Sleet of Emotional Quivers on RadhaKrishn Love CC#10/DT Nt Pg#41 - Page 63

Mahabharata is a political saga of royal family. As is Ramayana and other Puranas.

Men and Women both involved in politics. As that was the only way they ensured their relevance and in many situations their happy existence.

It took Queen Elizabeth II to break the norm of male primogeniture in 2012.

Otherwise it was always the eldest physically able maLe child who attained power.

Only if there was no male heir was a woman able to gain the throne and only in very exceptional circumstances.

But women were political even if they didn't become kings themselves.

The most powerful position in any kingdom after the king was mother of next king (future queen mother).

King himself though powerful was limited to a great extent by the council of his ministers and commander in chief and chief religious authority in the kingdom. This was true not just for Indian history but Romans Greek Asian Kings Mongols and European Kings too

It was important for kings wives to have sons to draw their power not just from the king but also the council who would defer to the mother of future king. It was for the council members own selfish interests to ensure their and their children's continuity in the Royal court

Kaikeyi tries to subvert the system using Dasrath's two boons to get the throne for Bharat and get Rama exiled. That was not just for the sake of her son but as much for herself as being King's favourite in bedchamber doesn't mean any power. Mother of King does which is what Manthra tells her.

But playing politics to seek power is an option. Some people chose it some don't.

Kaikeyi chose to, Sumitra didnt. Sumitra could have if she wanted too, and at that point having two sons would have made a difference

Gandhari in her frustration of not being able to have a son actually hurts her own womb

Similarly Kunti and Madri also were in a race for supremacy. Where the finishing line was number of sons. Madri does make her desire to have supremacy over Kunti clear and Kunti was smart enough to realise it and nip her ambitions.

I am watching the Turkish royal drama Magnificent century based on Sultan Suleiman's reign and his concubine's rise to power as regent. It's the same story of politics and power mongering.

Unfortunately it's soapy and melodrama, there are no war or battle scenes.

But it actually does show what we call as petticoat politics.

Political strategies played out by women to gain power in world ruled by men.

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

I always felt he was their father. But was Dhaumya unavailable to Madri and Pandu? I mean couldn't Pandu Madri reach their themselves? Did they need Kunti's support?

To think of it, Pavan Dev (or at least his son Hanuman) reached out to Bheem, Indra approached Arjun multiple times, Dharma approached Yudhishtir during Yaksha Prashan, SuryaDev approached Karna multiple times but Ashwinis never visited the twins

Is it possible that the chief wife had to approve of the Niyoga of other wives? Kunti at first rejected the proposal of getting a child through Niyoga. Why did not Pandu approach Madri instead of reasoning with Kunti?

Originally posted by: vyapti

Is it possible that the chief wife had to approve of the Niyoga of other wives? Kunti at first rejected the proposal of getting a child through Niyoga. Why did not Pandu approach Madri instead of reasoning with Kunti?

I don't think so. Chief wife was an important post, but having kids was a decision of the girl herself. Only her master (husband, father in law, brother in law) had the rights to approve

Pandu probably wanted his son from Kunti because she was from mainland when compared to Madri whose kingdom was far off (just my personal opinion)

Coming back to MB

It was Krishna who costed Pandavas a lot of their allies. A lot of people who actually liked Pandavas and may have remained neutral but they moved to Duryodhan's side once they realised Pandavas have submitted themselves to Krishna's will.. This happened in the Rajasuya. No one liked Krishna getting the honor of chief guest and everyone was appalled with Krishna killing Shishupal. Many kings actually do walk out.

Pandavas in the war only had their immediate in laws fighting for them as they were bound by duty to do so. So only the biological father and brother of their brides came to the war with their personal army.

Their kingdoms on the other hand went with Duryodhan.

If you look at the list of kingdoms on Duryodhana's side you will find everyone there from west to east to North to south

And interesting part is Karna didn't do any significant Digvijaya. Everyone who fought for Duryodhan did so willingly.

The only army that was not in-laws by blood was Satyaki's army

Shalya I am sure was Duryodhan's father in law.

The guest obligation was just diplomatic refusal to Yudhishtir. And promise to sledge Karna was also just that diplomatic Yada Yada.

In MB I believe Janmejaya and Vajra and their descendents did a lot of redacting as the story got told by bards to completely remove those women and their sons who could have any parallel claim on the throne of Hastinapur and IP and even Mathura.

I don't think Lakshmana was Duryodhana's only son or that Upapandavas had no wives and children

Ramayana MB and Puranas that were orally recited were used as genealogical records to claim inheritance as well as legitimacy. In the absence of any inscriptions or written text it was very easy to do so.

Stop vaishayamapayana from talking about them meant ugrasgrava will not. If ugrasgrava will not others wouldn't either.

Originally posted by: Chiillii

This Indra and Surya charachter occur in the epic at multiple points

Surya provides Karna with Armor and earrings

Surya provides Yudhishtir with indefinete supply of food through Akshaya Patra to take care of his retinue during exile

Surya also provides a bodyguard kind of thing for Draupadi during her stay at Matsya who actually does intervene and save Draupadi in viratsabha

Indra comes down with his whole jing bang for Arjuna's naming ceremony

He fights with Arjuna and Krishna with his jing bang at Khandavavan

He then takes Arjuna to his kingdom and provides him with a lot of arsenal and money for the war.

He finally takes Karna's Armor and earrings

But we know that Indra and Surya of Vedas is Rain and Sun not men.

So most likely options are

1. They are actual kings from North beyond Himalayas who carried these titles

Or

2. Anonymous princes/kings who did not want to be identified hence used these titles to cover their identity. They could also be Rishis

By the way Shalya was not brother of Madri. He was maternal cousin. Madri's brother was Dyutimat. Dyutimat and his son Srenimat fought on the side of pandavas and died for them.

Madra was matrilineal most of the time, as was bahlika and Kaikeya. Daughter's sons inherited the throne. Kaikeyi's son Bharat got the throne. Bahlika inherited mom's kingdom

The parallel between Madra and Kekaya reminds me that Dasarath had to pay Vivaha-Shulka (the promise that her son would be the king) when he married Kaikeyi and Bhisma had to pay Vivaha-Shulka (loads of gifts) when he got Madri as a bride for Pandu. The social structure at those places was quite different from the area surrounding Ganga and Yamuna.

The parallel between Madra and Kekaya reminds me that Dasarath had to pay Vivaha-Shulka (the promise that her son would be the king) when he married Kaikeyi and Bhisma had to pay Vivaha-Shulka (loads of gifts) when he got Madri as a bride for Pandu. The social structure at those places was quite different from the area surrounding Ganga and Yamuna.

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Thanks Vyapti, you are correct Ofcourse. Probably the reason why Yudhishtir tried convincing Shalya to switch sides as his relationship with Duryodhan was not as obligatory probably on account of matrilineal social structure and bride purchase.

Shalya however had already fought alongside Karna and Duryodhan against Krishna in Mathura siege and also in Draupadi Swayamavr against the suitor Arjuna in disguise of Brahmana who had won.

Re: Shalya.

I don't know if there was actually a hospitality event or if it was a metaphor for "meine unka namak khaya hain."

Sorry in advance for any bad Hindi grammar 😛

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Waise abhi mujhe realize hua. Shanidev n Yamuna to Karna k Bhai behen hue na all being the children of SuryaDev.

Can this serial show Yamuna trying to avenge her brother like Lakshmana tried to avenge her father

I can expect this from Radha Krishna creatives

Even Ashwini Kumaras are brother of Karna. 🤣

If Shanta was the daughter of Dasaratha and Kaushalya then why did Dasharath had to resort to Niyoga to get the four sons?

Another interesting question:

We have always heard of queens getting sons through Niyoga. But it is possible that as a result of Niyoga a queen got a daughter. What happened to those daughters?

Originally posted by: vyapti

Even Ashwini Kumaras are brother of Karna. 🤣

Yes Karna was the Chachu of Nakul Sahdev 🤣