Alia Bhatt's New Bridal Wear Ad Sparks Controversy - Page 10

Originally posted by: monu_tan

We also had a term Upadhyayanis i.e female Teachers for female students. There was indeed a good level of education for girls and Girls would also have their Janeu done until Manu smriti subverted women position in society.

We had concept of Swayamvar as well.

I agree to everything else u said apart from Kanyadaan was done for girls were not educated. Doesn’t make sense to me.

Also Kanyadaan was not only to end the brahmcharya of a man but also to have the gotra transfer of girl from father’s to husband’s.

What you're saying is like saying Indian women were 100% equal since Indira Gandhi became prime Minister. We know that's not true.

There were a few women who were educated. Ie. exceptions. But the norm for men was education. There is a difference.

Concept of swayamvar was there. So was concept of abduction marriage.

Also, Chillii didn't say kanyadaan was done for uneducated girls. She said it was the crowning touch in a bachelor's life. No such concept existed for women because mostly, they didn't undergo education.

Agree the whole mentality/custom of kanya daan , kanya Bidaai and moving in to in-laws place is wrong !! 👎🏼

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

What you're saying is like saying Indian women were 100% equal since Indira Gandhi became prime Minister. We know that's not true.

There were a few women who were educated. Ie. exceptions. But the norm for men was education. There is a difference.

Concept of swayamvar was there. So was concept of abduction marriage.

Exactly. While every boy got an education, all girls did not. Only very few did and did it at their father's home. There was no concept of Gurukul for girls. Girls did not go asking for alms as brahmacharini like boys would at gurukul.

While all men were trained to be financially independent all women were not.

Very few women chose their own husband. Most women were denied that choice and had to cheerfully accept whom they were married to.

While women had Kanyaadaan as ritual men did not have Putradaan.

Yes women wore Janeu and studied at home of their fathers allowed them to.

Therein lies the difference

Originally posted by: monu_tan

We also had a term Upadhyayanis i.e female Teachers for female students. There was indeed a good level of education for girls and Girls would also have their Janeu done until Manu smriti subverted women position in society.

We had concept of Swayamvar as well.

I agree to everything else u said apart from Kanyadaan was done for girls were not educated. Doesn’t make sense to me.

Also Kanyadaan was not only to end the brahmcharya of a man but also to have the gotra transfer of girl from father’s to husband’s.

And what does Gotra transfer mean exactly.

That the girl is no longer part of her parents family. She has been donated to a man who has now taken her into his family.

She is now Parayadhan or parayi Lakshmi.

Isn't this wrong.

also. manusmriti is so hyped up, no one actually bothered with it, it was just one of the texts to refer to.

Hinduism has hundreds of scriptures. There is no single book to be referred like Quran or Bible or Torah or Guru Granth sahib.

It was Brahmanas (A set of scriptures elaborating rules for celebratory rituals) dharmasastras (set of scriptures for law and jurisprudence) Grihyasutras (set of scriptures for rights and duties of citizens) and agama sastra Sanhitas (set of scriptures for rules regarding worship and prayers) which were and still are reference texts for rules of conduct. There are several variations of them by the way. And no manusmriti is not part of these.

What a nonsensical and cheap ad it was.. Man! Bollydawood itself which has glorified ‘beti paraya dhan hoti hain’ is lecturing and belittling Hindu customs and traditions. 🤢 Kanyadaan, Rakshabandhan all are patriarchal, but practising polygamy, practising triple talaaq, and Nikah-halala are all progressive and smashing patriarchy!!! What shit! 🤢 The very industry that objectifies women in their films, web series and reality shows is preaching about “kanyamaan”.

Kanyadaan is a very misunderstood term, as are many others before it. It doesn’t mean giving away the kanya as a gift/daan or anything like that.. it means unconditional welcoming a groom into the bride’s family and vice versa.. It’s been devalued from its original meaning, demeaned and made fun of by all Hindi medium shows, movies, theatre. Shame on the marketing experts, advertisers of Manyavar for showing such a regressive mindset on such a custom. They should apologise and withdraw this shitty ad for hurting religious sentiments! 🤬

Originally posted by: Chiillii

And what does Gotra transfer mean exactly.

That the girl is no longer part of her parents family. She has been donated to a man who has now taken her into his family.

She is now Parayadhan or parayi Lakshmi.

Isn't this wrong.

Every Hindu has a Gotra or "lineage" which comes from mainly the Saptarishis. In other cases students would take their teacher's gotra etc, but originally its to determine a person's lineage.

Its advised not to get married within your Gotra in the scriptures because on a spiritual level, it would mean you're marrying within the family, which can cause health issues in the future generations.

So the Gotra transfer in short means the girl is joining the boy's Gotra. It won't change her own technically, but the child born will be given the father's Gotra. In areas in South India it is the other way around, the guy joining the girl's and children getting their mother's Gotra.

Its not about the girl being donated or parayadhan, those concepts are fairly new and tbh demeaning.

Its basically is like the wife taking up her husband's surname. In the longer run, it would basically mean no genetic disorders for the children.

Notice how for a girl the word is Kanya (meaning Virgin) but for the boy there is no such equivalent.

There is a proper word called Putri for girl so then why isn’t it called as ‘putridaan’ and why is it ‘kanyadaan’? Which means essentially the father is gifting the virginity of his girl to the boy. Sounds so contrived isn’t it? But it is what it is guys, no matter how much you kick and scream about it!

These seem like small things but only to those who miss the big picture.

Originally posted by: PranPriye

Message is good that a girl does not become 'parayi' after marriage. Execution is terrible. Kanya Daan is considered to be the biggest daan. Daan is one of the biggest acts which gets you punya to achieve moksha. It is not derogatory in any way. Also, why only Kanya mahaan? Why not beta mahaan too? Mahaanta depends on personality and not gender.

It isn't good to always find flaws with 1 religion. Do some research first.

Without knowing past story or logic behind rituals all they can do is show our rituals as some degrading way to humiliate women 🙄 bollywood has always been like this be in movies or ads or anything all they can do is to show hindu rituals in bad light

Kanyadaan isn't giving one's daughter in danaam. It's doing daanam for the daughter. So that she's free from the debts of her parents. If kanyadaan is such a big issue, why do most parents still pay fortunes to hold their daughter's wedding ceremony? Parents should simply tell their kids that they're not going to pay for their wedding, no?

This debasement of relationships that's being driven by neoliberal agents is a horrible thing. In Christianity, the father walks the bride down the isle and "hands her over" to the groom. Is that a patriarchal concept?

No. It signifies that she's now transforming from a daughter to a wife, while the groom transformes from a son to a man.

During kanyadaan, a woman goes from being a kanya to a stree. A kanya isn't a virgin as Western ideology dictates. There was a time when most men and women were virgins when they married. Times have changed today. That's another issue.

A kanya is an unmarried woman. Kumari is a virgin. This whole misconception arises from Western astrology where Virgo = the Virgin and in Hindi, Virgo is Kanya rashi.

It's ridiculous how certain people are reframing Hindu traditions. Rakshyabandhan is a sister/woman providing protection to her brother/man. In the Puranas, Indra's wife--Sachidevi--tied a thread of protection around Indra's wrist before he went on war with the asuras to protect him. Diwali is the worship of Laxmi, the sustainer. It's cherishing bonds between siblings (Bhai Dhoj). Dusserha is worshiping women in the form of Navadurga, Mother Nature.

It's all hip to shit on Hindu traditions these days without understanding it. Ask yourself, have you read any Hindu scripture apart from Bhagvata Geeta? Geeta is basically philosophy for dummies and most haven't even read that, including Hindus and Buddhists. Unlike Abrahamic traditions, there are thousands of texts in Hinduism--each owing to different philosophies, cosmology, rituals, sociology, anthropology, theism, agonostism, atheism, economics, politics, science, history, and mythology.

I don't expect uneducated people (in Indian traditions, philosophy, science, and literature) to grasp the complexities of its tradition. However, if you don't have knowledge about something, it's best to refrain from speaking about it.

Nobody talks about something they aren't aware of, or heard it on Fox News. It doesn't happen in professional life, in business, in science, in epistemology.

It's only in certain sections where people are quick to comment without having read anything or understood anything.

Western imperialism is a real thing today. If critical thinking isn't developed, you will be absorbing lots of materials glorifying it and undermining local, pagan cultures.

Originally posted by: SaayaOfKaaya

Kanyadaan isn't giving one's daughter in danaam. It's doing daanam for the daughter. So that she's free from the debts of her parents. If kanyadaan is such a big issue, why do most parents still pay fortunes to hold their daughter's wedding ceremony? Parents should simply tell their kids that they're not going to pay for their wedding, no?

This debasement of relationships that's being driven by neoliberal agents is a horrible thing. In Christianity, the father walks the bride down the isle and "hands her over" to the groom. Is that a patriarchal concept?

No. It signifies that she's now transforming from a daughter to a wife, while the groom transformes from a son to a man.

During kanyadaan, a woman goes from being a kanya to a stree. A kanya isn't a virgin as Western ideology dictates. There was a time when most men and women were virgins when they married. Times have changed today. That's another issue.

A kanya is an unmarried woman. Kumari is a virgin. This whole misconception arises from Western astrology where Virgo = the Virgin and in Hindi, Virgo is Kanya rashi.

It's ridiculous how certain people are reframing Hindu traditions. Rakshyabandhan is a sister/woman providing protection to her brother/man. In the Puranas, Indra's wife--Sachidevi--tied a thread of protection around Indra's wrist before he went on war with the asuras to protect him. Diwali is the worship of Laxmi, the sustainer. It's cherishing bonds between siblings (Bhai Dhoj). Dusserha is worshiping women in the form of Navadurga, Mother Nature.

It's all hip to shit on Hindu traditions these days without understanding it. Ask yourself, have you read any Hindu scripture apart from Bhagvata Geeta? Geeta is basically philosophy for dummies and most haven't even read that, including Hindus and Buddhists. Unlike Abrahamic traditions, there are thousands of texts in Hinduism--each owing to different philosophies, cosmology, rituals, sociology, anthropology, theism, agonostism, atheism, economics, politics, science, history, and mythology.

I don't expect uneducated people (in Indian traditions, philosophy, science, and literature) to grasp the complexities of its tradition. However, if you don't have knowledge about something, it's best to refrain from speaking about it.

Nobody talks about something they aren't aware of, or heard it on Fox News. It doesn't happen in professional life, in business, in science, in epistemology.

It's only in certain sections where people are quick to comment without having read anything or understood anything.

Western imperialism is a real thing today. If critical thinking isn't developed, you will be absorbing lots of materials glorifying it and undermining local, pagan cultures.

Kanya literally means ‘pure-virgin’ in Sanskrit, NOT in some western ideology like you are trying to make it out to be.

For your reference:

http://sanskritdictionary.com/?q=kanya

@Bold: Exactly! I suggest you first get the basic meanings and the ideologies behind it. Kanyadaan is literally mentioned as one of the 60 daans a man has to do to achieve moksha- some of the other precious things that made to the list are Gold, cow etc. Gaudaan, vastradaan, annadaan, kanyadaan etc. And amongst these things Kanyadaan was supposed to be the ‘mahadaan’.

It’s not something that’s done ‘for’ the kanya.Can you please quote the text from which you got this?

You have to stop being condescending like as if you are some kind of a learned authority on the subject. Stop presuming that the others who have an opinion on this have not done their due research. It’s one thing to state your take on the matter and it’s another thing attacking those who hold a different opinion than yours.

@blue: oh the irony! 😆