally posted by: koolsadhu1000

SAM2U

EXACTLY . She wasn't thinking ........and its hi time sumone makes this character THINK .

yes dear kool you are right in your earlier post that how marrying a stalker can be a social message.....this is really a wrong message. I think in this matter Arushi is wise and she don't hesitate to tell things to her family......she is more practical and matured than pratigya......

Originally posted by: saavie

yes dear kool you are right in your earlier post that how marrying a stalker can be a social message.....this is really a wrong message. I think in this matter Arushi is wise and she don't hesitate to tell things to her family......she is more practical and matured than pratigya......

yeap agree with you on Arushi having more guts to speak up what she feels rather than what everyone wants to hear!!

Originally posted by: Kai_Hiwatari

yeap agree with you on Arushi having more guts to speak up what she feels rather than what everyone wants to hear!!

Even in yesterday's episode Arushi was the one who adviced Pratigya not to repeat her past mistakes and tell the family what happened at the stall but again prats being prats was like they will be worried!

I am like -> your family should be there to support you when you are in need it is their duty to be worried if something is not right! What is the need of having family if one had to deal with everything alone - a silent suffering!

coming to think of it, if Arushi was in pratigya's place it would be interesting to watch, cause no way she will marry a stalker!😆

Pratigya is an emotional fool when it comes to her family.......I don't know from which movie is she motivated.

Aarushi , irritating though she may be is every bit more original than Pratigya

She does not hesitate to speak her mind . She is rude to ALL ...no double standards like Pratigya who cannot bear SS's rudeness but tolerates any of her Dadi's rudeness ...like Dadi casting aspersions on her character . She is more of a woman although she is young .........Pratigya is robotic

NIce long debate ....love all ur points Kool,savvie,limit,opti and the rest.

Kool:

I have been meaning to post this on your thread for a few days now and having been following the discussions throughout. So I will now add my take, if you don't mind.

When I started watching this show from the beginning, I was not too thrilled with the character ' I mean he was really a tough guy, a stalker, a typical majnu category person who falls in love so unrealistically with someone he has only glimpsed from a far. (No doubt the wonderful soundtrack they play make you see him in a romantic and softer light). But the reality is that any girl who has lived in India and walked on those streets has been privy to eve-teasing. It is fact of life and much as we condemn it we cannot change it. Our society as a whole needs to be educated to eliminate this evil and that is not happening in the near future, our explosive population growth rate will ensure that. Again another sad fact of life.

Anyways, I was initially repulsed by the stalking and the constant obsession (as would eb most rationale people) however as the show progressed I felt that maybe he was not such a bad dude because you cannot help comparing him to Angad who is a "real" stalker, prey of innocent girls, thug and rapist. A stalker like Krishna is very unrealistic a character. Stalking requires a blind perspective from an obsessed and self absorbed person and such a person could not possess a conscience in my mind as the latter would require sensitivity or an awareness outside of one's desires that would totally be contradictory in nature. So in that event Krishna's character is an anomaly, in my opinion. So I started being more liberal when watching this character. People associate the Kriya relationship to Stockholm syndrome but that is not right because the syndrome relates to victim's emotional attachment to their rapist. And we can all agree that rape has definitely not happened with Kriya and that is the reason for their current predicament. Lack of marital consummation. Krishna may be aggressive, possessive, rough but he has not really physically harmed her. A slap is more humiliating in its impact than physically destructive. He mentally tortured her with his obsession so she has emotionally humbled him with her detachment. Tit for Tat.

Pratigya, as a character seems really naive for a girl who has lived in India. Any girl in high school knows that the only way to deal with eve-teasing or any such kind of act is "ignore and evade". Yet Pratigya, a university student does not seem to have this basic understanding. In fact she seems to invite trouble unknowingly or unintentionally. I mean in the very first epi, they show that she is very much aware of the ruffians in her compartment and the fact that she is their sole interest. Any sensible girl (which si what her character was intended to portray) would have been mum during the extremely short two hour trip. Instead she proceeds to remove western clothes and indicate that she hides her daring nature when she is at home, she talks about her ideal man, she takes a unescorted trip to the washroom, she bends and lets her duppatta fall to the ground, I can go on and on and on. I understand that this might be viewed by independent women as innocent actions that should not be misinterpreted by men. That is well and good and works admirably in the west where such tolerance is a societal norm but not in India and definitely not in a place like Illahabad. Her behaviour in my mind was the total anthithesis to any cautionary measures or actions that are thought to young girls by conservative parents (which her parents definitely are). In fact they teach us this before they teach us to cook or sew. So in my mind I was not surprised that the situation escalated. This was just my example of why I consider all her actions surreal for the environment she lives in. Continuing in this pattern she decided to marry the stalker (surreal and VERY UNADVISABLE), then she decides to mock the manhood of an Alpha male type character at every turn in the privacy of their bedroom (VERY VERY UNADVISABLE), then she decides to up the ante and degrade him TOTALLY in the presence of his family, his relatives, his guests, etc (VERY VERY VERY UNADVISABLE AND very inappropriate for a girl from her background). This girl seems to be walking around with a permanent red flag around the wild bull intentionally. Does she not know that she cannot hurt the bull with the red cloth but will instead get gored? Even a kid knows that. Sorry but this does not seem the actions of a practical person to me. It seems the acts of daring person who is acting without strategy or care for self preservation.

The marriage

Her marriage in my mind was not under duress but out of desperation. In reality, a father would not allow their daughter to marry such a person even if the consequence was that the girl remained single for ever. Also, a FIL would never consider the DIL's acceptance of the sahugan as sign of agreement to marry. Only the parents can accept the shagun. So the marriage decision was poorly thought out and even poorly executed by CV.

When she married Krishna, the dynamic of their relation changed. It went from being stalker and prey to husband and wife (whether we like it or not this was the reality). Imagine if she had married an actual rapist i.e. Angad not a perceived one i.e. Krishna. Most people bought up in conservative Indian families will know that arranged marriages are the norm and the groom is not chosen for romantic reasons but based on financial position. In the financial sense, Krishna was much more well placed than Nitin. Also, love and consensual sex is not requisites for couples in arranged marriages. Again an unromantic but harsh reality of conservative India. I think Krishna agreeing to not consummate the marriage was also surreal because that does not happen in India unless the man is impotent. It definitely does not happen in a family like the Singhs where all the males are typical Alpha males and any such decision would be a sign of weakness and the person would lose respect and thereby any say in the household decisions. He would not be able to effectively protect his wife in such an environment as his decisions or demands would be ignored at best and challenged mercilessly at worst. He would be mocked in passing for failing the Alpha male test. Which is the only reason why Krishna lied inspite of seeing her rationale for telling the truth, in my opinion.

The Pooja and the Slap

I have read many posts where people supported her for her actions at the pooja and denounced Krishna for the slap. So here's my take. Yes she did caution him and he did not heed her words of caution. Unwise on his part. However, she decided to make an issue of a very fundamental and private matter in public in an environment. Unwise and ill timed on her part. She did not want to mock this pooja. Fine. Why did she not apply the same principles to the wedding pooja? Did she not mock that with a much more grave lie to marry honour and cherish a man that she only intended to torture and humiliate for the rest of their married life. So I do not buy her idealistic stance. Also if she need her parents support she could have disclosed this on one of the several visits to their house without she drama and humiliation for her husband and his family. Again she went with the red cloth inviting trouble. All her actions seem reactionary and ill-advised, ill-timed and definitely poorly executed.

The Gol Gappa Scene

I do not agree with Krishnas' actions. He overreacted and for one she was right for the public humiliation. Anyone is entitled to have a little distraction when they are stressed.

The Gun Scene

Again, here I will try to use another analogy. This is not indicative of their actual relationship but supposed to explain a culture-influenced reaction or response.

Imagine an Indian parent who has always only known corporal punishment as a form of discipline. Comes to North America and realizes that this is unacceptable behaviour and is forced to use other forms of passive disciplines, i.e grounding, timeout, counselling, heart-to-heart discussions and nothing works, what does the parent do? They turn back to a tried and tested solution. A whack and then a threat to send you back to grandparents in India. The more defiant the child gets, the more aggressive the parent. Indian people unfortunately are very practical in their approach to problems. You do whatever works best to fix a problem and deal with niceties later. It has always worked for us, so why fix what aint' broken. This behaviour and logic is unappreciated and even criticized in liberal societies like the West but then Kriya do not like in the West do they, they live in extremely conservative Illahabad. So when in Rome, think and act like the Romans or you will be killed by the mob.

He demanded, then cajoled, then pleaded, cried and when nothing worked he went back to his roots. She did not budge when she had a chance now he took that chance away. Do I agree with his actions? Definitely not because then I would be supporting domestic violence and abuse. But would I place myself in the situation that Pratigya has with a husband like Krishna and in a society like Illahabad? Nope because that would be illogical and not advisable. I would use a more passive form of rebellion as that is more strategic. Ongoing communication is usually a very effective passive strategy. And everything that I saw indicated that he wanted to talk with her. You don't charge with the red cloth at the bull. You wait for it to come to you in a rage and then calmly turn away and evade the attack. The keywords being "calm" and "evade".

Anyways, I think I have said too much and I apologize if I have rambled on forever. Its just that I was not able to respond to individual posts for lack of time and now that I have some I thought I would put it all down at once.

Mog Hope.

Originally posted by: stillhopeful

Kool:

I have been meaning to post this on your thread for a few days now and having been following the discussions throughout. So I will now add my take, if you don't mind.

When I started watching this show from the beginning, I was not too thrilled with the character ' I mean he was really a tough guy, a stalker, a typical majnu category person who falls in love so unrealistically with someone he has only glimpsed from a far. (No doubt the wonderful soundtrack they play make you see him in a romantic and softer light). But the reality is that any girl who has lived in India and walked on those streets has been privy to eve-teasing. It is fact of life and much as we condemn it we cannot change it. Our society as a whole needs to be educated to eliminate this evil and that is not happening in the near future, our explosive population growth rate will ensure that. Again another sad fact of life.

Anyways, I was initially repulsed by the stalking and the constant obsession (as would eb most rationale people) however as the show progressed I felt that maybe he was not such a bad dude because you cannot help comparing him to Angad who is a "real" stalker, prey of innocent girls, thug and rapist. A stalker like Krishna is very unrealistic a character. Stalking requires a blind perspective from an obsessed and self absorbed person and such a person could not possess a conscience in my mind as the latter would require sensitivity or an awareness outside of one's desires that would totally be contradictory in nature. So in that event Krishna's character is an anomaly, in my opinion. So I started being more liberal when watching this character. People associate the Kriya relationship to Stockholm syndrome but that is not right because the syndrome relates to victim's emotional attachment to their rapist. And we can all agree that rape has definitely not happened with Kriya and that is the reason for their current predicament. Lack of marital consummation. Krishna may be aggressive, possessive, rough but he has not really physically harmed her. He mentally tortured her with his obsession so she has emotionally humbled him with her detachment. Tit for Tat.

Pratigya, as a character seems really naive for a girl who has lived in India. Any girl in high school knows that the only way to deal with eve-teasing or any such kind of act is "ignore and evade". Yet Pratigya, a university student does not seem to have this basic understanding. In fact she seems to invite trouble unknowingly or unintentionally. I mean in the very first epi, they show that she is very much aware of the ruffians in her compartment and the fact that she is their sole interest. Any sensible girl (which si what her character was intended to portray) would have been mum during the extremely short two hour trip. Instead she proceeds to remove western clothes and indicate that she hides her daring nature when she is at home, she talks about her ideal man, she takes a unescorted trip to the washroom, she bends and lets her duppatta fall to the ground, I can go on and on and on. I understand that this might be viewed by independent women as innocent actions that should not be misinterpreted by men. That is well and good and works admirably in the west where such tolerance is a societal norm but not in India and definitely not in a place like Illahabad. Her behaviour in my mind was the total anthithesis to any cautionary measures or actions that are thought to young girls by conservative parents (which her parents definitely are). In fact they teach us this before they teach us to cook or sew. So in my mind I was not surprised that the situation escalated. This was just my example of why I consider all her actions surreal for the environment she lives in. Continuing in this pattern she decided to marry the stalker (surreal and VERY UNADVISABLE), then she decides to mock the manhood of an Alpha male type character at every turn in the privacy of their bedroom (VERY VERY UNADVISABLE), then she decides to up the ante and degrade him TOTALLY in the presence of his family, his relatives, his guests, etc (VERY VERY VERY UNADVISABLE AND very inappropriate for a girl from her background). This girl seems to be walking around with a permanent red flag around the wild bull intentionally. Does she not know that she cannot hurt the bull with the red cloth but will instead get gored? Even a kid knows that. Sorry but this does not seem the actions of a practical person to me. It seems the acts of daring person who is acting without strategy or care for self preservation.

The marriage

Her marriage in my mind was not under duress but out of desperation. In reality, a father would not allow their daughter to marry such a person even if the consequence was that the girl remained single for ever. Also, a FIL would never consider the DIL's acceptance of the sahugan as sign of agreement to marry. Only the parents can accept the shagun. So the marriage decision was poorly thought out and even poorly executed by CV.

When she married Krishna, the dynamic of their relation changed. It went from being stalker and prey to husband and wife (whether we like it or not this was the reality). Most people bought up in conservative Indian families will know that arranged marriages are the norm and the groom is not chosen for romantic reasons but based on financial position. In the financial sense, Krishna was much more well placed than Nitin. Also, love and consensual sex is not a prerequisite for couples in arranged marriages. Again an unromantic but harsh reality of conservative India. I think Krishna agreeing to not consummate the marriage was also surreal because that does not happen in India unless the man is impotent. It definitely does not happen in a family like the Singhs where all the males are typical Alpha males and any such decision would be a sign of weakness and the person would lose respect and thereby any say in the household decisions. He would not be able to effectively protect his wife in such an environment as his decisions or demands would be ignored at best and challenged mercilessly at worst. He would be mocked in passing for failing the Alpha male test. Which is the only reason why Krishna lied inspite of seeing her rationale for telling the truth, in my opinion.

The Pooja and the Slap

I have read many posts where people supported her for her actions at the pooja and denounced Krishna for the slap. So here's my take. Yes she did caution him and he did not heed her words of caution. Unwise on his part. However, she decided to make an issue of a very fundamental and private matter in public in an environment. Unwise and ill timed on her part. She did not want to mock this pooja. Fine. Why did she not apply the same principles to the wedding pooja? Did she not mock that with a much more grave lie to marry honour and cherish a man that she only intended to torture and humiliate for the rest of their married life. So I do not buy her idealistic stance. Also if she need her parents support she could have disclosed this on one of the several visits to their house without she drama and humiliation for her husband and his family. Again she went with the red cloth inviting trouble. All her actions seem reactionary and ill-advised, ill-timed and definitely poorly executed.

The Gol Gappa Scene

I do not agree with Krishnas' actions. He overreacted and for one she was right for the public humiliation. Anyone is entitled to have a little distraction when they are stressed.

The Gun Scene

Again, here I will try to use another analogy. This is not indicative of their actual relationship but supposed to explain a culture-influenced reaction or response.

Imagine an Indian parent who has always only known corporal punishment as a form of discipline. Comes to North America and realizes that this is unacceptable behaviour and is forced to use other forms of passive disciplines, i.e grounding, timeout, counselling, heart-to-heart discussions and nothing works, what does the parent do? They turn back to a tried and tested solution. A whack and then a threat to send you back to grandparents in India. The more defiant the child gets, the more aggressive the parent. Indian people unfortunately are very practical in their approach to problems. You do whatever works best to fix a problem and deal with niceties later. It has always worked for us, so why fix what aint' broken. This behaviour and logic is unappreciated and even criticized in liberal societies like the West but then Kriya do not like in the West do they, they live in extremely conservative Illahabad. So when in Rome, think and act like the Romans or you will be killed by the mob.

He demanded, then cajoled, then pleaded, cried and when nothing worked he went back to his roots. She did not budge when she had a chance now he took that chance away. Do I agree with his actions" Definitely not because then I would be supporting domestic violence and abuse. But would I place myself in the situation that Pratigya has with a husband like Krishna and in a society like Illahabad? Nope because that would be illogical and not advisable. I would use a more passive form of rebellion as that is more strategic. You don't charge with the red cloth at the bull. You wait for it to come to you in a rage and then calmly turn away and evade the attack. The keywords being "calm" and "evade"

Anyways, I think I have said too much and I apologize if I have rambled on forever. Its just that I was not able to respond to individual posts for lack of time and now that I have some I thought I would put it all down at once.

Mog Hope.

👏Brilliant post! A must read

It is unrealistic that a man with Krishna's personality will put up with Prats's nonsensical behavior for this long.

She is indeed a red bull, she waves the red flag in front of her sasural as well. She is a girl with no strategy for executing her plan to teach him a lesson. She acts then thinks about it, which guarantees she will get into trouble. Krishna has stepped in to protect her from her sasural time and again. Had he been indifferent like some men do when their parents reprimand and insult their wives we would have seen a even more helpless and weak woman. She knows Krishna loves her and that is what gives her the strength to stand up against her sasural. Her treatment of Krishna should have woken him up to her real nature.

She showed no respect for herself or him when she aired their intimate life in public. Neither did she respect her sasural and parents by talking that way so publicly. Krishna is now acting out of desperation going back to what he knows best when he runs out of options.

Indian men are generally known for their big egos much like the Greek and Italian men. For a Indian who is also a Tacurse to let a woman walk all over him without reacting seems unrealisitic. He tries every little trick he knows to get her attention but then when he gets kicked to the curb he comes back fighting and goes for what he knows. After all we all live what we know from our life's experiences. The fact he explains that his father and brother beat their wives all the time as an example only goes to show he sees it as the normal thing to do with one's wife.

Prats has made no effort to understand Krishna. Had she taken the time to do so, she would have had some success in getting through to him and bring about an effective change. But she seems least concerned in making a go of her marriage any ways. She is more interested in teaching him something before she has learned a few lessons of her own.

👏