*Season 2, Week 13* Analysis Thread - Page 36

@Shaavi: Thanks for appreciating my post! The whole point was that Sona and Dev balance each other out. Dev is puts too much emphasis on the physical togetherness (both in the cases of Sona and Soha) and Sona not enough, as she is more comfortable in the realm of ideals. Sona elevates Dev above the everyday and helps him see a future while Dev pulls Sona into the present and forces her to act on her feelings instead of just feeling them and keeping them to herself. That is why they still need each other, both as lovers and as parents.

Also, regarding your post on pg. 44, Asha said Sona was "righteous" not "self-righteous" and there is an important difference (also I am a stickler for words). Righteous has good connotations and just means that you stand for what is right. Self-righteous, as Laxmi pointed out is when you think only you can be right. Sona, in her basic nature, is very righteous. That is what challenged and impressed Dev in the first place (like when she turned down that other job to fulfill her commitment to Ishwari). If she does stray into the self-righteous territory sometimes (and she definitely does), it's because she has grown up believing in a black and white moral world, where the only opposition to right is wrong. This whole history with Khatri should be illuminating for her; sometimes two different approaches that are both 'right' in their place can still disagree and it doesn't automatically make one of them wrong.

@Payal: Not a strange thought at all. I think that is exactly where the Khatri angle is headed. The CVs never make the plot overly complicated -- it's usually the most obvious option from the clues they give, and the clues you pointed out steer us straight in the direction of Ishwari having given in to Khatri's demands in order to pay the rent. That box probably contains some undeniable proof of the act, otherwise Ishwari wouldn't be so worried as her kids wouldn't believe Khatri over her anyway.

@Laxmi: Thanks! I am so glad my post helped clarify Sona's perspective a little bit. She is close to my heart because of how much I related to her from day one of the show. A big part of that is how she tends to live in her own head a lot of the time, and people like that (yours truly included) are often scared to share their deepest feelings for fear that they will lose their perfection when they are translated into messy reality. As we saw, she needed coaxing from multiple people, including Elena, Dada, Asha and Dev himself to allow her feelings to manifest, but because she feels like her ideals were mocked in her marriage with Dev, she is even more protective of her inner-life now. The idealism that defined her love for Dev is on strict lock-down under hard shell of pragmatism and efficiency. That is what Dev means when he says she has become Dev 1.0. He knows Sona's idealism intimately, and he knows that her idealism is what awakened the long-dormant dreamer in him. He is desperately trying to determine whether Sona has merely put her inner dreamer to sleep or killed it.

@hanishank and Anamika: Thanks for appreciating the post!

@Harryfan011: In answer to your question about feminism vs. gender equality, I am putting a part of an old post here. I hope it clarifies this question!

Feminism as a movement is about bridging the gap between the conviction that everyone is created equal and the glaring inequality that is still present in human society. Of course we are all humanists, and no movement should be about putting others down to elevate oneself, but feminism is about changing a system that is built to favour men. Since we have never had an equal society, we don't really know what it looks like and people who think about these issues, and fight for universal rights, are figuring that out, step-by-step, every day. That's what makes varied experience so valuable... we need to know how different people think so we don't leave anyone out of our vision for an equal future.

So basically, feminism is the movement that works towards the ideal of gender equality.

Originally posted by: Samanalyse

This a common answer to both of your doubts, and a little expansion on my thoughts about Sona and Dev's love. I hope it makes sense.

I think that the central issue for Dev and Sona is that they perceived the idea of love very differently. For Sona, it was all about experiencing that pure feeling and acting selflessly for the happiness of your beloved. In her view, love transcended all other feelings, and didn't even require the two people to be together in a worldly sense; she was most invested in keeping the love pure no matter what. This is why she was willing to make a life partner out of Ritwick while feeling that pure love for Dev the rest of her days, and this, I believe, is a big part of why she left. Dev and her marriage tainted their love, making it a far cry from the transcendental experience she had envisioned. She asked herself, how can this be love if Dev and I can't understand each other without words?

For Dev, on the other hand, being in love was all about companionship and physical togetherness -- I don't mean only sexually, but going through life with your beloved by your side. His first priority in love was keeping the object of his love close by his side and enjoying how the relationship with them enriched all other relationships, and life in general. For him, love wasn't fulfilled unless that physical togetherness existed, and in turn cast its warm, strengthening glow on the respective partners' lives. He often says that Sona taught him what love was; this is what she taught him through experience. Because of his love for her and her love for him, he wanted to be a better person, he wanted to have better relationships with his family. That is why when she came to the farm house, he asks her -- how can this be love if it is tearing my family apart?

At their best, these two approaches balanced each other out perfectly. Sona's silent love soothed and healed, and floated Dev out of his burdensome, everyday existence. Dev's demonstrative love made Sona face her fears and step boldly into uncertain territory. When they were in their own comfort zones, neither of them were totally happy. Sona claimed to Elena that it was enough for her just to love Dev and experience that pure emotion, but she was miserable seeing him with Natasha. Dev showed through his actions how much he needed Sona's companionship, long before he confessed, but consciously insisted that he only wanted to do what was right for his family. He was restless until he introspected and gave those feelings a name. They needed each other.

But at their worst, these differences are what sowed the seeds of doubt and doomed their relationship. There is a difference between knowing somebody loves you, and trusting that love. That was what Sona hit upon yesterday. Dev knew that Sona loved him, which is precisely why he was so afraid of telling her about the infertility -- her idea of love was doing anything to make the other person happy, including leaving them to find someone who could fulfill their dreams. Dev's idea of love was being together. He knew that Sona loved him, but he didn't trust that she would love him the way he needed to be loved. Similarly, Sona knew that Dev loved her when he broke up with her the first time, but her idea of love was something transcendental, that beat all odds and couldn't be relinquished at any cost. So the issue once again became that Dev couldn't love her the way she wanted to be loved. And his doubt carried into their marriage, in turn sowing the seeds for her disappointment.

Dev and Sona loved each other, there is no doubt and they even knew the other loved them, but they didn't trust the other to love them in the way they wanted to be loved. Dev's love appears conditional to Sona because he didn't hold it above all other realities as an immutable truth; he answered other calls with equal fervour. Sona's love appears conditional to Dev because she didn't stay by his side and somewhere down the line, stopped giving him that emotional space he craved to make himself a better person. This difference was also reflected in their behaviour during separation and post-reunion. When apart, Sona idealises her love and lives by it, even in tragic form. As I have said before, she kept the space of Soha's father sacred to Dev. When Dev is actually in front of her, she is constantly frustrated by the fluctuating fulfillment and disappointment of this ideal, which is I think what makes her so emotionally on edge. Dev on the other hand, found physical companionship in other women in Sona's absence, but the moment was back in his radius, everyone else faded into the wallpaper.

That's because they do still need each other. Sona's ideal of love is enough to get her by, but not enough to give her happiness. She needs the exhilirating, frustrating, confusing reality of Dev's love. Similarly, Dev can get all the physical/emotional companionship and support he wants, but without a hint of Sona's idealism, he won't feel that transcendental love that lifts him out of his cynicism for the world and makes him dream again. In the end, they need to acknowledge trust comes not from love, but from communication. It's not as romantic, but the romance is never the part they had a problem with!

@Laxmi, thanks for your response regarding my confusion about self righteous. 😊

@Sam. Thanks for correcting me. Asha did say that Sonakshi was "Righteous", not self righteous. But it still makes me wonder. Does being Righteous give one such a moral ascendency that one does not feel that there is anything wrong in what they do. Even in that episode when she says that she loves Soha and doesn't need to prove anything to Dev, it is all nice and good. But what if Soha had a nightmare when Sonakshi was not there. She knows Dev cannot go in. Elena can go in, but when your child is ill or you are ill, you tend to want your parents close to you. You get a sort of comfort in that. Here Soha had a nightmare. How effective Elena would be in this case in Sonakshi's absence.

It is not like Sonakshi is in a place where if she did not work for 1 day they wouldn't have food on the table. Loving someone in the abstract to being there when they need the most is two different things. I understand that Sonakshi loved Dev, but I feel it was more in the abstract. Sorry if I failed in following the rules. It is just that is showing physical love wrong. I mean is that not a pursuit of happiness. Should everything be in idealistic level for one to achieve happiness.

Kind of wondering on "love" after last weeks episode.

Originally posted by: thedramaqueen

Shaavi, if I may...

The show isn't condemning physical vs transcendental love. In fact both Dev and Sona have a soulmate connection and Sam's write explains how they "access" love differently or as I would say speak different love languages.

Let me give you an example. On the birthday date. Sona was hurt. But she soon realised Dev was held back and he couldn't get out to be with her physically. That is enough for Sona. But it wasn't for dev. Dev felt differently. He needed sona to show her anger to him. Because he thought I was not there and she should have the right to show her reaction in some form.

Now Dev's need to have his loved ones near him doesn't manifest as a 24x7 physical presence either. He "delivers" that love in the shape of physical presence as well as acts of service and gifts. He just needs to have the peace of mind that his loved ones are accessible to him. This is where he is often misinterpreted as a selfish monopolising individual. He isn't. For example so long as he knew his lover is around him, he was happy to go off to work. He wanted to spend every waking moment with her but what was harder was when she was not accessible because she was with ritwick. And this is exactly his issue with jatin. In his view, jatin can block access to soha. And that is his problem. Those Skype calls are another example of his need to have that proximity to his lover. I think it partly comes from his father being snatched so mercilessly.

For Sona...it's the thought that matters. She has dida who reminisces about her love life with their grandfather. That is the kind of love language sona speaks. She made herself available to her lover after Neha's vidai. She elicited that response in him because she knew that those feelings need a channel to drain out. And she did the same with soha. I don't know why she stepped out. Dev and elena were left in charge. If she can't even go out for a bit then clearly soha needs to be in Bose house while she recovers. She wasn't gone for long. Coming back to Sona's love language, she too does acts of service but they aren't as tangible. She gave riya confidence when the Aayan meeting. It's immaterial that Dev knew about it or not. Or anyone appreciated it or not. For her , dev loves her and that is enough. Then she will serve (in a healthy way) anything or anyone that matters to Dev.

Did I even make sense

Thanks DQ. It all makes sense now. 😊

Sam

Originally posted by: Samanalyse

@Shaavi: Thanks for appreciating my post! The whole point was that Sona and Dev balance each other out. Dev is puts too much emphasis on the physical togetherness (both in the cases of Sona and Soha) and Sona not enough, as she is more comfortable in the realm of ideals. Sona elevates Dev above the everyday and helps him see a future while Dev pulls Sona into the present and forces her to act on her feelings instead of just feeling them and keeping them to herself. That is why they still need each other, both as lovers and as parents.

Also, regarding your post on pg. 44, Asha said Sona was "righteous" not "self-righteous" and there is an important difference (also I am a stickler for words). Righteous has good connotations and just means that you stand for what is right. Self-righteous, as Laxmi pointed out is when you think only you can be right. Sona, in her basic nature, is very righteous. That is what challenged and impressed Dev in the first place (like when she turned down that other job to fulfill her commitment to Ishwari). If she does stray into the self-righteous territory sometimes (and she definitely does), it's because she has grown up believing in a black and white moral world, where the only opposition to right is wrong. This whole history with Khatri should be illuminating for her; sometimes two different approaches that are both 'right' in their place can still disagree and it doesn't automatically make one of them wrong.

@Payal: Not a strange thought at all. I think that is exactly where the Khatri angle is headed. The CVs never make the plot overly complicated -- it's usually the most obvious option from the clues they give, and the clues you pointed out steer us straight in the direction of Ishwari having given in to Khatri's demands in order to pay the rent. That box probably contains some undeniable proof of the act, otherwise Ishwari wouldn't be so worried as her kids wouldn't believe Khatri over her anyway.

@Laxmi: Thanks! I am so glad my post helped clarify Sona's perspective a little bit. She is close to my heart because of how much I related to her from day one of the show. A big part of that is how she tends to live in her own head a lot of the time, and people like that (yours truly included) are often scared to share their deepest feelings for fear that they will lose their perfection when they are translated into messy reality. As we saw, she needed coaxing from multiple people, including Elena, Dada, Asha and Dev himself to allow her feelings to manifest, but because she feels like her ideals were mocked in her marriage with Dev, she is even more protective of her inner-life now. The idealism that defined her love for Dev is on strict lock-down under hard shell of pragmatism and efficiency. That is what Dev means when he says she has become Dev 1.0. He knows Sona's idealism intimately, and he knows that her idealism is what awakened the long-dormant dreamer in him. He is desperately trying to determine whether Sona has merely put her inner dreamer to sleep or killed it.

@hanishank and Anamika: Thanks for appreciating the post!

@Harryfan011: In answer to your question about feminism vs. gender equality, I am putting a part of an old post here. I hope it clarifies this question!

Feminism as a movement is about bridging the gap between the conviction that everyone is created equal and the glaring inequality that is still present in human society. Of course we are all humanists, and no movement should be about putting others down to elevate oneself, but feminism is about changing a system that is built to favour men. Since we have never had an equal society, we don't really know what it looks like and people who think about these issues, and fight for universal rights, are figuring that out, step-by-step, every day. That's what makes varied experience so valuable... we need to know how different people think so we don't leave anyone out of our vision for an equal future.

So basically, feminism is the movement that works towards the ideal of gender equality.

Hey all, it's that time of the week again! 😃

Originally posted by: thedramaqueen

Shaavi, if I may...

The show isn't condemning physical vs transcendental love. In fact both Dev and Sona have a soulmate connection and Sam's write explains how they "access" love differently or as I would say speak different love languages.

Let me give you an example. On the birthday date. Sona was hurt. But she soon realised Dev was held back and he couldn't get out to be with her physically. That is enough for Sona. But it wasn't for dev. Dev felt differently. He needed sona to show her anger to him. Because he thought I was not there and she should have the right to show her reaction in some form.

Now Dev's need to have his loved ones near him doesn't manifest as a 24x7 physical presence either. He "delivers" that love in the shape of physical presence as well as acts of service and gifts. He just needs to have the peace of mind that his loved ones are accessible to him. This is where he is often misinterpreted as a selfish monopolising individual. He isn't. For example so long as he knew his lover is around him, he was happy to go off to work. He wanted to spend every waking moment with her but what was harder was when she was not accessible because she was with ritwick. And this is exactly his issue with jatin. In his view, jatin can block access to soha. And that is his problem. Those Skype calls are another example of his need to have that proximity to his lover. I think it partly comes from his father being snatched so mercilessly.

For Sona...it's the thought that matters. She has dida who reminisces about her love life with their grandfather. That is the kind of love language sona speaks. She made herself available to her lover after Neha's vidai. She elicited that response in him because she knew that those feelings need a channel to drain out. And she did the same with soha. I don't know why she stepped out. Dev and elena were left in charge. If she can't even go out for a bit then clearly soha needs to be in Bose house while she recovers. She wasn't gone for long. Coming back to Sona's love language, she too does acts of service but they aren't as tangible. She gave riya confidence when the Aayan meeting. It's immaterial that Dev knew about it or not. Or anyone appreciated it or not. For her , dev loves her and that is enough. Then she will serve (in a healthy way) anything or anyone that matters to Dev.

Did I even make sense

wonderful... Should we copy this to new thread?