Sleet of Emotional Quivers on RadhaKrishn Love CC#10/DT Nt Pg#41 - Page 62

Niyoga as a process was apadharma process. Something that is acceptable only in the most dire circumstance.

Niyoga process mentioned for any charachter in Purana have only 2 instances where the man doing Niyoga was a relative...

Vyasa (BIL) for Ambika Ambalika and Rishyashringa (SIL) for Dasrath's wives (that was for sure Niyoga covered up as yagya Prasad).

Even these two were eminent Rishis who would never ever try to take over the kingdom or claim the child and it's inheritance.

All the other cases of Niyoga is non relative Rishi or a Deva. Eg. Vashishtha for Rama's ancestor or Dirghatamas for Bali's wife

Even those women who were widowed childless by Parshuram went to eminent non relative Brahmana for Niyoga.

There was no way any of the kings would ever be allowed to do Niyoga, be it Shalya or his friends. Same way if Satyavati had no Vyasa, Bahlika will never be called to do Niyoga. Infact remarriage was offered to Satyavati by Ugrayudha and Bhishma killed him to protect Hastinapur. Offer of Ugrayudha meant his and Satyavati's son would inherit the throne.

Widow remarriage did happen but Niyoga was not widow remarriage. It was a one time sperm donation where donor had to be somebody whose sperm had value but who would never take over the inheritance of child so born

So Madri's relative or family member would never be accepted.

Pandu and council of Hastinapur would only accept a Rishi or someone better than Rishi - a Deva.

Now this Deva / Indra could be either of two things.

1. Actual king from somewhere in Tajikistan who was at that point acknowledged as sovereign ruler of all earth. And everyone paid tributes to him ( other guys his council). Maybe he and Devas owed Durvasa and helped Kunti to oblige him

2. Anonymous guys whom Kunti approached and got the job done. While Durvasa may have given a blessing kind of thing that if you pray to a particular God you will get a son like him (not son from him) that Kunti converted to a propaganda with Pandu's and Durvasa's help that I summoned Deva and he gave me the child.

I am more inclined on the second as Kunti would have already worked this propaganda part in case Karna is ever found out to be her child. He was a sword hanging on her reputation so whole Durvasa Mantra thing was to be used to salvage her chastity. Durvasa may have been the one to suggest it to protect her out of pity on her plight and because she served him with devotion.

So Durvasa basically gave her a kind of birth certificate with bio father's name as a particular Deva and mother name as her, that Kunti filled in with a Deva name of her choice after niyoga

Since she had the birth certificates in her name, Madri could only get it of Kunti would give it to her

And Durvasa had enough clout for his testimonial to be accepted at face value by other Rishis and kings.

BTW it's interesting that neither Kunti nor Madri summon Agni.

Logic dictates that Madri should have summoned Agni or Surya or even Varuna as Ashwini are too far down the pole to be a good choice. Ashwini are not known for their power or prowess. Only for their beauty and medicinal skills.

But we have Draupadi as daughter of Agni marrying them.

Karna already had Surya as father, only Varuna got left out.

Is this Tazakistan ruler getting tributes from everywhere mentioned somewhere?

Was he kind of a Chakravarti Samrat? Would like to know more about it!

I always felt that Indra was the king of PIE Urehimat a place where these people (Indo Aryans) considered sacred or Devalok thinking that their gods reside there. The Steppes area maybe or ME or if there was no AIT/AMT then the exact place in India where PIEs stayed together. The ones who migrated did intermingle with other tribes and didn't maintain blood purity, hence the ones who still stayed at their area were considered superior most.

But I don't think Kunti summoned this guy. Because if at all he would have agreed, he would have wanted his son to be the crown prince and not some junior prince. She most probably invited some random guy and got her sanction through Durvasa

Coming to Madri, as you already mentioned, there have been relatives who came for Niyoga. Had Pandu agreed for it, they could have got some relatives (as you said from Bahlika or extended Madra family). As mentioned in Karna Parva the areas of erstwhile Shibbi dynasty were culturally and politically connected (not as strongly as Anga Banga Kalinga but then they had an external threat of Magadh giant next door, they couldn't have thought of acting in non team) and had close terms.

I didn't mean Shalya would have have Niyoga for Madri, obviously a brother wouldn't do for a sister, I meant he could have arranged someone like the kings/princes of Kekaya, Gandhar, Shibbi etc. If they wouldn't do then probably he could have requested some Rishi from his area. Maybe not a influential or powerful Rishi but a lesser known and simple Rishi and any Rishi could do Niyoga if approached for. I don't think Durvasa was so influencial that no one in India would follow him. Even if he was then doing a Niyoga wasn't something which needed approval from senior Sages.

If we are thinking that way, then the Clause could only be that Kunti had asked Durvasa to assure that Madri doesn't get a suitable Niyoga partner as a boon. That doesn't seem like the characteristic of Kunti to me, nor is Durvasa someone to accept such an illogical boon

P.S. I don't even think having more children actually made some one more important. Sumitra had two sons and we know what importance she held in Dashrath's life in comparison to Kaikeyi and Kaushalya who had one son each

@Chili

That Vidura was Yudhishtira's father is stated in text. So of course relatives could be summoned. If Vidura, a non-king and the son of a slave mother, could be asked to do the honors for the HEIR, Shalya, Dhaumya, etc. could be as well.

The problem with Durvasa giving birth certificate with prominent names is it happened several years before niyog. It's more likely the boon part is an interpolation.

If it is an interpolation, then Kunti vetoing a 2md niyog for Madri could only mean a power differential within the marriage.

This Indra and Surya charachter occur in the epic at multiple points

Surya provides Karna with Armor and earrings

Surya provides Yudhishtir with indefinete supply of food through Akshaya Patra to take care of his retinue during exile

Surya also provides a bodyguard kind of thing for Draupadi during her stay at Matsya who actually does intervene and save Draupadi in viratsabha

Indra comes down with his whole jing bang for Arjuna's naming ceremony

He fights with Arjuna and Krishna with his jing bang at Khandavavan

He then takes Arjuna to his kingdom and provides him with a lot of arsenal and money for the war.

He finally takes Karna's Armor and earrings

But we know that Indra and Surya of Vedas is Rain and Sun not men.

So most likely options are

1. They are actual kings from North beyond Himalayas who carried these titles

Or

2. Anonymous princes/kings who did not want to be identified hence used these titles to cover their identity. They could also be Rishis

By the way Shalya was not brother of Madri. He was maternal cousin. Madri's brother was Dyutimat. Dyutimat and his son Srenimat fought on the side of pandavas and died for them.

Madra was matrilineal most of the time, as was bahlika and Kaikeya. Daughter's sons inherited the throne. Kaikeyi's son Bharat got the throne. Bahlika inherited mom's kingdom

Shalya wasn't her brother? I thought both he and Dyutimat were her brothers. Latet Shalya and Dyutimat broke apart on kingdom issues like K&P

I always wonder why did they do so much of a drama regarding Shalya joining Kauravas side like the entire entrapping him and all.

I mean comeon. He was the father in law of Duryodhan and Karna wasn't closely related to the Pandavas. Now if as Chhiillli said Madra was a maternal kingdom then probably had the war not happened one of Karna's/Duryodhan's son could have inherited the Madra throne.

Why was a need to be in two minds or for that matter behave like he was trapped to support Kauravas.

Shalya seems a very complicated guy to me.

P.S. once I had written an OS regarding Duryodhan forgetting to send a formal request to Shalya for joining him when Sahdev reached out to him. Shalya getting angry an declaring that he would support Pandavas. Then Duryodhan doing that entire drama and hospitality just to win him back (manoing him)

I have read a theory (fan fiction) that Dhaumya was father of Nakula Sahadeva.

Originally posted by: vyapti

I have read a theory (fan fiction) that Dhaumya was father of Nakula Sahadeva.

Could be true. Dhaumya was Kunti's relative and a twin himself. So chances of him fathering twins are high.

Originally posted by: vyapti

I have read a theory (fan fiction) that Dhaumya was father of Nakula Sahadeva.

I always felt he was their father. But was Dhaumya unavailable to Madri and Pandu? I mean couldn't Pandu Madri reach their themselves? Did they need Kunti's support?

To think of it, Pavan Dev (or at least his son Hanuman) reached out to Bheem, Indra approached Arjun multiple times, Dharma approached Yudhishtir during Yaksha Prashan, SuryaDev approached Karna multiple times but Ashwinis never visited the twins

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Shalya wasn't her brother? I thought both he and Dyutimat were her brothers. Latet Shalya and Dyutimat broke apart on kingdom issues like K&P

I always wonder why did they do so much of a drama regarding Shalya joining Kauravas side like the entire entrapping him and all.

I mean comeon. He was the father in law of Duryodhan and Karna wasn't closely related to the Pandavas. Now if as Chhiillli said Madra was a maternal kingdom then probably had the war not happened one of Karna's/Duryodhan's son could have inherited the Madra throne.

Why was a need to be in two minds or for that matter behave like he was trapped to support Kauravas.

Shalya seems a very complicated guy to me.

P.S. once I had written an OS regarding Duryodhan forgetting to send a formal request to Shalya for joining him when Sahdev reached out to him. Shalya getting angry an declaring that he would support Pandavas. Then Duryodhan doing that entire drama and hospitality just to win him back (manoing him)

Anyone on Shalya? Why did they need to do so much of a drama to join Kauravas?

Is it possible that Shalya could be the biological father of Bheem so he wanted to join them.

@bold could my funny OS be actually the reason

Waise abhi mujhe realize hua. Shanidev n Yamuna to Karna k Bhai behen hue na all being the children of SuryaDev.

Can this serial show Yamuna trying to avenge her brother like Lakshmana tried to avenge her father

I can expect this from Radha Krishna creatives